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Increase PVP and combat afk cloaky camping

Author
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#321 - 2013-09-24 23:35:54 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
And i'm also pretty sure that CCP them self doesn't like afk playing where it gives advantages to the afk players and no advantages to the other part.


As for this, don't be absurd. If CCP didn't like AFK they would use a log off timer for everyone. What about those Market Traders who sit in Jita all day long using up a "space on the node"...AFK.

Station Dockers: Auto Undock for being AFK?

CCP doesn't mind it at all.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#322 - 2013-09-24 23:36:56 UTC

As has been stated many, many times before, there are two fundamental issues that are heavily tied up with AFK cloaking.:

a.) Local Chat: This is an omniscient intel tool that tells you every pilot in system. This perfect pilot identifier essentially transforms "dangerous" nullsec into a super-safe land, because you can identify everyone in system and instantly realize if there is a threat. There is some danger from a hostile entering system, locating you, warping to you and tackling you, but unless you have bad luck (i.e. scrammed by a rat right as the local enters system), or more likely, unless you aren't paying attention, it is highly unlikely a new "hostile" will successfully capture you. I've been hunting in nullsec for a long time, and am quite proficient (usually I can locate and warp to a target within 20-30 seconds of entering system). Because the intel system is so heavily balanced towards the defenders, AFK cloaking is used to prevent a system from being declarable as "safe". If you create a way to remove those AFK cloakers, it MUST also address the imbalanced intel system (i.e. local chat).

b.) Hot drop Mechanics: On the flip side of the "afk cloaker" discussion is hot drop mechanics. If the locals only had to worry about the few "AFK" cloakers in system, people would tell all the "cry-cry-afk-cloaker-cry-cry" pilots to HTFU or GTFO. However, that AFK-cloaker often packs a cyno, which can bridge in a pragmatically completely unscoutable force directly top of target. This mechanic is also extremely powerful and for the most part, unbalanced. Unfortunately, hotdrop mechanics are also the "balance" to gate campers and local chat intel.

These are all intertwined, and while we could create a "scan down claokies" mechanic, it really doesn't address the two mechanics above. This non-trivial intertwining is why there hasn't been a "solution" implemented before now.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#323 - 2013-09-24 23:40:08 UTC
Please answer my question as I am genuinely curious:

@NightmareX My question to you is this: "When you enter a system and someone is in it before you what do you do?
NightmareX
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#324 - 2013-09-24 23:42:50 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

As has been stated many, many times before, there are two fundamental issues that are heavily tied up with AFK cloaking.:

a.) Local Chat: This is an omniscient intel tool that tells you every pilot in system. This perfect pilot identifier essentially transforms "dangerous" nullsec into a super-safe land, because you can identify everyone in system and instantly realize if there is a threat. There is some danger from a hostile entering system, locating you, warping to you and tackling you, but unless you have bad luck (i.e. scrammed by a rat right as the local enters system), or more likely, unless you aren't paying attention, it is highly unlikely a new "hostile" will successfully capture you. I've been hunting in nullsec for a long time, and am quite proficient (usually I can locate and warp to a target within 20-30 seconds of entering system). Because the intel system is so heavily balanced towards the defenders, AFK cloaking is used to prevent a system from being declarable as "safe". If you create a way to remove those AFK cloakers, it MUST also address the imbalanced intel system (i.e. local chat).

b.) Hot drop Mechanics: On the flip side of the "afk cloaker" discussion is hot drop mechanics. If the locals only had to worry about the few "AFK" cloakers in system, people would tell all the "cry-cry-afk-cloaker-cry-cry" pilots to HTFU or GTFO. However, that AFK-cloaker often packs a cyno, which can bridge in a pragmatically completely unscoutable force directly top of target. This mechanic is also extremely powerful and for the most part, unbalanced. Unfortunately, hotdrop mechanics are also the "balance" to gate campers and local chat intel.

