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why cant we have mining moved to grav sites?

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Mirima Thurander
#41 - 2012-12-12 15:15:25 UTC
I assumed this thread would be full of LEAVE MY ROIDS ALONE and BUT MY BOTS.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-12-12 15:16:30 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
I assumed this thread would be full of LEAVE MY ROIDS ALONE and BUT MY BOTS.


Did you put this here for the very purpose of getting that reaction? Why.... that would be trolling P

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Mirima Thurander
#43 - 2012-12-12 15:18:46 UTC
I have seen this same thread posted not 6 months ago and it was filled with rage.

O I know what its missing.

And do the same to all ice belts.

Now I will get rage posts.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#44 - 2012-12-12 15:18:48 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
[quote=Jenn aSide]Jesus, now I'm agreeing with Remiel Pollard, is anyone else's feet getting cold or is it just my own personal hell that froze over?

Please, let me see your "personal hell".

My personal hell WAS called Tribute.....

*looks harshly at Goons*
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
#45 - 2012-12-12 15:20:53 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
Darenthul wrote:
Also throw in the fact there are barely enough grav sites as is.. I scanned down a dozen systems last night, low traveled ones too, and only one found and it was already being mined. (Full skilled, full setup scanning ship I should note)


That's just luck, all I ever get is grav sites and I have no interest in them ¬¬


I usually get wormholes, and I have no interest in them Ugh



Indeed. I have alwys felt WH Exploration needs a different set of Probes or different mechanic to find them.

Throwing their finding into the same mix as Industrial and 'simple' Combat activities seems a bit simplistic on CCP's part. When I want minerals, decryptors, and the like, Exploration makes sense. WH activites, although they have those sites too, is just an entirely different animal requiring entirely different logistical issues than regular exploratioin sites.


CCPs track record with operating two systems that try and do the something isn't exactly that great (Stations/POS as an example). Furthermore if it wasn't the same system I think less people would be inclined to use "wh" only probes as they aren't looking for wh's which means no random wh traffic, which makes me sad Sad

wumbo
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#46 - 2012-12-12 15:21:48 UTC
Schalac wrote:
I would agree with this if only veld was found in belts and all grav sites would have a certain percent of all ores. Also there would have to be at least 10-15 grav sites per constellation open at the same time with a respawn of at most 30 mins after one was depleted. Also the rats that are in the grav sites would have to be made sightly tougher so that you would need a combat escort or a tank on your barges. And sites would only be found in .8 space and lower.


thought veld was best isk/hour according to chribba

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Darenthul
Anstard Armory Inc.
#47 - 2012-12-12 15:23:50 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Schalac wrote:
I would agree with this if only veld was found in belts and all grav sites would have a certain percent of all ores. Also there would have to be at least 10-15 grav sites per constellation open at the same time with a respawn of at most 30 mins after one was depleted. Also the rats that are in the grav sites would have to be made sightly tougher so that you would need a combat escort or a tank on your barges. And sites would only be found in .8 space and lower.


thought veld was best isk/hour according to chribba


Nooooo. By far no.

Scordite right now is absurd due to the Pyerite jump as of late. Its ISK/Hour/m3 is amazing. Omber was actually high for a short time before Retribution but Isogen shortly crashed afterwards.

"I find mining to be an incredibly relaxing thing to do after work. It's like fishing without waking up early. Or cold. But the beer, the beer is the same." - arramdaywalker
Mirima Thurander
#48 - 2012-12-12 15:26:48 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Schalac wrote:
I would agree with this if only veld was found in belts and all grav sites would have a certain percent of all ores. Also there would have to be at least 10-15 grav sites per constellation open at the same time with a respawn of at most 30 mins after one was depleted. Also the rats that are in the grav sites would have to be made sightly tougher so that you would need a combat escort or a tank on your barges. And sites would only be found in .8 space and lower.


thought veld was best isk/hour according to chribba

Not is mass amounts like we are suggesting if you have to move that mining bardge to a new role every cycle its going to suck.

