Wormholes

Poor idea.
In a few years you will revisit it and say the same things you said about the previous changes and why they were implemented
Or maybe sooner if someone else takes over your role..

Aye this is a cocern I actually had skype convo about this the other day. It was a smallish group who live in a c5. At the moment they have the chance to slam the wh shut in some ones face and take a fight on there terms or atleast close it so they can carry on doing what ever. But now if a big group connects they basically cant do anything till the bigger group closes it moves out of there tz. meaning they could well have a whole evening where they just have no chance to do anything. Its worth remembering people are normally more than happy to try something if they have a semi reasonable chance of it working but when you have literally no chance people wont attempt it.

yeah I wasn't indicting you specifically, you were the one poster who actually was able to nut up and call me out despite my mistake happening many pages ago

was just marveling at how poorly the rest of you all are fighting for your lives here

oh please

I didn't make my mistake for several pages and there you all were reciting your "wormhole players are the only people authorized to make changes" creed way before I even allowed myself the rope to make a mistake

why are you still pretending like you allowed yourself anything? you have obv never lived in wh space because the 3 cap thing is something NOONE who has lived in a c5/c5 as you claimed would ever make...even on a bad day...cause knowing mass limits is literally that important. You opened your mouth, spoke bullshit, got called on it, spoke more bullshit, got proven you are one more troll in the world. The only allowing that MIGHT have occured is you allowing yourself to troll instead of taking game mechanic changes serious since those mechanics are going to determine how a significant portion of the game works. There is a time for fun and games and there is a time to be serious, patches are def part of the time to be serious.

and yet it took you 9 pages to point out my mistake

it's almost like the entire wormhole community is shockingly bad at communication

what do you care, you said yourself you were leaving either the game or wormhole space, I forget which

I've made general comments to this effect in prior pages but I appreciate you illuminating some of the finer points at stake here. I'll lay this out clearly for the k-space visitors. You have, lets say, a ~3 bil mass WH connecting two C5/6 entities. So if you're going on offense that's only 3 caps, and they will collapse the hole. There won't be anymore reinforcements after that unless you've been seeding caps, which can take days or weeks depending on how hard you try.

The defenders can have many more caps and they normally do. So there already aren't many entities that will go "all in" for a fight barring special circumstances. So its already disadvantageous to go on the offensive in the vast majority of cases. "Mass spew" makes the imbalance worse because on top of being at a cap disadvantage, you can no longer dictate range to your support. Whereas your opponent can form up any way they want to maximize their tactical options. This change was at one point so bad that you could spawn literally out of rep range. As it is its now only out of refit range but its still ridiculous to make going on the offensive even more disadvantageous.

If you choose only a limited engagement with sub-caps and send only a triage cap through for support, the triage cap could spawn >11 km away from jump range and safety. The defenders will have bump machariels/panthers/phoons on grid almost for sure + webs. Or they could warp a cap to 0 on a fleeted frig sitting on the triage cap and bump it ******* far from the hole and it is ******* dead.

So your triage cap dies randomly because of this stupid mechanic overlaying the old mechanics. But actually it won't because as corby has correctly mentioned, you can simply not jump caps through. But if you're not jumping caps through its suicide to send anything else, and you're left with a Mexican standoff on either side of the hole. Its great content trust me, right up there with station camping afk dudes.

Theorycrafting at this point yes and there will be exceptional cases, but eve is an old game... most folks who've played awhile with the existing mechanics can say with pretty good accuracy that if X change is implented then most players in most cases will respond with Y and Z etc.

What makes this change so bad is the strong likelihood of even more blueballing than there is now, with even more players choosing not to fight because they don't want the mechanics to **** them over. It makes finding the ever illusive "fair/close fight" that much harder to find, cuz straight up, there will be less fights period. More ganks, to be sure, but less "good" fights.



I've harped on this problem several times as well in that small groups are going to lose hole control because of "mass spew". It doesn't matter if the rolling ships "could possibly" be lost because they spawn too far from the hole. The worst case will be assumed and treated as if it will always happen, like stargates, because the most efficient combat rolling ships are simply too expensive for small groups to just throw away to randomness.

"Mass spew" has serious implications for big groups vs. small groups. Small groups are just going to get flat out ganked more because they're losing hole control with this change.



Yeah this is a typical response to a more open battlefield where the bigger blob that cannot be split so easily any longer is going to come out on top a la nullsec. I expect more of this, unfortunately. Nobody wants to be on the losing side of ganks. Taken to the extreme, blob building because of this change is analogous to the blue doughnut coming to w-space. It won't get that far but things are headed in that direction, the wrong direction. Nobody wants any of this even if they don't realize it already themselves.

I think CCP just needs to acknowledge that they've left w-space alone for too long and they no longer truly understand it as they once did. Similar to the POS code. I could understand that and overlook a rollback on this change.

I would encourage an about-face to make combat rolling easier in lower class wormholes and upping the mass capacity on the random holes connecting C5/6 and C5/6 with null/low to allow more caps through for a fight (won't affect rage rolling statics).

In exchange for easier combat rolling (or rolling generally) I would like to see auto-spawning of at least one static or random hole keeping every w-space system connected to somewhere in New Eden at all times. I want to completely eliminate crashing all the holes to farm in safety. But in any case roll back "mass spew". Its already DOA.

They would have clearly discussed this at length in private and i am sure Corbexx has had a lot of time and effort putting the views forward to CCP Fozzie and other CSM's that we will never know about.

After thinking a bit more about it, I think this change is intentionally made to effectively kill rage-rolling. Sure, many people will still do it, but less often, and not so long because it's more tedious, and a lot of people will probably completely give up on it.

So, assuming this is correct, why do they do it? My guess: To break up the big groups in w-space (those with ~30+ players). Which, incidentally, are the groups which provide 90% of the complaints here.

The bigger groups are those which do almost all of the rage-rolling. What if this activity becomes unfeasible? There will be a chronic lack of content for those 30 or 50 or 100 people crammed into the same hole. They will get terribly, terribly bored.

What happens then? Corps will break apart, shrink, failscade because of inner tensions (that is, even more than normal).

But is that bad? People have to go somewhere. Sure, some will quit. But not so many, and only those who had become too inert and crusty anyway to do anything new. That type of player who still logs in for a pvp ping but logs shortly after the fight and hasn't scanned a single wormhole himself in over a year. Every old wh corp is full of them.

No, most players will move somewhere else in EVE. Those for whom it was all about being part of an impressive, famous big group will go (back) to Null. But many who are really into w-space will regroup in smaller entities. And because so many people do that – are forced to do it – it might once again be possible to find true small-gang pvp in our space. More, smaller groups scattered around means also less need for rage-rolling to get content.

Well, at least that is how I make sense of it. And I think it might well work out.

Next on the designer's list: Make escalation farming with maximum-efficient skeleton crews unfeasible (e.g. add more work so using alts does not work so well) and limit/eliminate site regeneration to disrupt isk generation for big groups. If rage-rolling for pvp content becomes too tedious, and rolling for new pve sites too, and income from a single system supports only a few players, then the big groups are starved to death and will break up into smaller groups, thus finally reversing the long-time trend that has been choking w-space to a slow death.