These are all intertwined, and while we could create a "scan down claokies" mechanic, it really doesn't address the two mechanics above. This non-trivial intertwining is why there hasn't been a "solution" implemented before now.

a.) I'm gonna be honest here and say that if local had to be nerfed for letting the cloakers have more risks, then i will go for that. Everyone should have risks and dangers in EVE. EVE is not Hello Kitty Online.

b.) I agree that the hotdrop mechanics are a bit unbalanced.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

NightmareX
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#325 - 2013-09-24 23:44:14 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Please answer my question as I am genuinely curious:

@NightmareX My question to you is this: "When you enter a system and someone is in it before you what do you do?

Try and kill them?

In the same way as the player who was before me want's to kill me for entering the system.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

NightmareX
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#326 - 2013-09-24 23:47:00 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
But "AFK" Cloakers don't have an advantage, only the advantage that you give them by fearing they are active = working as intended. Assuming that they are active, which we always should (Oh I've just gone AFK in Hek with a Improved Cloaking Device as I was on a market run to reply to this) then the fear you have is real and you should act upon it...see one of the 9 other points of how to react or find your own.

It's all a matter of perception. Yes I post as a Cov-Ops Pilot who flies in a flimsy ship which is nerfed in every way because of the nature of it's business: Cloaking and being undetectable.

Hence the description here:

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
EVE Online wrote:
A very specialized piece of technology, the covert ops cloak is designed for use in tandem with specific covert ops vessels. Although it could theoretically work on other ships, its spatial distortion field is so unstable that trying to compensate for its fluctuations will overwhelm non-specialized computing hardware.


If you look through the cloakers eyes, there is no advantages, but for the others who know there is a cloaker in the system, they will believe the cloaker have alot of advantages.

Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Now look at a Cheetah (Cov-Ops Frigate):

EVE Online wrote:
Name: Cheetah
Hull: Probe Class
Role: Covert Ops Frigate

Designed for commando and espionage operation, its main strength is the ability to travel unseen through enemy territory and to avoid unfavorable encounters.


its main strength is the ability to travel unseen through enemy territory and to avoid unfavourable encounters period. That's what it's designed to do and to counter it...Local and naff all defences.

And before you can TRAVEL UNSEEN, you have to be active. So that doesn't tell you anything about what risks and dangers you can avoid if you are not traveling or can't control the ship your self or are afk.

Traveling unseen while you are active as the description of the Cheetah says is something else than sitting afk doing nothing.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#327 - 2013-09-24 23:49:22 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

As has been stated many, many times before, there are two fundamental issues that are heavily tied up with AFK cloaking.:

a.) Local Chat: This is an omniscient intel tool that tells you every pilot in system. This perfect pilot identifier essentially transforms "dangerous" nullsec into a super-safe land, because you can identify everyone in system and instantly realize if there is a threat. There is some danger from a hostile entering system, locating you, warping to you and tackling you, but unless you have bad luck (i.e. scrammed by a rat right as the local enters system), or more likely, unless you aren't paying attention, it is highly unlikely a new "hostile" will successfully capture you. I've been hunting in nullsec for a long time, and am quite proficient (usually I can locate and warp to a target within 20-30 seconds of entering system). Because the intel system is so heavily balanced towards the defenders, AFK cloaking is used to prevent a system from being declarable as "safe". If you create a way to remove those AFK cloakers, it MUST also address the imbalanced intel system (i.e. local chat).

b.) Hot drop Mechanics: On the flip side of the "afk cloaker" discussion is hot drop mechanics. If the locals only had to worry about the few "AFK" cloakers in system, people would tell all the "cry-cry-afk-cloaker-cry-cry" pilots to HTFU or GTFO. However, that AFK-cloaker often packs a cyno, which can bridge in a pragmatically completely unscoutable force directly top of target. This mechanic is also extremely powerful and for the most part, unbalanced. Unfortunately, hotdrop mechanics are also the "balance" to gate campers and local chat intel.

These are all intertwined, and while we could create a "scan down claokies" mechanic, it really doesn't address the two mechanics above. This non-trivial intertwining is why there hasn't been a "solution" implemented before now.

a.) I'm gonna be honest here and say that if local had to be nerfed for letting the cloakers have more risks, then i will go for that. Everyone should have risks and dangers in EVE. EVE is not Hello Kitty Online.

b.) I agree that the hotdrop mechanics are a bit unbalanced.