I'm talking leave the belts for noobs but with roids spread out and so small it only makes seance to use the mining frig.

Move everything else to grav sites, including ice, and now we have to less its all still infinite but now you have to hunt it down before you can site there afk for 2 hours mining.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#49 - 2012-12-12 15:31:44 UTC
Yes. Hide the Ice in Exploration Sites.

Would be one of the best things for anti-bot efforts ever.

I honestly find it really, really weird this has not been done.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Darenthul
Anstard Armory Inc.
#50 - 2012-12-12 15:33:35 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Suvetar
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Yes. Hide the Ice in Exploration Sites.

Would be one of the best things for anti-bot efforts ever.

I honestly find it really, really weird this has not been done.


I agree, hiding anything in exploration sites would complicate things for bots across the board.

Edit: Removed off-topic comment. ISD Suvetar

"I find mining to be an incredibly relaxing thing to do after work. It's like fishing without waking up early. Or cold. But the beer, the beer is the same." - arramdaywalker
Dave Stark
#51 - 2012-12-12 15:35:30 UTC
Halin Damal wrote:
And what trade-off are you suggesting in return? Keep in mind that new players also need to get scanning skills before they can start a mining career.


all the time i lived in 0.0 mining, i had astrometrics II and no other scanning skills and i was able to find the grav sites from our indy upgrades without issue.

you don't really need scanning skills that much, at all.
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2012-12-12 15:37:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Gillia Winddancer
150% approval of the suggestion as it is part of the puzzle that I am fighting for as well.

Important question though to some: why does it have to be grav sites per se?

When it comes to minerals, it shouldn't matter what kind of site it is. Just let the type be completely random.

As for mineral distribution itself, like I suggested before, in 1.0 sec space, make ABC ores something that are extremely rare to find and usually in very small quantities only whilst in 0.0 it's far more common to find'em.

As for the static, evil belts of boredom, let them be but severely reduce them so they become a starting ground for new players.

And again, if only d-scan was sig radius based then these two ideas combined would give low-sec industry a very fair chance indeed. Specially as anomalies like these could then serve to hide ships in them from mere sweeping d-scan searches......or vice versa (again, assuming that local intel is slain like the evil beast that it is).

But alas, the interest is still very shallow for whatever reason despite the game pretty much having everything in place for this setup. The only real rework would be on the d-scan itself and maybe some slight tweaks on probes. That's pretty much it.

Oh yeah, and this setup would pretty much entirely eliminate botters as there would be absolutely NO way for them to properly identify signatures and determine whether they are players or something else.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#53 - 2012-12-12 15:38:49 UTC
Darenthul wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Yes. Hide the Ice in Exploration Sites.

Would be one of the best things for anti-bot efforts ever.

I honestly find it really, really weird this has not been done.


Wait.. didn't you quit EVE?

But yea, I agree, hiding anything in exploration sites would complicate things for bots across the board.


no he got banned then made an alt with the same last name

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Dave Stark
#54 - 2012-12-12 15:41:57 UTC
Darenthul wrote:
Scordite right now is absurd due to the Pyerite jump as of late.

unless something has happened while i've been at work today; pyerite has been dancing around 13 isk/unit ever since the drone region nerfs. hardly a recent price hike...
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#55 - 2012-12-12 15:42:03 UTC
Darenthul wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Schalac wrote:
I would agree with this if only veld was found in belts and all grav sites would have a certain percent of all ores. Also there would have to be at least 10-15 grav sites per constellation open at the same time with a respawn of at most 30 mins after one was depleted. Also the rats that are in the grav sites would have to be made sightly tougher so that you would need a combat escort or a tank on your barges. And sites would only be found in .8 space and lower.


thought veld was best isk/hour according to chribba


Nooooo. By far no.

