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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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why cant we have mining moved to grav sites?

First post
Author
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#21 - 2012-12-12 14:45:07 UTC
Halin Damal wrote:
And what trade-off are you suggesting in return? Keep in mind that new players also need to get scanning skills before they can start a mining career.

1) More grav sites, and basic sites that contain all the ore types common to that region of space. The basic grav sites would have a big sig strength so as to be easy to find, like the test sites in the scanning tutorial.
2) A utility high slot on all barges and exhumers, along with the grid and CPU to make it useable. Can be used for a probe launcher or whatever.
3) A way to tell if a site is a grav, radar, mag, ladar, or wormhole long before you scan it down to the 25%-50% range.

Do all that and then, yes, mining could be moved to grav sites.

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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#22 - 2012-12-12 14:46:34 UTC
Ayumi Nevinyrall wrote:
Posting in a stealth "Nerf highsec" thread...


It wouldn't even be a nerf, it'd be moving stuff around to make the better rewards harder to acquire, or at least require more effort than - warp to belt > start mining > make isk.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#23 - 2012-12-12 14:48:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Vincent Athena wrote:
Halin Damal wrote:
And what trade-off are you suggesting in return? Keep in mind that new players also need to get scanning skills before they can start a mining career.

1) More grav sites, and basic sites that contain all the ore types common to that region of space. The basic grav sites would have a big sig strength so as to be easy to find, like the test sites in the scanning tutorial.
2) A utility high slot on all barges and exhumers, along with the grid and CPU to make it useable. Can be used for a probe launcher or whatever.
3) A way to tell if a site is a grav, radar, mag, ladar, or wormhole long before you scan it down to the 25%-50% range.

Do all that and then, yes, mining could be moved to grav sites.


The Venture already has a utility high that can be used for probe launchers.... maybe CCP is already pre-empting a change, considering how they designed the Venture. What else would you use an extra high for on a mining ship? Except for a cloak, of course, if you want to hide in a low sec pipeline while there are people in local.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Mirima Thurander
#24 - 2012-12-12 14:49:53 UTC
See I was think if it was changed to grab sites possible tie the sites to the constlations there's a set number but they are constantly moving about the star group, as there depleted.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#25 - 2012-12-12 14:52:42 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Everything should be mined out of the belts by now, and its not like we would have any less ore around when a sites used and despawns, new ones show up.

Leave the trait in the belts in small roids for noobs.


I consider EVE mining to simply be a loose representation of reality. if you think of our own real life asteroid belt (which is what, basically space junk and leftovers from planetary formation (or put another way an unformed PLANET), even if the whole earth population had Hulks (it could happen, most humans are carebears :) ) it take a long long long time to "mine" it all, probably multiple millennia.

The respawning belts of EVE are just easier to code than a septillion ton of depletable space rock :) .
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#26 - 2012-12-12 14:53:05 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Halin Damal wrote:
And what trade-off are you suggesting in return? Keep in mind that new players also need to get scanning skills before they can start a mining career.

1) More grav sites, and basic sites that contain all the ore types common to that region of space. The basic grav sites would have a big sig strength so as to be easy to find, like the test sites in the scanning tutorial.
2) A utility high slot on all barges and exhumers, along with the grid and CPU to make it useable. Can be used for a probe launcher or whatever.
3) A way to tell if a site is a grav, radar, mag, ladar, or wormhole long before you scan it down to the 25%-50% range.

Do all that and then, yes, mining could be moved to grav sites.


The Venture already has a utility high that can be used for probe launchers.... maybe CCP is already pre-empting a change, considering how they designed the Venture. What else would you use an extra high for on a mining ship? Except for a cloak, of course, if you want to hide in a low sec pipeline while there are people in local.

That is the purpose of the high on the Venture. Its a low sec Ninja mining vessel. But a probe launcher for new grav sites would be good too.
However, the Venture cannot mount both a cloak and a probe launcher. So if roids move to grav sites only, the venture will have a much harder time fulfilling its role as a Ninja miner.