In response to a.) If "local-chat-being-used-as-an-intel-channel" were nerfed, I'd support a scanning system to hunt cloakers. At the same time, it would be imperative that it didn't obsolete the main functions of cloaks which are to moreless safely navigate through gate camps and to get "safe" for a brief period of time while you take a bio, recharge jump cap, wait out an aggression timer, etc. Also, any changes to the intel system needs to be VERY careful not to boost covert cloaks to "god mode" type modules.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#328 - 2013-09-24 23:55:10 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
So that doesn't tell you anything about what risks and dangers you can avoid if you are not traveling or can't control the ship your self or are afk.

Traveling unseen while you are active as the description of the Cheetah says is something else than sitting afk doing nothing.


I snip as it gets too long. I take your point on board regarding travelling but "avoid unfavorable encounters" means I can sit there all day long active watching and logging gate traffic, routes people use, people in system but even if I'm not moving on my perch does that make me AFK? No, cos I'm at the KB, however to you I would appear to be AFK because you cannot find me.

I travelled through 30 systems to get to where I needed to be in my Cov-Ops ship, I'm perched up in my flimsy ship that survived those gate camps and bubbles and locals and active intel lists and get to the system I need to be in...what tells you that I'm there is Local for which you have put no effort in finding out except casting you eyes to the Local channel and so on and so forth.

You = 0 effort to find out I'm there
Me = 0 effort to strike the fear of god into you

Balanced.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#329 - 2013-09-24 23:56:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
In response to a.) If "local-chat-being-used-as-an-intel-channel" were nerfed, I'd support a scanning system to hunt cloakers. At the same time, it would be imperative that it didn't obsolete the main functions of cloaks which are to moreless safely navigate through gate camps and to get "safe" for a brief period of time while you take a bio, recharge jump cap, wait out an aggression timer, etc. Also, any changes to the intel system needs to be VERY careful not to boost covert cloaks to "god mode" type modules.


These maybe of interest to you and I fully support both ideas.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence

AND IN CONJUNCTION WITH

So Local Chat vanished, now what?
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#330 - 2013-09-25 00:07:29 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
In response to a.) If "local-chat-being-used-as-an-intel-channel" were nerfed, I'd support a scanning system to hunt cloakers. At the same time, it would be imperative that it didn't obsolete the main functions of cloaks which are to moreless safely navigate through gate camps and to get "safe" for a brief period of time while you take a bio, recharge jump cap, wait out an aggression timer, etc. Also, any changes to the intel system needs to be VERY careful not to boost covert cloaks to "god mode" type modules.


These maybe of interest to you and I fully support both ideas.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence

AND IN CONJUNCTION WITH

So Local Chat vanished, now what?


I respect Nick's opinions, but we have a disagreement in the degree stealth should be implemented into this game. I'd prefer an intel system that always lets you know there is another pilot in system, but doesn't tell you who that pilot is or what they are in until you get intel on them. I would allow the sharing of intel among fleet members, but otherwise you would have to go get intel on the new local yourself to determine who they are. I'd make it so a cloaked vessel will simply show as "unknown" until it decloaks within "intel range". I believe having complete stealth, where the presence is also hidden, is simply too far, even if you can scan them down.

NightmareX
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#331 - 2013-09-25 00:11:09 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
So that doesn't tell you anything about what risks and dangers you can avoid if you are not traveling or can't control the ship your self or are afk.

Traveling unseen while you are active as the description of the Cheetah says is something else than sitting afk doing nothing.


I snip as it gets too long. I take your point on board regarding travelling but "avoid unfavorable encounters" means I can sit there all day long active watching and logging gate traffic, routes people use, people in system but even if I'm not moving on my perch does that make me AFK? No, cos I'm at the KB, however to you I would appear to be AFK because you cannot find me.

I travelled through 30 systems to get to where I needed to be in my Cov-Ops ship, I'm perched up in my flimsy ship that survived those gate camps and bubbles and locals and active intel lists and get to the system I need to be in...what tells you that I'm there is Local for which you have put no effort in finding out except casting you eyes to the Local channel and so on and so forth.