Scordite right now is absurd due to the Pyerite jump as of late. Its ISK/Hour/m3 is amazing. Omber was actually high for a short time before Retribution but Isogen shortly crashed afterwards.



Kernite and Pyrox have both been better ISK/hour for WEEKS since the temporary Scordie Rush.

http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore

Again, please go stink up some other thread.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2012-12-12 15:43:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Darenthul wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Schalac wrote:
I would agree with this if only veld was found in belts and all grav sites would have a certain percent of all ores. Also there would have to be at least 10-15 grav sites per constellation open at the same time with a respawn of at most 30 mins after one was depleted. Also the rats that are in the grav sites would have to be made sightly tougher so that you would need a combat escort or a tank on your barges. And sites would only be found in .8 space and lower.


thought veld was best isk/hour according to chribba


Nooooo. By far no.

Scordite right now is absurd due to the Pyerite jump as of late. Its ISK/Hour/m3 is amazing. Omber was actually high for a short time before Retribution but Isogen shortly crashed afterwards.



Kernite and Pyrox have both been better ISK/hour for WEEKS since the temporary Scordie Rush.

http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore

Again, please go stink up some other thread.


Right now, the only person stinking up the thread is you with your little personal problem. Just put a bounty on him already and get it over with.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#57 - 2012-12-12 15:47:21 UTC
Darenthul wrote:
I'd actually like to see more specialized probes that only find specific types actually, and have higher strength for that type. I'd throw ISK at that in a heartbeat. Make them require a special probe launcher and high skills to use.
While I can certainly emphasize with the frustration of finding exactly the type of sites you are not looking for, hiding 'quality of life' improvements behind high skill requirements is not a design direction I'd like CCP to take.

You can already filter out what you don't want, and with good skills, it is fairly quick to narrow down and exclude the "unwanted" wormholes.

Competition for resources is one of the checks and balances for hi-sec. Making it easier to find a certain type of site is not going to have the effect many people would like. It will only increase competition for the most desired sites.

That being said, I wouldn't mind if the Deep Space probes could hit all wormholes in a system 100%.
Darenthul
Anstard Armory Inc.
#58 - 2012-12-12 15:51:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Darenthul
Pohbis wrote:
Darenthul wrote:
I'd actually like to see more specialized probes that only find specific types actually, and have higher strength for that type. I'd throw ISK at that in a heartbeat. Make them require a special probe launcher and high skills to use.
While I can certainly emphasize with the frustration of finding exactly the type of sites you are not looking for, hiding 'quality of life' improvements behind high skill requirements is not a design direction I'd like CCP to take.

You can already filter out what you don't want, and with good skills, it is fairly quick to narrow down and exclude the "unwanted" wormholes.

Competition for resources is one of the checks and balances for hi-sec. Making it easier to find a certain type of site is not going to have the effect many people would like. It will only increase competition for the most desired sites.

That being said, I wouldn't mind if the Deep Space probes could hit all wormholes in a system 100%.


No no, the suggestion is much deeper than that.

Effectively by filtering them, you can add a larger number of each type of site to the spawn table without oversaturation. The skill gap would mean new players wouldn't light up their scanners and BAM 30,000 registered sites, it'd mean they'd see a couple and have to check them out individually.

But for those who want to specifically hunt sites of one type or another, and potentially rare/valuable ones, we could focus our efforts into skills and equipment tailored for it.

Just think about it, we could literally have a prospecting profession for once, or a dedicated hacking/archeologist profession. It could even lead into new ship types tailored for such things (an Ore Prospecting ship? Come on! How awesome would that be?!)

"I find mining to be an incredibly relaxing thing to do after work. It's like fishing without waking up early. Or cold. But the beer, the beer is the same." - arramdaywalker
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2012-12-12 16:00:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Darenthul wrote:
Pohbis wrote:
Darenthul wrote:
I'd actually like to see more specialized probes that only find specific types actually, and have higher strength for that type. I'd throw ISK at that in a heartbeat. Make them require a special probe launcher and high skills to use.
While I can certainly emphasize with the frustration of finding exactly the type of sites you are not looking for, hiding 'quality of life' improvements behind high skill requirements is not a design direction I'd like CCP to take.

