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[Rubicon 1.1] Mobile Micro Jump Unit and Mobile Scan Inhibitor

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darius mclever
#181 - 2014-01-06 23:44:40 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Also bastion should prevent use of the MMJD for obvious reasons.


so far ... ships with active cynos are allowed to use it. so... at the current logic it seems they should be allowed it.
aetherguy881
Grouchy Rediculous Ugly Man Pigs
#182 - 2014-01-06 23:48:43 UTC
Theon Severasse wrote:
Both of these things need to be stopped from being able to anchor in FW plexes, since they will essentially stop a lot of PvP from happening - who is seriously going to enter an FW plex that is scan cloaked unless they are in a blob?


FW plexes need fixed anyway... If this is going to be introduced and allowed in FW plexes, there need to be penalties to using it. Like no cloaking and the user can't utilize the Dscan.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#183 - 2014-01-06 23:49:38 UTC
darius mclever wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Also bastion should prevent use of the MMJD for obvious reasons.


so far ... ships with active cynos are allowed to use it. so... at the current logic it seems they should be allowed it.

Well they shouldn't.
Nor should ships in bastion.
Nor should cloaked ships.
Nor should HICs with bubble or infinipoint active.

And the way to stop the MMJD from working should be, as suggested above, scramming it.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#184 - 2014-01-06 23:52:01 UTC
just a thought:
wouldn't it be more interesting if the MMJD would define the direction where the ship will jump? Like a micro acceleration gate.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Tertius Tallang
Ex Inanimento Prodeo
#185 - 2014-01-06 23:52:11 UTC
Actually, how about "any type of targeted warp disruption used on the MMJD disables the structure for the duration"? It still requires you to have two points or two tackling ships, but it doesn't make non-scrams completely useless for counteracting it.
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#186 - 2014-01-06 23:56:16 UTC
1Robert McNamara1 wrote:
MSI + Bubble = Nuli-T3 only effective combat probing platform.


Yep, nice job making one shiptype the only feasible option for a role.

Sandbox.

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#187 - 2014-01-06 23:56:38 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
just a thought:
wouldn't it be more interesting if the MMJD would define the direction where the ship will jump? Like a micro acceleration gate.

This is a far, far more feasible and useful idea.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#188 - 2014-01-06 23:57:08 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Vatek wrote:
If a shiny new thing is far enough along in development to get an F&ID thread they will never ever scrap it so I look forward to having these new deployables forced on us with few (if any) changes.


With 2-3x the anchoring time and 10-20% the hp, the MMJD thing would be pretty balanced.


Yeah, with 3 times the anchoring time and 10% the ehp it will only require 41 dps to kill it before it anchors, making it pretty balanced*


*useless in every use case
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#189 - 2014-01-07 00:04:00 UTC
darius mclever wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Also bastion should prevent use of the MMJD for obvious reasons.


so far ... ships with active cynos are allowed to use it. so... at the current logic it seems they should be allowed it.


I'm wondering to myself exactly which direction those ships will be propelled in?
darius mclever
#190 - 2014-01-07 00:06:58 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
darius mclever wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Also bastion should prevent use of the MMJD for obvious reasons.


so far ... ships with active cynos are allowed to use it. so... at the current logic it seems they should be allowed it.


I'm wondering to myself exactly which direction those ships will be propelled in?


where their nose points to?
Vivian Marcos
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#191 - 2014-01-07 00:10:18 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:



You say their are 3 belts in that direction the targets could be at. If there weren't MSI's there, there would still be 3 belts with a barge on D towards them. It would still require you to warp to each one, or to a planet and scan each of them. Now if your gate was close enough to have distingished the 3 belts before hand then ya, that stinks.

Also, i dont see how the MSI helps the hostil to get away. If it wasnt there then what? you scan his ship down (which is HARDER to do as possibly implied by fozzie) and he warps before you even land because he sees your probes? If he is a hostile in your system, aka you pretty much know who he is as he should be one of the few neuts in the system. Then you know his most probable ship and if he hotdrops. I suppose what I am trying to say is I dont quite understand how this mobile structure helps him so much, if he warps away from it as you warp to it then you can see him on D. If he is cloaked then nothin matters.

Hey sky, get back to work! U 2 cips....
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#192 - 2014-01-07 00:13:29 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Add-on: Do you really want to make the extremely expensive to fit Expanded Probe Launcher mandatory for intel gathering? Because that's what I'm getting here: an implication that solo pilots, or small gangs who cannot afford to sacrifice one of their pilots to tow around a scanning ship can... well... get dunked.


yes I agree.

But even with one or more dedicated prober... It's not relevant:

I will fill my ratting system with 100 MSI. You enter and want to find me. You'll have to probe and warp on grid to see. Reaping this 100 times (in the meantime of course I see you and your probes on MY d-scan). How long will be? Let's see 10 seconds to scan + 20 seconds to warp. 30 seonds repeated 100 times.

So will be something:

1. time consuming and boring like hell
2. uneffective
3. Even if you success (after 1-2 hours of pure boredom) in finding somoene will be most likely a trap and you'll run in a blob

Go figure...