You = 0 effort to find out I'm there
Me = 0 effort to strike the fear of god into you

Balanced.

As the description on the Cheetah says, it's a ship designed to travel unseen and it's made to sneak into enemy territorium to gain intel. Not to cause fear for the rest of the local by doing nothing.

So yes, something needs to be done to balance out the risk vs reward ratio for afk cloakers or cloaking in general.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#332 - 2013-09-25 00:26:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
NightmareX wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
So that doesn't tell you anything about what risks and dangers you can avoid if you are not traveling or can't control the ship your self or are afk.

Traveling unseen while you are active as the description of the Cheetah says is something else than sitting afk doing nothing.


I snip as it gets too long. I take your point on board regarding travelling but "avoid unfavorable encounters" means I can sit there all day long active watching and logging gate traffic, routes people use, people in system but even if I'm not moving on my perch does that make me AFK? No, cos I'm at the KB, however to you I would appear to be AFK because you cannot find me.

I travelled through 30 systems to get to where I needed to be in my Cov-Ops ship, I'm perched up in my flimsy ship that survived those gate camps and bubbles and locals and active intel lists and get to the system I need to be in...what tells you that I'm there is Local for which you have put no effort in finding out except casting you eyes to the Local channel and so on and so forth.

You = 0 effort to find out I'm there
Me = 0 effort to strike the fear of god into you

/sarcasm

Balanced.

As the description on the Cheetah says, it's a ship designed to travel unseen and it's made to sneak into enemy territorium to gain intel. Not to cause fear for the rest of the local by doing nothing.

So yes, something needs to be done to balance out the risk vs reward ratio for afk cloakers or cloaking in general.


Sorry, fixed the above (added /sarcasm)

EDIT:

It doesn't do "nothing" it's there and you fear it. If you were prepared for it you wouldn't fear it as much as so it is doing what it was intended to do...avoiding unfavourable encounters by choosing when, how and where along with if\or it engages you.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#333 - 2013-09-25 00:36:42 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
....
As the description on the Cheetah says, it's a ship designed to travel unseen and it's made to sneak into enemy territorium to gain intel. Not to cause fear for the rest of the local by doing nothing.

So yes, something needs to be done to balance out the risk vs reward ratio for afk cloakers or cloaking in general.


Don't be purposely obtuse! Cloaking itself is one of the most balanced mechanics in the game. While cloaked you can't hurt someone, and they can't hurt you. AFK cloaking itself is fine. It is local chat being used as an intel system and the ability to hotdrop that are unbalanced. If you nerf the former, you remove the desire of people to AFK cloak, and if you nerf the latter, you take the bite out of what an AFK cloaker can do to you!


NightmareX
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#334 - 2013-09-25 01:54:23 UTC
After reading the 'AFK Cloaking Collection Thread', i think Lucal Kell nailed it pretty well and said it exactly like i think about this afk cloaking case.

You can read what he wrote here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3646710#post3646710

That's also my point here.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#335 - 2013-09-25 10:27:26 UTC
Lucas has contradicted himself throughout that thread, but his argument boils down to something along the lines of

"a cloaked player is an unknown level of risk, please CCP remove the uncertainty and tell me everything about that player so I have perfect knowledge for free to respond to."

He is a terribly entitled carebear
Storm Airkian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#336 - 2013-09-25 10:44:41 UTC
OK Obviously some of the ppl here suggesting AFK camping is good as it is are not the sharpest quivers in the arrow... So I will just spell this plain and easy.

What does the "afk" player do or risk while simply doing "afk cloaking" He does not have to be in the same city with the computer that is sitting there and "afk cloaking" the system.. Now we all hate "BOT"s so tell me one extra difference between a BOT and a Afk Cloaker except that the BOT "might be making isk"

The very easy solution would be make cloak module need to be re-activated every 10cycles, or 20, or 50 for that matter... But u would not like that would u?? Cause leaving an alt in a system cloaked and meanwhile playing eve with another char wont be as easy as it will need some "Dual Boxing"

So let them do multi boxing if they have to.. But NO TO "I am completely safe, I wont and dont risk ANYTHING, but u carebears shall fear my BOT"

Just AFK Camping is not OK as it is now...