You can already filter out what you don't want, and with good skills, it is fairly quick to narrow down and exclude the "unwanted" wormholes.

Competition for resources is one of the checks and balances for hi-sec. Making it easier to find a certain type of site is not going to have the effect many people would like. It will only increase competition for the most desired sites.

That being said, I wouldn't mind if the Deep Space probes could hit all wormholes in a system 100%.


No no, the suggestion is much deeper than that.

Effectively by filtering them, you can add a larger number of each type of site to the spawn table without oversaturation. The skill gap would mean new players wouldn't light up their scanners and BAM 30,000 registered sites, it'd mean they'd see a couple and have to check them out individually.

But for those who want to specifically hunt sites of one type or another, and potentially rare/valuable ones, we could focus our efforts into skills and equipment tailored for it.

Just think about it, we could literally have a prospecting profession for once, or a dedicated hacking/archeologist profession.


I do like this suggestion, actually. You could leave existing exploration mechanics AS IS, with "common sites" available to regular scan probes, but then have a few extra "hard to find" sites that can only be found with the specifically tailored equipment and skills - that tailoring would then also filter what you can find, so you'll only actually see grav sites if you're using grav gear. Then you could move the rarer ores to "harder to find" grav sites, and miners would need to skill up in "prospecting" or something and have to actually scan them down first, improving the rewards for the amount of work put in and reducing rewards for laziness, with the added bonus of making it harder for botters.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Darenthul
Anstard Armory Inc.
#60 - 2012-12-12 16:02:38 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Darenthul wrote:
Pohbis wrote:
Darenthul wrote:
I'd actually like to see more specialized probes that only find specific types actually, and have higher strength for that type. I'd throw ISK at that in a heartbeat. Make them require a special probe launcher and high skills to use.
While I can certainly emphasize with the frustration of finding exactly the type of sites you are not looking for, hiding 'quality of life' improvements behind high skill requirements is not a design direction I'd like CCP to take.

You can already filter out what you don't want, and with good skills, it is fairly quick to narrow down and exclude the "unwanted" wormholes.

Competition for resources is one of the checks and balances for hi-sec. Making it easier to find a certain type of site is not going to have the effect many people would like. It will only increase competition for the most desired sites.

That being said, I wouldn't mind if the Deep Space probes could hit all wormholes in a system 100%.


No no, the suggestion is much deeper than that.

Effectively by filtering them, you can add a larger number of each type of site to the spawn table without oversaturation. The skill gap would mean new players wouldn't light up their scanners and BAM 30,000 registered sites, it'd mean they'd see a couple and have to check them out individually.

But for those who want to specifically hunt sites of one type or another, and potentially rare/valuable ones, we could focus our efforts into skills and equipment tailored for it.

Just think about it, we could literally have a prospecting profession for once, or a dedicated hacking/archeologist profession.


I do like this suggestion, actually. You could leave existing exploration mechanics AS IS, with "common sites" available to regular scan probes, but then have a few extra "hard to find" sites that can only be found with the specifically tailored equipment and skills - that tailoring would then also filter what you can find, so you'll only actually see grav sites if you're using grav gear. Then you could move the rarer ores to "harder to find" grav sites, and miners would need to skill up in "prospecting" or something and have to actually scan them down first, improving the rewards for the amount of work put in and reducing rewards for laziness, with the added bonus of making it harder for botters.


Exactly! There's be a large range of "general" sites for people to find like normal, but an even larger selection would be available for those who have skills tailored for it.

"I find mining to be an incredibly relaxing thing to do after work. It's like fishing without waking up early. Or cold. But the beer, the beer is the same." - arramdaywalker