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New dev blog: Capital ship balancing

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Author
northwesten
Trinity Corporate Services
Terran United Federation
#741 - 2011-10-11 05:48:52 UTC
Ok now the small guys can really play. ATM I am inactive and I haven't really been interested in playing EVE for the past 5 months.

I really didn't like the Direction how EVE was going and CCP was NOT listening to the public.

Now I have been reading the changes I am VERY impressed with this. Thing is they better do these changes and most of all the log off crap. That annoys me the most.

Though I not going to rejoin until I see these changes done. Miss eve for sure tho :(
Velin Dhal
Zeonic CG
#742 - 2011-10-11 05:49:51 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:

Bo-ho, cry a river or a nile.

And remember kids; don't buy what you can't afford to have nerfed.


Um, ok. Don't mind me when I nationalize your bank and confiscate all your wealth. Guess you shouldn't have worked for what you couldn't guarantee wouldn't be nationalized, sucker. Deal wiz it.

Rakshasa Taisab wrote:

You can barely afford a titan and then try to mock me as a poor mission runner? lol

Learn to live with change, else you'll always be the failure you are.


I'm suggesting that, like 90% of EVEO, you're probably not qualified to speak on the subject of supercap balancing. If you don't own or even interact with the types of ships and gameplay in question, your opinions on the subject aren't all that valuable.

I'd also like to point out that I have no problem with change, as long as those affected have an opportunity to avoid being r aped by it.


Rakshasa Taisab wrote:

Yes you are, you are suggesting they be left as they are.


I'm not sure how suggesting their drone capacity be reduced from ~1750 to 60 counts as "suggesting they be left as they are," but by all means feel free to explain your logic to us.



1. Good point

2. Totally Agree

3. I think a non fighter and fighter bomber penalty to damage would be more effective.
Velin Dhal
Zeonic CG
#743 - 2011-10-11 05:51:56 UTC
northwesten wrote:
Ok now the small guys can really play. ATM I am inactive and I haven't really been interested in playing EVE for the past 5 months.

I really didn't like the Direction how EVE was going and CCP was NOT listening to the public.

Now I have been reading the changes I am VERY impressed with this. Thing is they better do these changes and most of all the log off crap. That annoys me the most.

Though I not going to rejoin until I see these changes done. Miss eve for sure tho :(


If you don't even play the game then why should anyone listen to your opinion ? Not to be a complete ******* but seriously ? If you don't even pay for the game or play it why should your opinion matter ? On the promise that you'll "think" about coming back if this happens ?
Premeir Eden
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#744 - 2011-10-11 05:54:57 UTC
I love most of the changes, but i do not think the dreads are getting enough attention. when something is named dreadnought, it should be awe inspiring, and very scary. when it shows up in a battle, players should feel dread, hence the name dreadnought!
Relnala
Perkone
Caldari State
#745 - 2011-10-11 05:55:45 UTC
My only concern is, with gank fit Moros out-DPSing all the SCs... what niche do SCs have again at 7x the cost?

They can't hit subcaps
They can't even carry enough fighters to threaten battleships significantly
They cant hit towers
They have no personal defensive ability

I was looking forward to the SC nerf somewhat, but true to colors, CCP nerfs too much.

TBH, they kinda sound like bait ships.
Magic Crisp
Amarrian Micro Devices
#746 - 2011-10-11 05:57:16 UTC
Dear CCP,

I have a concern here on the dreads. Dreads are not used within fleet fights because it's impossible to keep them alive. Without siege mode they don't really do more damage than a good battleship, but BSs can be moved around using regular gates and much more agile. When they go to siege mode, they just die, becuase the tanking bonus of the siege module is useless above a small fleet's scale.

So, as I've experienced, the problem with fielding dreads in large fleets, and against supercaps, is the tanking, they just can't be kept alive. If you could find a fair way for the dreads to recieve logistics AND do a decent damage, that'd be a start.

As a second point, carriers could hit smaller targets with fighters, that was pretty nice in small fleets. Smaller targets, like cruiser-sized vessels. Weren't 100% hitrate, but still was decent enough to be effective. If you nerf this even more, this might cause an issue.
Akara Ito
Phalanx Solutions
#747 - 2011-10-11 05:58:01 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:

Bo-ho, cry a river or a nile.

And remember kids; don't buy what you can't afford to have nerfed.


Um, ok. Don't mind me when I nationalize your bank and confiscate all your wealth. Guess you shouldn't have worked for what you couldn't guarantee wouldn't be nationalized, sucker. Deal wiz it.

Rakshasa Taisab wrote:

You can barely afford a titan and then try to mock me as a poor mission runner? lol

Learn to live with change, else you'll always be the failure you are.


I'm suggesting that, like 90% of EVEO, you're probably not qualified to speak on the subject of supercap balancing. If you don't own or even interact with the types of ships and gameplay in question, your opinions on the subject aren't all that valuable.

I'd also like to point out that I have no problem with change, as long as those affected have an opportunity to avoid being r aped by it.


Rakshasa Taisab wrote:

Yes you are, you are suggesting they be left as they are.


