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Two years later: Walking in Stations

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Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2013-12-06 15:25:52 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
We want CCP to continue with internet spaceship fixes in this internet spaceship game.


Yeah we do, this doesn't mean they can't take like 1% of their time and draw up some rooms we can walk around in


You already have four. That's enough considering we had to suffer two years of real Eve content being ignored to get them.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2013-12-06 15:33:50 UTC
Dextrome Thorphan wrote:
WASPY69 wrote:
CCP clearly said in a recent statement that EVE is, in fact a game about internet spaceships, and so therein lies the primary development focus.
So don't wait up at night expecting WIS to arrive anytime soon. And on your latter question, not to promote another game, but i believe Star Citizen will have said walking in stations, or at least in your ship hangar.


Yup but they did spend 4 years of development on it... so that was just a complete waste then?


I would hope that development time was used into make Dust 514 or at least practical use when they developed it.
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#63 - 2013-12-06 15:41:39 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


The arguments in favor of avatars still are the same now as they were in 2011:

- provide a immersive New Player Experience
- improve player attachment to the game
- optimize and exploit the resources spent in developing WoD
- gain female players
- enable vanity microtransactions
- expand EVE beyond its "cult" niche

And currently there's a few more:

- attract new players
- compete against a new generation of "classic" space games featuring avatars
- expand beyond its stagnant niche

Must be noted that all the above except the expansion can be achieved without additional gameplay. Must be noted too that the ongoing Hallelujah Plan does not adress any of the above.

Now.

Since it doesn't look like we are getting any avatar based game play in the close future (which in EvE terms means not for then next 3-5 years) it either means that you have a better understanding of the market and/or are much smarter then CCP management.

Or that they have other opinions and/or access to information that you don't have.

Since I refuse to question your intelligence I think it comes down to the latter.

But one thing.

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

- expand EVE beyond its "cult" niche

Is that really very wise?

Isn't that what has kept EvE alive for 10 years, despite "EvE Killers" popping up every 6-12 months?

If you are running a small but successful and commercially stable book shop focussed on a narrow but enthusiastic audience. Is going for wider audience always the best solution?

Or could, for example, using what you have a try to create an another store focussing on a different but equally narrow audience be wiser?

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Tear Dancer
Armada vi Vulnezia
#64 - 2013-12-06 15:50:17 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Lors Dornick wrote:

It's a young thread, and one that might bring up quite emotional reactions memories from CCP staff.

Remember that when we got parts of a future game removed or delayed, they had friends who lost their jobs.


Someone got fired over walking in stations?

Pi$$ed off Exotic Dancer

I blow up Miners for fun and Dance for entertainment.
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#65 - 2013-12-06 15:59:24 UTC
Tear Dancer wrote:
Lors Dornick wrote:

It's a young thread, and one that might bring up quite emotional reactions memories from CCP staff.

Remember that when we got parts of a future game removed or delayed, they had friends who lost their jobs.


Someone got fired over walking in stations?

Just about 20% of the staff.

Not directly down to WiS, but down to CCP's overstretch in trying to do too much at the same time.

Which among other things led to WoD getting slashed down to a slow simmer and WiS losing it's needed companion game.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#66 - 2013-12-06 16:03:52 UTC
Speaking for myself, I want more WiS content. It doesn't need to be big expansions, it doesn't need to be major overhauls. I'd just like to see it slowly grow and improve beyond its current, purely cosmetic status.

I don't care if it takes resources away from something else. What we have right now just isn't enough, and I reject the notion that EVE is purely an internet spaceships game right now - it's far too big and metagamey to be just that - and I completely reject the idea that it should always remain solely about the spaceships.

I am, however, resigned to not seeing WiS receive any attention for several years now.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2013-12-06 16:07:44 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
I don't care if it takes resources away from something else.

And this is why I loathe roleplayers.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#68 - 2013-12-06 16:09:12 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
I don't care if it takes resources away from something else.

And this is why I loathe roleplayers.


What has that got to do with RP in my MMORPG?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Mr Pragmatic
#69 - 2013-12-06 16:13:33 UTC
More stale arguments concerning "the players that left".

If players get butt hurt over something so simple as a walk in station, maybe Eve isnt for them.

Super cali hella yolo swaga dopeness.  -Yoloswaggins, in the fellowship of the bling.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#70 - 2013-12-06 16:22:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
I don't care if it takes resources away from something else.

