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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#21 - 2014-06-16 16:27:01 UTC
Flying along a trade route without backup is always a risk. Had my heart pumping when I flew my alt through Aufay with 750mil in the hold. Good thing the tank of the new DSTs isn't easily estimated, makes a gank attempt riskier, thus less likely.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Christina Project
Screaming Head in a Box.
#22 - 2014-06-16 16:27:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Christina Project
Benny Ohu wrote:
Christina Project wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:
Sounds like somebody was in Aufray last night.. and didn't have fun party sexy time.

How would you know where it happened?

Most suicide gankers are just chestbeating carebears hiding inside the station
until they undock in a group, strike and vanish again.

that's due to -10 sec and the 15-minute criminal timer. duh.

Nope.

-10 does not prevent anybody from bouncing around visibly on grids.

Which would change the public perception people have by a huge margin!
Forcing gankers to be in space and actually having to do some work,
would make people actually fight them and go after them.

I can tell. This works. But when people hide in station all day
and are only around for half a minute, then there's nothing that can be done to fight them.

The fact that these people hide in station all day,
means that that's the only or best choice they think they have,
because everything else would be too hard or too dangerous.

Just look at it ... these people have less gameplay than afk miners.


The GCC does not work as excuse to hide the pod in station either,
but at least it makes sense, because there's not much else to do anyway.

Except maybe bouncing around the grid for 15min to show off how blinky you are.


Get your facts straight. GCC is one thing, but being -10 is a completely different one
and does not prevent anybody from being outside in a ganking ship ... ever.

It's just too hard for these chestbeating carebears to actually play the game.


I can't stress this enough: AFK Miners have more gamplay than them,
because these are at least in space all day.

[i]"Don't look into another human's bowl to see how much he has ... ... look into his bowl to see if he has enough !" - Sol[/i]
Christina Project
Screaming Head in a Box.
#23 - 2014-06-16 16:29:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Christina Project
Noragli wrote:
The problem is that -10 characters or other low sec status characters can operate ships and attack people in high security space.

Nope.

The problem is that these people hide in station so much that people rightfully have the feeling
that they can't do anything about it ... because they can't.

These cowards hide, have neutral alts finding targets,
undock, strike, dock up again.

The whole ganking process doesn't take even a minute.


The issue is NOT that they can do what they do,
the issue is that they do it in the poorest possible way,
negatively affecting the whole profession.


What CCP needs to remove is that people can play this way,
because they shouldn't. Being outlaw in highsec should be dangerous.

Well ... it is ... but not for the easy-mode carebear gankers.

[i]"Don't look into another human's bowl to see how much he has ... ... look into his bowl to see if he has enough !" - Sol[/i]
BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
#24 - 2014-06-16 16:30:21 UTC
Noragli wrote:
Many of those ganked and pod killed were in empty freighters, or shuttles, or pretty much any ship is targetted just for the sake of getting a kill and hoping to kill a pod full of implants.

I wonder how many cancel their subscription.


Maybe if they were sitting at their keyboards instead of auto piloting, they would have said freighters and pods.

Mine smart. Mine safe. Purchase your mining permit today...... www.minerbumping.com
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#25 - 2014-06-16 16:31:23 UTC
Noragli wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Noragli wrote:
When you let one group of players mercilessly grief another set, you lose players.

Blowing up a player's spaceship in a game about blowing up spaceships isn't griefing.


EVE isn't only about blowing up player spaceships. If CCP ever forgets that, subs will plummit.



yeah now eve is about that and blowing up outpost. so its not only spaceships any longer, its going to include outpost and star gates.. eve is about a time and money sink.


having assets is against the law!
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#26 - 2014-06-16 16:32:42 UTC
Noragli wrote:
I want to point out the kills made by the character loyalanon and his buddies, specifically many of the kills made in Aufay (0.5) on 14th june. You can find them on eve-kill.net

I am not linking direct to the killboard, but his group (mostly his corporation "The Conference Elite" and a few others, suicide ganked freighters, many of them empty or carrying nothing of value. They also targetted other ships of value where they could cause a large isk loss to the player, even if they were certain to get nothing out of it for themselves.

It used to be just the freighters carrying too high value cargo that were targetted, but now, even empty ships are targetted.

I personally don't care if changes are made to fix this or not. It doesn't affect me directly, I do not use frieghters or other high value ships. This is just an observation I made, a line was crossed when they started targetting empty ships just for the sake of it. Is it time for change?


The Conference Elite is I believe a member of The CODE/ James 315. It may have been one of their events again. The last one lit up the star map. One of your best defence measures is knowledge and intelligence. You should regularly read blogs such as The Mittani and the minerbumping site to know when events are happening. Otherwise you will get burnt.
Vyl Vit
#27 - 2014-06-16 16:33:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Vyl Vit
Serene Repose wrote:
A game within a game. Worship me. I am the Freighter Goddess. Anyone claiming sovereignty over the souls of astro-truckers is a charlatan and a knave. (Some commoner called James seems to have grown too big for his broom closet.)