I'm not sure how suggesting their drone capacity be reduced from ~1750 to 60 counts as "suggesting they be left as they are," but by all means feel free to explain your logic to us.


The "supercaps cant use drones nerf "means they have to get a supportfleet to survive.
That said this is probably the best and easiest to realize way to achieve that goal.


Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
RONA Directorate
#748 - 2011-10-11 05:58:43 UTC
Relnala wrote:
My only concern is, with gank fit Moros out-DPSing all the SCs... what niche do SCs have again at 7x the cost?

They can't hit subcaps
They can't even carry enough fighters to threaten battleships significantly
They cant hit towers
They have no personal defensive ability

I was looking forward to the SC nerf somewhat, but true to colors, CCP nerfs too much.

TBH, they kinda sound like bait ships.



First you are thinking of the nyx. moros is a dread

next

fighters can still hit subcaps with good support, so have your friends in hugginns near by.

20 fighters can and does hurt, 25 if you put on the +1 modules.

hitting towers - thats a dread's job anyway.

- as stated above have friends fly with you, they are not meant to be solo pwn mobiles. have some support by and all is well.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.

CALPEPE
WALLTREIPERS
The Initiative.
#749 - 2011-10-11 05:59:17 UTC
CCP

At least people who have supers, you could allow us to dock for reprocessing.

My wife will be happy with an account unless to pay.
Velin Dhal
Zeonic CG
#750 - 2011-10-11 06:03:17 UTC


The "supercaps cant use drones nerf "means they have to get a supportfleet to survive.
That said this is probably the best and easiest to realize way to achieve that goal.


[/quote]

No ship should be 100% reliant on other ships to survive
Draahk Chimera
Supervillains
#751 - 2011-10-11 06:05:11 UTC
Relnala wrote:
My only concern is, with gank fit Moros out-DPSing all the SCs... what niche do SCs have again at 7x the cost?

They can't hit subcaps
They can't even carry enough fighters to threaten battleships significantly
They cant hit towers
They have no personal defensive ability

I was looking forward to the SC nerf somewhat, but true to colors, CCP nerfs too much.

TBH, they kinda sound like bait ships.


It's about fitting into a fleet. Guardians is currently extremely useful ships but you wouldn't go to a fleetfight in only guardians would you?

404 - Image not found

CUBErt Doowkcalb
BlackWatch Industrial Group
Reckless Contingency.
#752 - 2011-10-11 06:06:39 UTC
CALPEPE wrote:
CCP

At least people who have supers, you could allow us to dock for reprocessing.

My wife will be happy with an account unless to pay.


Or give us a pos mod for reprocessing them. I'm sure plenty of us have no use for them now.
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#753 - 2011-10-11 06:09:46 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Um, ok. Don't mind me when I nationalize your bank and confiscate all your wealth. Guess you shouldn't have worked for what you couldn't guarantee wouldn't be nationalized, sucker. Deal wiz it.

Exactly.

If I didn't foresee the possibility of nationalization (or more likely, bankrupting of a bank) leading to a loss of deposited money, then sucks to be me.

Part of having a lot of money is knowing how to move it around, and you suck at it. Didn't sell your SC's months ago? Then you fail at reading the direction of the game.

Ganthrithor wrote:
I'm suggesting that, like 90% of EVEO, you're probably not qualified to speak on the subject of supercap balancing. If you don't own or even interact with the types of ships and gameplay in question, your opinions on the subject aren't all that valuable.

Sign of desperation; calling the other side a carebear.

Learn to adapt, or you'll never survive in 0.0.

Ganthrithor wrote:
I'm not sure how suggesting their drone capacity be reduced from ~1750 to 60 counts as "suggesting they be left as they are," but by all means feel free to explain your logic to us.

That doesn't fix the issues with SC~

Nyan

malet
ATHANOR AQUISISTIONS
Dead Terrorists
#754 - 2011-10-11 06:14:33 UTC
kralz wrote:
CCP for real, when this goes live, can i have a pop up window asking me if i want to be refuned both isk for the carrier and capital mod skill books and every single SP i invest in them? all of my training is cap oriented with every account and every toon, this patch totally ruins my game...

carrier pve ruined...and no one is gonna buy carriers, so my bpos are worthless, SC are utterly worthless, wasted toon, just lemme go back about 2 years of sp and relocate skills and i may keep playing, i trained my skills on known ship pros and cons....note i fly a nyx....its really not fair that i should have 5 accounts totally screwed over because some whiny noobs cant compete.

its cool tho, goons have won the game indeed.

does CCP actually play the game? in any way? or is there some really strong drug in jove space us mere us cannot dare to try? i mean are u guys really really this stupid?



Best post here tbh, Just goes to prove CCP are not playing the game. You are listening to the whiners . I have 3 accounts that are supercaptial trained, 2 titan and 1 nyx. Why should we suffer just because you fail to get a grip on what is happening in the game.