And this is why I loathe roleplayers.


What has that got to do with RP in my MMORPG?


Well he's right, I AM a roleplayer, but that has very little to do with why I want WiS.

WiS wouldn't actually do much to improve the quality of RP any. There's not much quality make-believe to be gained from being able to walk into somebody's CQ and sit on their couch - we can just imagine we're doing that in a chat channel anyway. Adding the ability to mechanically go somewhere wouldn't change anything very much because we're already RPing like we've gone there anyway.

Largely, roleplayers are playing the game, and interacting with in-game mechanics, and drawing inspiration for our subjects and conversations from what we're able to do to make money and interact with other players, exactly like everybody else.

So what I want is WiS that has useful sandboxy mechanics that are complimentary to the space gameplay. I want WiS to enrich and improve the whole of EVE, in ways that benefit my out-of-character play experience and that of everybody else who plays the game too, regardless of whether or not they RP.

What I'm asking for, in short, is that resources that are being used to create interesting gameplay mechanics, should be used to create interesting gameplay mechanics. I'd just like for them to be a specific kind of gameplay mechanics that are avatar-based rather than spaceship-based.

I don't agree that they'd be bad for the game - I'm envisioning stuff that would do nothing but enrich, expand and improve the game, here. I'm very explicitly NOT asking for those resources to be wasted - I'm asking for them to be usefully put to work in an area that I think is currently underdeveloped.

Other players may not see what they gain from it, but then again that's true of the resources that were spent making Ghost sites and the SoE ships this time around for people who don't do exploration/hacking, or fly faction ships. Every expansion contains stuff that doesn't benefit everyone.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Davon Mandra'thin
Das Collective
#71 - 2013-12-06 16:24:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Davon Mandra'thin
Rhes wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
I don't care if it takes resources away from something else.

And this is why I loathe roleplayers.


If you don't like people wanting stuff other than spaceship content maybe you should go onto the Dust forums and rant at them. There are more people there that want developers doing that 'not on spaceships' than in this forum. I think your purpose would be better served there.
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2013-12-06 16:26:17 UTC
Mr Pragmatic wrote:
More stale arguments concerning "the players that left".

If players get butt hurt over something so simple as a walk in station, maybe Eve isnt for them.

Nobody got "butt hurt" over "walk in station". Eve players got mad over the game being ignored for two years while "walk in station" was developed.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#73 - 2013-12-06 16:30:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Lors Dornick
Stitcher wrote:
Speaking for myself, I want more WiS content. It doesn't need to be big expansions, it doesn't need to be major overhauls. I'd just like to see it slowly grow and improve beyond its current, purely cosmetic status.

Despite what people might think, I want the same thing.

But 30+ years being part of or leading software projects has had it's effects.

So while I want exactly that to happen as a player, I can see why it's not going to,

Stitcher wrote:

I don't care if it takes resources away from something else. What we have right now just isn't enough, and I reject the notion that EVE is purely an internet spaceships game right now - it's far too big and metagamey to be just that - and I completely reject the idea that it should always remain solely about the spaceships.

The point is, I guess, is that the powers that be, based on their opinions and the facts they have, don't think it's worth the resources needed to add minor polish to the current state of affairs.

There's also the issue that adding even something small to this quite sensitive part of EvE can actually be more destructive than constructive. (Adding a way to change colours in a broken UI can/will agitate users more than just leaving it broken.)

So I don't think that there will be anything more than minor vanity stuff added until they either can import some serious stuff from WoD (they owe it to us, if they're still alive, or undead or whatever) or that there really is a solid plan leading to good gameplay..

Stitcher wrote:

I am, however, resigned to not seeing WiS receive any attention for several years now.

I would say "accepted the facts" rather than "resigned", but otherwise I agree ;)

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#74 - 2013-12-06 16:31:11 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
. I'd just like for them to be a specific kind of gameplay mechanics that are avatar-based rather than spaceship-based.


Like what?

Id be all for boarding your ship, tearing you out of your pod and draining your blood, but I dont think its practical in this game

Avatars shouldnt be just about being nice if they are to work.

The Covenant could be real fun with WiS

But

What else would you want to do?