People will give up even only to try.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#193 - 2014-01-07 00:19:28 UTC
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Vatek wrote:
If a shiny new thing is far enough along in development to get an F&ID thread they will never ever scrap it so I look forward to having these new deployables forced on us with few (if any) changes.


With 2-3x the anchoring time and 10-20% the hp, the MMJD thing would be pretty balanced.


Yeah, with 3 times the anchoring time and 10% the ehp it will only require 41 dps to kill it before it anchors, making it pretty balanced*


*useless in every use case


The depot is far from useless, and it requires only 62 dps to reinforce, and it requires unfitting your lowslots to escape.

(62 dps happens to be smack in the middle of the range I gave)
Vivian Marcos
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#194 - 2014-01-07 00:20:32 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Add-on: Do you really want to make the extremely expensive to fit Expanded Probe Launcher mandatory for intel gathering? Because that's what I'm getting here: an implication that solo pilots, or small gangs who cannot afford to sacrifice one of their pilots to tow around a scanning ship can... well... get dunked.


yes I agree.

But even with one or more dedicated prober... It's not relevant:

I will fill my ratting system with 100 MSI. You enter and want to find me. You'll have to probe and warp on grid to see. Reaping this 100 times (in the meantime of course I see you and your probes on MY d-scan). How long will be? Let's see 10 seconds to scan + 20 seconds to warp. 30 seonds repeated 100 times.

So will be something:

1. time consuming and boring like hell
2. uneffective
3. Even if you success (after 1-2 hours of pure boredom) in finding somoene will be most likely a trap and you'll run in a blob

Go figure...

People will give up even only to try.




so you wait on field ratting until something pops up on d? you dont warp as soon as a hostile enters system proabably from a gate off D scan and cloaked up? or who hit cloak in the 4 secs it takes to be able to re-scan? I have seen more so where people tend to warp when you enter system or shortly after :(

Hey sky, get back to work! U 2 cips....
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#195 - 2014-01-07 00:20:53 UTC
darius mclever wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Also bastion should prevent use of the MMJD for obvious reasons.


so far ... ships with active cynos are allowed to use it. so... at the current logic it seems they should be allowed it.


Ships in bastion are immune to scrams.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#196 - 2014-01-07 00:21:29 UTC
Vivian Marcos wrote:
I suppose what I am trying to say is I dont quite understand how this mobile structure helps him so much, if he warps away from it as you warp to it then you can see him on D. If he is cloaked then nothin matters.


The difference is that actually you don't need to have a prober to find people in belt, celestials, anomalies, FW plexes and missions. With MSI you will need it. Or you'll have to simple waprs around randomly.

It's a major nerf to gameplay.
Sid Crash
#197 - 2014-01-07 00:21:29 UTC
Stop making more MJD related stuff, it's just another weird funky thing that'll be impossible to balance once ppl start using it in ways you never thought possible.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#198 - 2014-01-07 00:26:05 UTC
Sid Crash wrote:
Stop making more MJD related stuff, it's just another weird funky thing that'll be impossible to balance once ppl start using it in ways you never thought possible.


MJDs are the Eve equivalent to pounce, dash, teleport, and other traditional Dungeons and Dragons style gameplay. "I cast my magic missile at the darkness!"

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#199 - 2014-01-07 00:30:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
Sura Sadiva wrote:

I will fill my ratting system with 100 MSI. You enter and want to find me. You'll have to probe and warp on grid to see. Reaping this 100 times (in the meantime of course I see you and your probes on MY d-scan). How long will be? Let's see 10 seconds to scan + 20 seconds to warp. 30 seonds repeated 100 times.


How long do you think it will take you to lay down 100 MSI's around the system?

If you're assuming 20 seconds for him to warp - you're either talking about 10AU and up distance between them in a frigate.. right? Or did you mean shorter distances and assume he's in something more like a cruiser?

Well, first of all, to carry 100 MSIs, you're probably going to need an industrial (unless you plan to stop and pick up more from station), which warps as slow as a cruiser, so even a 1,000,000km warp (less than 1AU) will take you 21 seconds to warp. Let's also assume that you have bookmarks set up around the system, so you don't have to create your own.

So dropping off all 100 MSIs will take you, in that industrial, with perfect timing and no pit stops or bookmark making... half an hour to make.

That leaves you an hour and a half to do your ratting before they start disappearing and you need to replace them. Then you get to do it all over again with 100 more MSIs (at a cost of 100 million).

Meanwhile, the guy hunting you is using a covops (as fast as an interceptor) to find you. It takes less effort on his part to find you than it does for you to go through the motions of laying them all out.

Terrible idea is terrible.

Katrina Oniseki
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#200 - 2014-01-07 00:34:02 UTC  |  Edited by: EI Digin
You should be very careful when introducing additional complexity onto a system that isn't quite understood in the first place, that you don't know the future to, and especially to a system that is way due for an overhaul.

In this case, intelligence (via local, dscan, probing) is definitely something that both the players and the devs know must eventually change. Do not try to fix a broken existing system or try to implement a bandaid solution without first completely understanding how intel should work on a massive scale because more often than not you will just end up causing more harm than good.

In short, create a vision of what you think the game would be like before implementing features like these, because it seems to me like this is another "wouldn't it be cool if" idea rather than what actually needs to be done.