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Mirima Thurander
#27 - 2012-12-12 14:53:31 UTC
Your thinking about it all wrong, we don't need to give ALL the barges the ability to scan sites that's just silly, leave that for normal, or your combat escort, because we adding new grab sites we would be adding more NPCs that if not dealt with can build up enough DPS to kill barges.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#28 - 2012-12-12 14:54:42 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Ayumi Nevinyrall wrote:
Posting in a stealth "Nerf highsec" thread...


It wouldn't even be a nerf, it'd be moving stuff around to make the better rewards harder to acquire, or at least require more effort than - warp to belt > start mining > make isk.


Jesus, now I'm agreeing with Remiel Pollard, is anyone else's feet getting cold or is it just my own personal hell that froze over?
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#29 - 2012-12-12 14:54:57 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
Darenthul wrote:
Also throw in the fact there are barely enough grav sites as is.. I scanned down a dozen systems last night, low traveled ones too, and only one found and it was already being mined. (Full skilled, full setup scanning ship I should note)


That's just luck, all I ever get is grav sites and I have no interest in them ¬¬


I usually get wormholes, and I have no interest in them Ugh



Indeed. I have alwys felt WH Exploration needs a different set of Probes or different mechanic to find them.

Throwing their finding into the same mix as Industrial and 'simple' Combat activities seems a bit simplistic on CCP's part. When I want minerals, decryptors, and the like, Exploration makes sense. WH activites, although they have those sites too, is just an entirely different animal requiring entirely different logistical issues than regular exploratioin sites.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Mirima Thurander
#30 - 2012-12-12 14:57:36 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Everything should be mined out of the belts by now, and its not like we would have any less ore around when a sites used and despawns, new ones show up.

Leave the trait in the belts in small roids for noobs.


I consider EVE mining to simply be a loose representation of reality. if you think of our own real life asteroid belt (which is what, basically space junk and leftovers from planetary formation (or put another way an unformed PLANET), even if the whole earth population had Hulks (it could happen, most humans are carebears :) ) it take a long long long time to "mine" it all, probably multiple millennia.

The respawning belts of EVE are just easier to code than a septillion ton of depletable space rock :) .

Its written in the lore than most high sec belts are full of worthless roids, because they have been mines to all most nothing, why do you think ore moved to deep space to mine.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#31 - 2012-12-12 14:57:42 UTC
In Eve asteroid fields are actually just places where debris collects. Debris from exploded ships. Its a circle of life thing.

Ships explode.
The gas and dust wanders about the solar system, and collects at certain stable locations.
New asteroids form there.
We mine them and make more ships.
Cycle repeats.

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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#32 - 2012-12-12 15:00:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Vincent Athena wrote:
In Eve asteroid fields are actually just places where debris collects. Debris from exploded ships. Its a circle of life thing.

Ships explode.
The gas and dust wanders about the solar system, and collects at certain stable locations.
New asteroids form there.
We mine them and make more ships.
Cycle repeats.



That would take millenia, if at all, to happen. Would be more like a monstrously large volume Salvaging Site.




edit: like the Plastic Sargasso in the Pacific Ocean.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Mirima Thurander
#33 - 2012-12-12 15:01:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Mirima Thurander
So no one truly hates this plan of action?

I haven't seen any one point our no horrible flaws in the System.
Besides cluttering up the scanning system but that can be solved with a new set of probes.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

Darenthul
Anstard Armory Inc.
#34 - 2012-12-12 15:02:44 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
So no one truly hates this plan of action?


We've all come to the conclusion exploration is dated, crude, and poorly implemented in the current scheme of things. Its an old system that needs updating as much as the next.

When I get caught up here at work in a bit I'll begin writing a proposal and link it from here (for the ideas/features forum) and we'll see what kind of support we get going.

"I find mining to be an incredibly relaxing thing to do after work. It's like fishing without waking up early. Or cold. But the beer, the beer is the same." - arramdaywalker

Alara IonStorm
#35 - 2012-12-12 15:04:51 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
So no one truly hates this plan of action?

