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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Rubicon 1.1] Mobile Micro Jump Unit and Mobile Scan Inhibitor

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Author
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#141 - 2014-01-06 22:15:36 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
This is what CCP are doing instead of fixing light missiles.


Or everything else that's broken or missing, like MJD timers!

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#142 - 2014-01-06 22:17:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
Vatek wrote:


They may as well just introduce a deployable that gives +1 warp core strength to everything inside the radius because that's exactly what this thing does.



Its worse than that, since multiple longpoints dont stop it.

A much more reasonable set of stats for it would be a 45s online time and 5k ehp, similar to the mobile depot
Nicen Jehr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#143 - 2014-01-06 22:18:07 UTC
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:
The scan inhibitor, on the other hand, will be broken in wormholes ...
All this is going to lead to is covops ships spamming fifty of these all over someone's wormhole, making sure they can't possibly check all of them before a fleet is formed up and ready. It's going to be hell getting information.
the scan inhibitor is 50 m3, a cheetah with 3 T2 expanders and 2 T1 rigs holds 548 m3. you'd have to risk your blockade runner to be a real nuisance.
also with 45k HP they will die to even small fleets quickly, like while the scanner is getting 100% on the rest of the inhibitors.

Of course you never know what is inside...

I think it will make some great content :D
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#144 - 2014-01-06 22:20:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
Nicen Jehr wrote:
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:
The scan inhibitor, on the other hand, will be broken in wormholes ...
All this is going to lead to is covops ships spamming fifty of these all over someone's wormhole, making sure they can't possibly check all of them before a fleet is formed up and ready. It's going to be hell getting information.
the scan inhibitor is 50 m3, a cheetah with 3 T2 expanders and 2 T1 rigs holds 548 m3. you'd have to risk your blockade runner to be a real nuisance.
also with 45k HP they will die to even small fleets quickly, like while the scanner is getting 100% on the rest of the inhibitors.

Of course you never know what is inside...

I think it will make some great content :D


Thats one way to use them.

Another way is to anchor one side the plex with a stabbed cloaky FW farming frigate, and if anyone comes in and doesnt see you, they have no idea if you were even there.

Ofc, they might also run into a dozen sebo thrashers and bunch of manner kitsunes, while you are out looking for some frigate pvp. Because roaming wasnt frustrating enough.
MisterAl tt1
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#145 - 2014-01-06 22:23:43 UTC  |  Edited by: MisterAl tt1
Fozzie, get yourself an alt and join any decent wormhole alliance. Maybe that will let you know that your idea of the game is not always same with how people play and want to play it.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
#146 - 2014-01-06 22:33:30 UTC
MisterAl tt1 wrote:
Fozzie, get yourself an alt and join any decent wormhole alliance. Maybe that will let you know that your idea of the game is not always same with how people play and want to play it.


I'd argue that Fozzie has systematically nerfed WH space with every expansion since coming to CCP. It's not his fault though - WH space really is a small number of players. Which typically includes me when I play. I can see that buying a new computer so that I can play Eve is really gonna turn out well for me. Straight

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#147 - 2014-01-06 22:39:44 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Vatek wrote:


They may as well just introduce a deployable that gives +1 warp core strength to everything inside the radius because that's exactly what this thing does.



Its worse than that, since multiple longpoints dont stop it.

A much more reasonable set of stats for it would be a 45s online time and 5k ehp, similar to the mobile depot


No, it's fine as is. You won't be able to blast T1 frigs in a linked and snaked rlml Cerberus anymore, but brawling is viable again.

Adapt or die and all that
Marga Vhiran
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#148 - 2014-01-06 22:41:11 UTC
I'd like to add my voice to those saying please don't allow the scan inhibitors to work inside of FW plexes. Being able to set up inside a plex is already a big advantage, forcing the enemy to suicide a ship into the plex to see what's there is too much.

I also very much agree that ships covered by the scan inhibitor should not be able to use dscan themselves.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#149 - 2014-01-06 22:42:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabriz Adoudel
The MMJD unit really, really needs to be suppressed by any and all forms of warp interdiction. Local bubbles, anchored bubbles, long points, scrams, infinite points - presently only two of these suppress the MMJD and all five should. Edit for correction: Only one of these suppresses the MMJD now, I was wrong about infinite points, this has no effect on the case I was making as infinite pointing a subcap is rare.

There is a big difference between a 'My ship can escape' tool that requires moderate fitting sacrifices, and a 'My whole fleet can escape' tool that only slightly cuts into the amount of ammunition you can carry and has no other meaningful cost. As someone that likes selling to both sides of the various null wars, I do not want my clients being able to extract three-quarters of their ships from a lost fight by having everyone drop one of these then use the ones that don't get popped.

I also believe these MMJDs should have paper-thin EHP prior to being completely anchored. Cruiser EHP once they are anchored is fine, but in that 20 second anchoring time they should be no more durable than a capsule.



As for the scan inhibitors - these are going to be spammed in numbers that you would not believe. I really think these should have paper-thin EHP (akin to a capsule) even when anchored, cost at least as much as a fitted cruiser to reduce spamming, and they should appear on the overview like cynos (in which case they need to be banned from trade hubs and not be renamable), or at the least they should appear on the discovery scanner like anomolies.

In their present incarnation, there will likely be 100+ MSIs at any time in any system in which a fleet fight is expected to occur.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Ilaister
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#150 - 2014-01-06 22:42:56 UTC
Positive changes, if OPs are correct and these are building blocks, signs of things to come.

The anti-change crowd is neglecting that all of these deployables expire, complex traps would require organisation, which should be rewarded. Think of the benefits an anchorable bubble brings for far longer.