Send me everything all at once TWICE and I'll ensure you're never again bothered as you keep it between the ditches, slammin' those gears down the highway of life.

Just to show yah how much I love yah:

Girl On The Billboard

Six Days On The Road

Drivin' My Life Away

Lookin' At The World Through A Windshield


Always to the heart of the matter. Just another mothertrucker, eh?

Suicide ganking empty freighters, for what it is supposed to cost, should provide a substantial loss - in security standing, insurance payout...this list gets rather DRAB. Truth is, there's no law and order in these SOVEREIGN SYSTEMS. There's cops flying around. But, you rob someone of their livelihood, the cops blow up your ship. You just buy another one at the cops' very own SOVEREIGN STATION, go out and do it again. The penalty for littering is more severe. J-walking you have a possibility of doing some serious jail time (for the money the crime nets you.)

But, in this incongruent, slapdash totally disorganized concept of SYSTEM SOVEREIGNTY, law and order (as I've said ad nauseum) which ALLOWS high technology to EXIST in the FIRST PLACE, just doesn't exist in this infantile, abysmal excuse for game mechanics. To put what LITTLE curbs on this ganking behavior they have CCP has acknowledged it to be a problem which must be dealt with. However, their remedies are sure to provide NO solution. (Get out the bibs and warm up the bottles. It's lunchtime in Iceland.)

Everyone who posts disagreement with what I just said, is a ganker who wants things to stay just as they are...for the EASY MONEY. So, gankers, go ahead and POST. There you go. Feel better?

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Tilly Delnero
Doomheim
#28 - 2014-06-16 16:34:07 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Flying along a trade route without backup is always a risk. Had my heart pumping when I flew my alt through Aufay with 750mil in the hold. Good thing the tank of the new DSTs isn't easily estimated, makes a gank attempt riskier, thus less likely.

What surprised me was the amount of freighter pilots still autopiloting through Aufay with billions in the hold without checking the map stats... I mean seriously, are people STILL that lazy and carefree with their ISK?

Let me revise that, I was surprised by the number of freighter pilots autopiloting through any system with billions in the hold... no hold on...

Why the HELL are people still using autopilot in billion-ISK hulls anyway? CCP please remove autopilot, it is a dumb mechanic and a crutch for the mentally ******** and lazy - and I'm not just talking about the suicide gankers! Lol

/ducks
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2014-06-16 16:34:35 UTC
There are ways to stop them, crying in the forums isn't one of them, on the contrary it only encourages.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#30 - 2014-06-16 16:36:50 UTC
Ah, I believe I just posted in another thread about these kinds of posts. This game will bleed subs if it is not changed to suit a subset of players and will die. Or not. So far every prediction over the last however many years this crusty old game has been around has failed to come true and I doubt many future predictions will bear fruit.

In short, EvE rewards a certain type of player, while I am not necessarily that type of player, I know the kind they like: resourceful, cunning and cautious. You do realize the people who gank had to work around an already built in gank protection system. Player ingenuity. Now its up to the prey to evolve and adapt in the arms race. There are many tools at ones disposal to combat and elude their tormentors. If one refuses to learn them and use them and instead consistently loses their assets and quits, EvE will not care. Someone always stands to profit in the absence of competition.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-06-16 16:41:59 UTC
Noragli wrote:
They also targetted other ships of value where they could cause a large isk loss to the player, even if they were certain to get nothing out of it for themselves.
I'm not a suicide ganking expert, but I hear the rule of thumb is never carry >1B in a freighter.

That means the suicidal ships are worth less than 50% of 1B, so <500M.


Now, if the freighter is empty, it's worth blowing up either:

1) for the LULZ

or

2) because someone is gonna gain >500M


Who could that be??? Cui prodest???

Yup, freighter builders!

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#32 - 2014-06-16 16:51:07 UTC
This type of griefing has been going on for some time, and will only get worse, given how much CCP celebrates this behaviour. To suicide gank a freighter with cargo for a potential gain can be considered "justified".

Of course, an empty freighter attacked is done for one reason only, to cause tears.
But that is just hunky-dory according to CCP, so it will continue.
And given how Crius is trying to force freighter pilots on longer and longer hauling runs, freighter ganking will grow.

Truly a brilliant design decision.
hedge betts Shiyurida
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#33 - 2014-06-16 16:51:46 UTC
Noragli wrote:
I want to point out the kills made by the character loyalanon and his buddies, specifically many of the kills made in Aufay (0.5) on 14th june. You can find them on eve-kill.net

I am not linking direct to the killboard, but his group (mostly his corporation "The Conference Elite" and a few others, suicide ganked freighters, many of them empty or carrying nothing of value. They also targetted other ships of value where they could cause a large isk loss to the player, even if they were certain to get nothing out of it for themselves.