Has anyone even suggested what they want to do apart from the perennial "Sit in a bar"?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Baroness Vulna
Armada vi Vulnezia
#75 - 2013-12-06 16:40:00 UTC
Wow, this topic has hit a few nerves and hearts it seems. For good reason, WiS has been a big topic for years, it's too bad CCP messed up so badly on the big expansion for it.

WiS is not just about role playing, it is about immersion in the game and expanding an already promising character/avatar part of the game.

CCP doesn't need to put as much resources into improving WiS , they could gradually work on it with each expansion that way it would complement space ship improvements.

From what i get after reading posts so far, there is a camp of people who absolutely hate the idea of CCP putting any effort into WiS again and a camp that would like to see it done right this time.

Lets hope CCP does something with it.

brought to you by -Barony of Vulnezia MMO micro nation- www.vulnezia.com Be a part of the world's first MMO Micro Nation
Davon Mandra'thin
Das Collective
#76 - 2013-12-06 16:41:32 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:

Has anyone even suggested what they want to do apart from the perennial "Sit in a bar"?


Yes.

The OP of this thread had a pretty good idea.
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2013-12-06 16:42:28 UTC
Baroness Vulna wrote:
Wow, this topic has hit a few nerves and hearts it seems. For good reason, WiS has been a big topic for years, it's too bad CCP messed up so badly on the big expansion for it.

WiS is not just about role playing, it is about immersion in the game and expanding an already promising character/avatar part of the game.

CCP doesn't need to put as much resources into improving WiS , they could gradually work on it with each expansion that way it would complement space ship improvements.

From what i get after reading posts so far, there is a camp of people who absolutely hate the idea of CCP putting any effort into WiS again and a camp that would like to see it done right this time.

Lets hope CCP does something with it.


Let's hope CCP keeps their promise to focus on real Eve content.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Davon Mandra'thin
Das Collective
#78 - 2013-12-06 16:49:02 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Rhes wrote:

Let's hope CCP keeps their promise to focus on real Eve content.


You can hope that. It's fine. *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#79 - 2013-12-06 16:49:35 UTC
Stitcher wrote:

So what I want is WiS that has useful sandboxy mechanics that are complimentary to the space gameplay. I want WiS to enrich and improve the whole of EVE, in ways that benefit my out-of-character play experience and that of everybody else who plays the game too, regardless of whether or not they RP.

What I'm asking for, in short, is that resources that are being used to create interesting gameplay mechanics, should be used to create interesting gameplay mechanics. I'd just like for them to be a specific kind of gameplay mechanics that are avatar-based rather than spaceship-based.

This I can support 100%

It is exactly what I want too.

The problem remains that it's very hard to add this a little bit at the time.

It's back to the issue that more or less every online game has had for the last 20+ years.

It has to work well enough, it has to provide some form of valid game play.

There's a very subtle line of combined functionality and fun that defines the difference between almost instant failure and a chance to go on and get better.

I'm quite sure that there are several people working at CCP that really want to advance Avatar gameplay (and several who think it's crap, but that's office politics ;)).

The problem is that it will not get a go unless there's some form a solid goal or "selling point".

There first has to be a solid addition to EvE, or it's going to be shot down.

But all is not lost, if some clever person (or group of persons) can come up with that idea, then the wall (or possible even door) is broken.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Baroness Vulna
Armada vi Vulnezia
#80 - 2013-12-06 16:50:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Baroness Vulna
Rhes wrote:
Baroness Vulna wrote:
Wow, this topic has hit a few nerves and hearts it seems. For good reason, WiS has been a big topic for years, it's too bad CCP messed up so badly on the big expansion for it.

WiS is not just about role playing, it is about immersion in the game and expanding an already promising character/avatar part of the game.

CCP doesn't need to put as much resources into improving WiS , they could gradually work on it with each expansion that way it would complement space ship improvements.

From what i get after reading posts so far, there is a camp of people who absolutely hate the idea of CCP putting any effort into WiS again and a camp that would like to see it done right this time.

Lets hope CCP does something with it.


Let's hope CCP keeps their promise to focus on real Eve content.



WAlking in stations is a real part of EVE content sir, that happened in 2011 and nothing will change that. All I and others are asking for is a piece of the pie each expansion to see it grow. Who knows you may like the improvements someday yourself while still being able to do your internet spaceships.

brought to you by -Barony of Vulnezia MMO micro nation- www.vulnezia.com Be a part of the world's first MMO Micro Nation