You give away too much in w-space by dropping one of these in the first place for PvP... but this will make PVE extremely safe. Has this been factored into the thinking?
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#151 - 2014-01-06 22:43:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Vatek wrote:


They may as well just introduce a deployable that gives +1 warp core strength to everything inside the radius because that's exactly what this thing does.



Its worse than that, since multiple longpoints dont stop it.

A much more reasonable set of stats for it would be a 45s online time and 5k ehp, similar to the mobile depot


No, it's fine as is. You won't be able to blast T1 frigs in a linked and snaked rlml Cerberus anymore, but brawling is viable again.

Adapt or die and all that


No, RLM cerbs will still be just as "good" vs frigs, since they can kill them before the thing onlines. In fact, by the time the thing finishes going online, you will be just about ready to reload anyway, so that works out perfect for you.

But say a slicer vs a propless incursus? Gl.

Or ham caracal vs rupture? Again, gl.

Artycane vs any other bc? Nope.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#152 - 2014-01-06 22:43:39 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Mobile scan inhibitor should disable dscan or probe scanning for anyone inside of it.

The MMJD is alright I guess. Needs closer inspection. At first I thought it was a "get away free" tool for fleets but with the restrictions that you can't anchor two within 6 km, and it can't be used more than once every 20s renders that somewhat less overpowered.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#153 - 2014-01-06 22:50:03 UTC
The scan inhibitor is a major nerf to d-scan and to the chance to find people in a system, sounds like horrible. Will not improve "traps" or anything, will only discourage people to chace others and in general make people harder to be found (while, on the countrary, the godlike intel from local stay the same).

Ratters will spam systms of scan inibhitors (just the first thing coming in my mind: one for each belt) and good luck in catching anyone, with or without a probe scanner.

Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#154 - 2014-01-06 22:52:55 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Mobile scan inhibitor should disable dscan or probe scanning for anyone inside of it.


This, eventually.

But even so I think could be more discourage for engagments than an incentive
MisterAl tt1
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#155 - 2014-01-06 22:53:45 UTC  |  Edited by: MisterAl tt1
Ilaister wrote:

You give away too much in w-space by dropping one of these in the first place for PvP... but this will make PVE extremely safe. Has this been factored into the thinking?

PVE fleet is usually not willing to take part in PVP. This makes this task lot easier.
The only plus for those liking to PVP is their own PVE will be be more safe. But the problem for those liking to PVP in wormholes is that hell lot of pure carebears around, who want nothing but farm. And for those that's a HUGE present.

For PVP - dropping this thing on hole changes little. Few will commit to the hole-brawl without a scanner jumping the other side.

Liang Nuren wrote:


I'd argue that Fozzie has systematically nerfed WH space with every expansion since coming to CCP. It's not his fault though - WH space really is a small number of players. Which typically includes me when I play. I can see that buying a new computer so that I can play Eve is really gonna turn out well for me. Straight

-Liang


Much as I'd like to disagree, it really looks like he is willing to drive us out of our home. Wasn't it him to say, that T3s should be nerfed?

But we are not a so small part of the community (remember that topic?)! And many of us will not play, I think. if forced to change our play-style and get back to k-space.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#156 - 2014-01-06 22:55:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
In terms of catching ratters, the MSI replaces a skill based mechanic (being good at scanning quickly) with a luck based mechanic (pick a random anom, and warp to it).


MSI spam could be fixed by reducing the duration of the module to something quite low, like 10 or 15 minutes.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#157 - 2014-01-06 22:56:41 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Mobile scan inhibitor should disable dscan or probe scanning for anyone inside of it.

The MMJD is alright I guess. Needs closer inspection. At first I thought it was a "get away free" tool for fleets but with the restrictions that you can't anchor two within 6 km, and it can't be used more than once every 20s renders that somewhat less overpowered.



If the fleet isn't densely packed, they can still extract a lot of ships with these.

Think in a 25 v 22 fight, where the 25 decide they are losing and want to extract. Presently, they order MJD ships to evacuate to sniper range and shoot at both anchored bubbles and ships with local bubbles, then they try to warp, and they lose 7 or 8 stragglers that get pointed or scrammed as well as the 7 or 8 ships that get popped while they are shooting bubbles and/or dictors, so perhaps 10 ships escape.

In the MMJD era, the 25 all drop MMJDs. 18 actually start anchoring (the others are too close), 13 MMJDUs actually anchor and 5 get popped while anchoring. Then those ships with local MJDs use those, then the remaining ships all use an MMJD if they can. Chances are you get a good 16 to 18 of your fleet out alive, a big increase on 10 in the first example.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Vatek
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#158 - 2014-01-06 22:58:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Vatek
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
The MMJD unit really, really needs to be suppressed by any and all forms of warp interdiction. Local bubbles, anchored bubbles, long points, scrams, infinite points - presently only two of these suppress the MMJD and all five should.


It's actually only one of out of five, the only way to prevent an MJD activation is a scram.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#159 - 2014-01-06 23:00:30 UTC
Vatek wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
The MMJD unit really, really needs to be suppressed by any and all forms of warp interdiction. Local bubbles, anchored bubbles, long points, scrams, infinite points - presently only two of these suppress the MMJD and all five should.


It's actually only one of out of five, the only way to prevent an MJD activation is a scram.


Or infinite point, right? Which is of course a bit of overkill but might happen from time to time.

Or am I wrong on that one?

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#160 - 2014-01-06 23:01:19 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Vatek wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
The MMJD unit really, really needs to be suppressed by any and all forms of warp interdiction. Local bubbles, anchored bubbles, long points, scrams, infinite points - presently only two of these suppress the MMJD and all five should.


It's actually only one of out of five, the only way to prevent an MJD activation is a scram.


Or infinite point, right? Which is of course a bit of overkill but might happen from time to time.

Or am I wrong on that one?


Scrams only.