It used to be just the freighters carrying too high value cargo that were targetted, but now, even empty ships are targetted.

I personally don't care if changes are made to fix this or not. It doesn't affect me directly, I do not use frieghters or other high value ships. This is just an observation I made, a line was crossed when they started targetting empty ships just for the sake of it. Is it time for change?



Get rid of killboards 60% of ganking would stop

Pog mo thoin

Gryphon Infinite
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2014-06-16 16:52:28 UTC
Rule 1 of Eve : Fly what you can afford to lose. Hi-Sec is already safe enough as is.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2014-06-16 16:52:33 UTC
Noragli wrote:
...a line was crossed when they started targetting empty ships just for the sake of it. Is it time for change?


Nope. No line was crossed, this is not griefing, welcome to EVE.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2014-06-16 16:53:29 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

Of course, an empty freighter attacked is done for one reason only, to cause tears.


Clearly, this game isn't for you then, especially if you can't think of any other reason to gank a freighter, empty or otherwise.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2014-06-16 16:57:47 UTC
Christina Project wrote:
Nope.

The problem is that these people hide in station so much that people rightfully have the feeling
that they can't do anything about it ... because they can't.
These cowards hide, have neutral alts finding targets,
undock, strike, dock up again.
The whole ganking process doesn't take even a minute.
The issue is NOT that they can do what they do,
the issue is that they do it in the poorest possible way,
negatively affecting the whole profession.
What CCP needs to remove is that people can play this way,
because they shouldn't. Being outlaw in highsec should be dangerous.
Well ... it is ... but not for the easy-mode carebear gankers.

due to previous nerfs to the ganking playstyle, gankers are forced to wait in stations for long periods of time. that is, they're forced not to play the game. there's no reason to undock at -10 until a target is found. gankers use alts like everyone else in space. gankers adapt to the game and find the most efficient way to conduct their business. if certain anti-tanked freighter pilots would do the same there'd be a lot less whining in gd

Noragli wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Noragli wrote:
Simple and obvious fix to a serious problem.

what problem? you haven't established the existence of any 'problem'.


The problem is that -10 characters or other low sec status characters can operate ships and attack people in high security space.

why is that a problem?
Noragli
Doomheim
#38 - 2014-06-16 17:01:10 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Christina Project wrote:
Nope.

The problem is that these people hide in station so much that people rightfully have the feeling
that they can't do anything about it ... because they can't.
These cowards hide, have neutral alts finding targets,
undock, strike, dock up again.
The whole ganking process doesn't take even a minute.
The issue is NOT that they can do what they do,
the issue is that they do it in the poorest possible way,
negatively affecting the whole profession.
What CCP needs to remove is that people can play this way,
because they shouldn't. Being outlaw in highsec should be dangerous.
Well ... it is ... but not for the easy-mode carebear gankers.

due to previous nerfs to the ganking playstyle, gankers are forced to wait in stations for long periods of time. that is, they're forced not to play the game. there's no reason to undock at -10 until a target is found. gankers use alts like everyone else in space. gankers adapt to the game and find the most efficient way to conduct their business. if certain anti-tanked freighter pilots would do the same there'd be a lot less whining in gd

Noragli wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Noragli wrote:
Simple and obvious fix to a serious problem.

what problem? you haven't established the existence of any 'problem'.


The problem is that -10 characters or other low sec status characters can operate ships and attack people in high security space.

why is that a problem?


Negging your security for ganking was supposed to be a deterrant but for most gankers it makes no difference at all. They continue to operate in high security space with -10 security status. It's not a detterant.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#39 - 2014-06-16 17:02:09 UTC
Noragli wrote:
Many of those ganked and pod killed were in empty freighters, or shuttles, or pretty much any ship is targetted just for the sake of getting a kill and hoping to kill a pod full of implants.

I wonder how many cancel their subscription.


I wonder who cares? They shouldn't have been autopiloting.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#40 - 2014-06-16 17:05:33 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Noragli wrote:
The problem is that -10 characters or other low sec status characters can operate ships and attack people in high security space.

When a character who has aggressed concord undocks or boards a ship, his ship is barred from warping. If concord can do that, then there is no reason the same can't be applied to an outlaw who undocks or boards a ship in high security space. He should be barred from warping or activating weapons.

Ganking will still be possible, but it won't be so ridiculously easy as it is now.

Quit whining and do something about it. Those players are already -10, as you said, but they hadn't done anything up to that point that hasn't already been punished (either be sec status loss or by CONCORD taking out their ship). They did the crime, and got punished for it. Finite crime does not beget infinite punishment.

If they're such a problem, get a Tornado, set it up for insta-locking, and camp them into their station. Catalysts (especially gank-fit Catalysts) aren't that difficult to kill.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

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