Depends on if the mineral supply lessens. Ships are already expensive enough, I don't want to pay 80mil for a Cruiser fit.
Mirima Thurander
#36 - 2012-12-12 15:05:52 UTC
Darenthul wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
So no one truly hates this plan of action?


We've all come to the conclusion exploration is dated, crude, and poorly implemented in the current scheme of things. Its an old system that needs updating as much as the next.

When I get caught up here at work in a bit I'll begin writing a proposal and link it from here (for the ideas/features forum) and we'll see what kind of support we get going.


I agree as well.

The can fix that at the same time as they do this change as it would go hand in hand.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

Darenthul
Anstard Armory Inc.
#37 - 2012-12-12 15:06:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Darenthul
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
So no one truly hates this plan of action?

Depends on if the mineral supply lessens. Ships are already expensive enough, I don't want to pay 80mil for a Cruiser fit.


Honestly, I think such suggestions wouldn't directly impact mineral flow, it would just personalize fields more and make them less public. You can always have crappy fields with really low requirements show on ship scanners.

"I find mining to be an incredibly relaxing thing to do after work. It's like fishing without waking up early. Or cold. But the beer, the beer is the same." - arramdaywalker

Mirima Thurander
#38 - 2012-12-12 15:08:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Mirima Thurander
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
So no one truly hates this plan of action?

Depends on if the mineral supply lessens. Ships are already expensive enough, I don't want to pay 80mil for a Cruiser fit.

There would be no less, but at the start there would probably be a Increase as people reorganized then it would go back to normal.
I'm not suggesting any less just going about obtaining them in a less open way, look at what we have now an endless supply of barges sitting in belts never moving.

This system would encourage movement between systems moving to keep up with the moving grav sites.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#39 - 2012-12-12 15:09:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Vincent Athena wrote:
In Eve asteroid fields are actually just places where debris collects. Debris from exploded ships. Its a circle of life thing.

Ships explode.
The gas and dust wanders about the solar system, and collects at certain stable locations.
New asteroids form there.
We mine them and make more ships.
Cycle repeats.


In it's own weird way, this makes sense, because in EVE, the planets don't move (something I think the devs should look at fixing), but in physics, it doesn't make sense for solar systems to have one-stop shop "centers of mass" where stuff collects.

As the planets move, they don't actually orbit the sun, they orbit a central gravitational point stabilised by the comined gravitational influences of the sun and its planets, and they do NOT change the COM of a solar system. They orbit around the COM. That's why the COM is such a good origin for planetary orbit calculations. (The COM does move in space, as the solar system orbits in the galaxy. But this motion does not have any "wiggles" in it as the planets and Sun orbit around the COM.)

Other COMs will establish, however, and be variable, throughout the solar system, influenced by the variations of gravity between planets and their moons. The moon's gravity, for example, doesn't just cause the tides on earth, but it gives earth a "wobble" as it orbits the sun. While the COM between the earth and the moon falls within the earth itself, as opposed to the sol system's COM falling outside the sun, many other such COMs would exist where matter could collect, but then disperse as the COM disappeared. Additionally, the more matter that collects in one place, the more mass it gathers, and subsequently, more gravity, which causes an exponential increase in the build up of matter.

So it would actually make more sense to have asteroids and stuff collect at more random locations than in the exact same place every day, physically speaking, if the planets were moving. But because the planets aren't moving.... well, that fact alone just doesn't make any sense at all P

EVE physics - it's actually a submarine simulator

EDIT: Just remembered the name for the solar system's COM - the barycenter

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#40 - 2012-12-12 15:13:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Jenn aSide wrote:
Jesus, now I'm agreeing with Remiel Pollard, is anyone else's feet getting cold or is it just my own personal hell that froze over?

Please, let me see your "personal hell".

:giggity:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
look at what we have now an endless supply of barges sitting in belts never moving.

Working as intended ... ?

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