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Please describe the reason to field supercapitals after this nerf?

All combat in eve is consensual; both sides agree the fight. (there are very few number of fights where the opposing force does not decide to go in but gets involved in the fight).

Team A fights team B. Team A has large supercapital fleet. B knows this. B knows that fielding capitals is suicide so they will not do this. Team A has supercapital fleet, but they have nothing to shoot them with.

=> supercarriers will become pos ornaments, with nothing to shoot at.

You describe the awesome situtation where you have tackled supercapital fleet and you are going to kill them all because of the agression timer. In reality, this won't happen because the supercapitals will not be on. Shooting structures is already boring and if thats the only thing these ships will be good at, you wont see them in combat.

If titan gun tracking will be nerfed aswel, there is no reason to field them on combat either.

and: the side having supercapitals has lot of pilots stuck in ship that is useless for the fight and cannot swap into usefull ship as the ships are unable to dock.

The problem here is not capital ships. The problem here is people not understand fleet comp. A 60 man fleet of Muninns, Hictors, and scimitars can kill 3 super carriers with ease. If your not shooting their drones and letting them DPS you, how is that their fault ?

It may take a while to kill them but once they have no drones and no cap they're sitting ducks. Its not about a ship being to powerful. If a fleet of nothing but T2 cruisers can kill them, I wouldn't go to the extreme lengths to **** on them like is happening here.

That was in response to comments saying that Alliances that can put out large numbers of them won't be able to fight without them. People forget that most people who can fly supers can fly many other ships. Just because they drops supers now doesn't mean they will be ineffective without them. So for someone thinking that this is going to topple a large alliance is foolish. This isn't going to make taking sov from them any easier.

I'm also not saying I agree with this update at all. As you can see from my many other comments in this thread

Agreed, sort of. The current situation with SCs being able to **** out ~1800 drones is pretty dumb, you could be shooting drones all day before they run out.

If SCs could field a limited number of drones though, this argument definitely applies. Just look at that Rooks and Kings video where they fight a bunch of hostile dreads and carriers-- they warp in a few smartbombing Geddons on top of the carrier the hostiles had primaried and blammo-- a couple of bomb-cycles later the hostiles have no drones left. Bombers and anti-support BCs, HACs, etc can all kill hostile drones / fighters / FB as well.

Hell, even without going after the drones, a well-run Welpfleet can demolish supercaps with relative ease and extreme cost-efficiency. Why do you think no hostiles have been fielding supercaps in Delve lately? Hint: its not because supercarriers are overpowered pwn mobiles that can't be killed due to their ability to field drones...

That would be a nerf I could live with.

Could you please add a removal of immunities when operating in empire space?

Thank you.

When you pay 20 something billion isk for a super and then have it nerfed to the point of useless, you really expect people to not be upset ?

Honestly who cares what the game was like 7 years ago ? That was before the ship existed. People have put countless amounts of isk into a ship type that has many uses and now its going to be epic fail at all of them EXCEPT killing other caps ?

There are other ways of fixing a problem that don't involve destroying every ship bigger than a battleship and wasting years of skill training.

Good to see that when one runs out of rational (or irrational, for that matter) arguments, continued trolling is always an option.

Don't cause yourself too much worry over the future of my e-peen. My SC sits flaccid most of the time as it is. I am, however, always hard for subcaps.

And CCP is saying that if your going to kill capitals in this ship class you better be part of a large alliance or coalition capable of providing safety in numbers.

They are also saying that the group with the biggest sub cap blob (Goons and TEST) will be able to dominate large scale PVP.

My Thoughts,

I believe titan guns need nerfed - the ability for titans to be remote sensor boosted and trackling linked while unable to e-war'd in return is entirely broken. The fights earlier this year consisted of bait out the battleship gang then bring in X number of titans relative to the hostile fleet size, DD command and logi and then they would ALPHA STRIKE BATTLESHIPS AND CRUISERS OFF THE FIELD because they would be remote boosted and supported by superarriers which themselves would not kill anything but they would remote sensor boost and tracking enhance the titans while their guns completely destroyed the hostile fleets. In those instances the supercarriers would rarely deploy a drone of any kind and did not need to.

I believe the drone nerfing for supers will not have a major effect, that the fighter sig resolution nerf is silly as usually tracking on fighters usually mitigates that problem anyway. Also one of the problems ive noticed with fighterbombers is that they cannot be killed, even away from the supercarrier they've instantly redocked / warped off - you should be able to tackle and bubble fighterbombers and kill them.

Dreads - the moros has cap issues as is a ROF bonus is going to make that worse. the rest is good

Titans, i agree with the DD nerf but i believe the tracking for titans needs to be investigated further - my suggestion is to rebalance all the titan guns to be the same as in siege and at current then remove the tracking debuff from the siege modules, not like dreads ever needed the tracking for their dismal dps out of siege anyway.

the logoff mechanics i believe will be a double edged sword that will prevent the use of these giant expensive ships even further and with the way the game works will become a kind of highlander like scenario once the powerblocks actually commit to fighting with them.


My personal opinion is
Supercarriers - remove the supercapital portion(remove the e-war immunity, allow to dock, remove remote ecm burst, siege module for fighterbombers, lower their HP) - make fighterbombers easier to kill

Titans, I agree with the proposed DD nerf - remove the gun dps bonus, implement siege module - basically its an oversized dreadnaught taxi thing.

Dreads - same as above

Logoff same as above

and my personal wishlist item - docking in capitals

Concept any ship that has a ship maint bay could have other players dock their ship rather than just store it - then all docked players jump with the capital when it moves.

I believe it could be implemented as part of walking in stations, allowing corp / alliance / fleet members within the same station to somehow share a lobby and board into carriers that would give a captains quarters environment to the docked players while the capital is in space that they can undock / redock from and they would travel with the ship.

I believe a large portion of supercapitals being game breaking in their current form is the macro's and bots that have farmed the resources to build these very expensive ships. which leads to...

The issue of botting has lead to the constant argument of removing local chat from updating players until they talk. I do not agree with making known space local like W-Space, it would allow cloaky griefing on a catastrophic scale, its already bad enough as is. I believe the compromise is delaying local chat by maybe 5-15min could have a large impact in catching bots. Also im sure bots could easily enough be recognized by statistics, and once recognized that they test the user with a simple read this then type thing like the forums do to prevent robots from registering or hot linking.

Now as this is not short and sweet i doubt it will be read by anyone
-GeeBee