I hope this was clear enough.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#337 - 2013-09-25 10:49:33 UTC  |  Edited by: TheGunslinger42
Storm Airkian wrote:
OK Obviously some of the ppl here suggesting AFK camping is good as it is are not the sharpest quivers in the arrow... So I will just spell this plain and easy.

What does the "afk" player do or risk while simply doing "afk cloaking" He does not have to be in the same city with the computer that is sitting there and "afk cloaking" the system.. Now we all hate "BOT"s so tell me one extra difference between a BOT and a Afk Cloaker except that the BOT "might be making isk"

The very easy solution would be make cloak module need to be re-activated every 10cycles, or 20, or 50 for that matter... But u would not like that would u?? Cause leaving an alt in a system cloaked and meanwhile playing eve with another char wont be as easy as it will need some "Dual Boxing"

So let them do multi boxing if they have to.. But NO TO "I am completely safe, I wont and dont risk ANYTHING, but u carebears shall fear my BOT"

Just AFK Camping is not OK as it is now...


I hope this was clear enough.


A) AFK players are not botting. There is no automated input - there is NO input. Thats a big difference.
B) AFK players gain nothing. You can't say "except this..." when that difference is colossal and is so incredibly important.
C) The status of being either cloaked or afk means, by definition and the mechanics available, that I am unable to interact with anyone else - why should you be able to interact with me when it is impossible for me to interact with you? Sounds pretty imbalanced bro.

Additionally, sticking a cycle timer on it destroys wormhole space and is a nerf to ACTIVE players. How can you rant so hard against afk players but then come up with a suggestion which is a huge punishment to ACTIVE players? Either you're not too bright, or you're being dishonest.

Active players would on a regular basis be exposed for the brief second in between reactivating modules. In wormhole space this is utterly catastrophic, as there would be no way to remain undetected in a wormhole. Your presence would be blipping in intervals. It's also terrible for other aspects, including ones in k-space. If, for example, I'm sitting watching an enemies tower and reporting on the comings and goings of their members - at a regular interval I would briefly flash on their screen, revealing my position. I would lose the ability to semi-covertly (they already know I'm in system thanks to local, but dont know what gate, tower, station, etc I'm observing) run reconnaissance.

So thanks but no thanks, your idea is a) terrible in terms of both balance and mechanics and b) provides you certainties and intel for free that you are not entitled to
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#338 - 2013-09-25 11:08:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Storm Airkian wrote:
OK Obviously some of the ppl here suggesting AFK camping is good as it is are not the sharpest quivers in the arrow... So I will just spell this plain and easy.

What does the "afk" player do or risk while simply doing "afk cloaking" He does not have to be in the same city with the computer that is sitting there and "afk cloaking" the system.. Now we all hate "BOT"s so tell me one extra difference between a BOT and a Afk Cloaker except that the BOT "might be making isk"

The very easy solution would be make cloak module need to be re-activated every 10cycles, or 20, or 50 for that matter... But u would not like that would u?? Cause leaving an alt in a system cloaked and meanwhile playing eve with another char wont be as easy as it will need some "Dual Boxing"

So let them do multi boxing if they have to.. But NO TO "I am completely safe, I wont and dont risk ANYTHING, but u carebears shall fear my BOT"

Just AFK Camping is not OK as it is now...


I hope this was clear enough.


So to remain cloaked I have to put in more effort for you to have balance from "AFK Cloakers"...how does that only affect "AFK" players?

How much more free Intel do you want when I uncloak and have to re-cloak along with the rest of my Stealth Bomber squadron? Exactly! It's another free intel gathering tool just like, well this could be awkward, but LOCAL.

Also so now I have to abandon my perch possibly missing vital ACTIVE gathering intelligence to feed into my intel channel because I need to re-cloak...marvelous...not a hindrance at all.

Actually I'm pretty sure I pay my monthly fee and if I choose to AFK Cloak in a system for whatever reason and for however long I choose I am well within my rights as a paying customer to do so. If you choose to dock up 23.5/7/365 then you have that right as well.

The way I see it is you want risk free play from people you think aren't there but actually might be and you don't like it.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#339 - 2013-09-25 11:12:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Also on AFK Cloaking:

Have you ever thought that people with limited game time skill as Cov-Ops so that they have the ability to go AFK cloaked because of RL situations that mean that they might need to? A new father\mother who has to attend to his\ her baby every few hours and can't go to Null and back to Hi Sec to dock up because it would be pointless uses cloaking to ensure they can still enjoy the game and play where they want to play? No, I didn't think so.

You just want to remove the uncertainty that someone is there and could possibly do something to you. HTFU or GTFO and back to Hi-Sec where no-one complains of this problem....ever...just like Wormhole Dwellers who have learned to adapt, adopt and utilise the mechanics provided.

EDIT:

Hi-Sec carebears get a load of grief from you so called "Nullers" or 1337 PVP Pilots but you know what they have more balls than Nullbears as they have such a cluttered local they don't use it as an Intel Channel...they use D-Scan, align to's and all the other mechanics along with...wait for it...preparing for combat or the gank. Now it might not be a hot drop but a gank of even 3 ships on a PVE boat could be just as catastrophic e.g. Golem Hull = 1.3billion ISK + Fitting...I'll let you do the mathematics on it.

If you want more PVP you don't want to be de-cloaking "AFK Cloakers" as that's not PVP, that's just padding out your Killboard. Get some balls and go and engage in real PVP where someone is there to fight back, someone who is ready and wants what you want: More PVP.
Storm Airkian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#340 - 2013-09-25 11:18:28 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Storm Airkian wrote:
OK Obviously some of the ppl here suggesting AFK camping is good as it is are not the sharpest quivers in the arrow... So I will just spell this plain and easy.

What does the "afk" player do or risk while simply doing "afk cloaking" He does not have to be in the same city with the computer that is sitting there and "afk cloaking" the system.. Now we all hate "BOT"s so tell me one extra difference between a BOT and a Afk Cloaker except that the BOT "might be making isk"

The very easy solution would be make cloak module need to be re-activated every 10cycles, or 20, or 50 for that matter... But u would not like that would u?? Cause leaving an alt in a system cloaked and meanwhile playing eve with another char wont be as easy as it will need some "Dual Boxing"

So let them do multi boxing if they have to.. But NO TO "I am completely safe, I wont and dont risk ANYTHING, but u carebears shall fear my BOT"

Just AFK Camping is not OK as it is now...


I hope this was clear enough.


So to remain cloaked I have to put in more effort for you to have balance from "AFK Cloakers"...how does that only affect "AFK" players?

How much more free Intel do you want when I uncloak and have to re-cloak along with the rest of my Stealth Bomber squadron? Exactly! It's another free intel gathering tool just like, well this could be awkward, but LOCAL.

Also so now I have to abandon my perch possibly missing vital ACTIVE gathering intelligence to feed into my intel channel because I need to re-cloak...marvelous...not a hindrance at all.

Actually I'm pretty sure I pay my monthly fee and if I choose to AFK Cloak in a system for whatever reason and for however long I choose I am well within my rights as a paying customer to do so. If you choose to dock up 23.5/7/365 then you have that right as well.

The way I see it is you want risk free play from people you think aren't there but actually might be and you don't like it.



So technically u claim the rights of a botter ?? Afterall what is a few million iskies per hour in Null ? Also u need not "have to" leave your perch etc... U could re-cloak without the initial cloak falling off by just "being there". When someone sits in Station "afk" he is no threat to anyone also gives no thoughts etc. to anyone so could be "afk" and still he migh be risking stuff as his Station can be "cmped" bubbled" etc which he cnnot know unless he undocks..

Afk cloaker or BOT actually (only difference is no macro is involved) simply does nothing, is not in front of pc (or he is playing RomeII Total War) and does "never ever" need to open EVE window every 5mins or so (Hell even highsec miners need to be way more active than that)

You could simply recloak without giving out your position or ship or anything... But to do that u need to PLAY THE GAME... not abuse broken mechanics