I have to agree i would like to see a pop up window asking if i would like all my skills for supercaps reallocated all the isk and time reimbursed. You have truly become detached from the wonderful game that you have created. Such a shame but at least star wars galaxies is out soon,, along with BF3, guess then you will see a few more unemployed GM`s in Iceland as i suspect a lot of people leaving this game in disgust.

Most of the whine comes from the people that don`` have the foresight to compete, and the ex northern coalition that gorged all their isk instead of investing it in super cap production for their alliances. Now they are homeless and bitching about it. So what do you do? You punish the people that invested time and money in their people.

The stealth carrier nerf is a joke, even CCP say in their blog to bring carriers to the field, why would you do that. The fighter nerf just makes them a large hauler to move ships around. Thats it.

You are killing the game and driving your player base to other forms of entertainment such as bf3 / s.wars etc. If that was your intention then good job!! Good luck with DUST514, If your lucky you may have a subscriber base of 50k people left.

And one final thing, if you think supercaps are too hard to kill, stick them up against a malestrom fleet of a welp fleet of canes, then come back to me and tell me they cant be killed!!!!

Dont expect any more cash from my wallet, or allow us 1 docking to reporcess these now completely useless ships and give us our skillpoints back
Premeir Eden
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#755 - 2011-10-11 06:14:50 UTC
Magic Crisp wrote:
Dear CCP,

I have a concern here on the dreads. Dreads are not used within fleet fights because it's impossible to keep them alive. Without siege mode they don't really do more damage than a good battleship, but BSs can be moved around using regular gates and much more agile. When they go to siege mode, they just die, becuase the tanking bonus of the siege module is useless above a small fleet's scale.

So, as I've experienced, the problem with fielding dreads in large fleets, and against supercaps, is the tanking, they just can't be kept alive. If you could find a fair way for the dreads to recieve logistics AND do a decent damage, that'd be a start.

As a second point, carriers could hit smaller targets with fighters, that was pretty nice in small fleets. Smaller targets, like cruiser-sized vessels. Weren't 100% hitrate, but still was decent enough to be effective. If you nerf this even more, this might cause an issue.


i just thought of a solution for dreads! just boost damage for dreads, pretty much give em all a base gun damage bonus, like the nightmare's 100% damage bonus, nothing too crazy though. figure out a way to boost their survivability, probally repair bonus or something. (resist bonus?) also give 'em back their drones at least, make 'em as sad as they were before their "boost" at least. if they are "overpowered", just put them back and change their name to something more wimpy, like carenought or something.
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#756 - 2011-10-11 06:14:50 UTC
Akara Ito wrote:
[quote=Ganthrithor]
The "supercaps cant use drones nerf "means they have to get a supportfleet to survive.
That said this is probably the best and easiest to realize way to achieve that goal.


This is my point-- a SC being able to field, for example, two flights of light drones, a flight of mediums, and a flight of heavies is not going to allow them to operate without subcap support. It's not problematic. Allowing them to field limitless waves of whatever drones they want is problematic.

Dominixes can field several flights of drones. Noone would argue that Dominixes are overpowered. Clearing off a couple of waves of drones is no big deal. Clearing off hundreds of waves is a bigger problem. Fixing SCs in fleet fights doesn't require removing all of their drones, just 90% of them.

That said, if you actually look at fleet battles I think you'll see that Titans are a much bigger problem than Supercarriers under current mechanics. Why would you bring a SC and rely on drones, with their bugginess, travel time, and ability to be bombed / shot, to shoot at subcaps when you could simply bring Titans and one-volley battleship after battleship with your giant, tracking-linked guns?

I find it funny that CCP are taking such initiative in addressing a lesser problem while (so far) ignoring the most glaring one of the lot (though at least the DD restrictions are a step in the right direction).
Velin Dhal
Zeonic CG
#757 - 2011-10-11 06:15:40 UTC
I think it is quite apparent that by implementing this update CCP is alienating a decent amount of it player base. It may not be the mass majority but its enough to greatly affect this game in a negative way.

Lets have a re-evaluation of this update and not just say this is how it is. Deal with it. CCP promised to listen to its player base more. Well here is the chance to listen. MANY players are obviously opposed to this update. Seeming that just about everyone who actually owns a Carrier, SC or Titan that is posting here is disagreeing with this update, that should mean something.
Meeogi
Lone Star Privateers
#758 - 2011-10-11 06:18:04 UTC
I don't like the basic fighter Nerf one bit...Aren't fighters supposed to kill battleships? You bring a logi carrier to a sub cap fight... fighters seem pretty useless now.

Dread/logofski/superfighter bay was nice though.
Meeogi
Lone Star Privateers
#759 - 2011-10-11 06:20:12 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Akara Ito wrote:
[quote=Ganthrithor]
The "supercaps cant use drones nerf "means they have to get a supportfleet to survive.
That said this is probably the best and easiest to realize way to achieve that goal.


This is my point-- a SC being able to field, for example, two flights of light drones, a flight of mediums, and a flight of heavies is not going to allow them to operate without subcap support. It's not problematic. Allowing them to field limitless waves of whatever drones they want is problematic.

Dominixes can field several flights of drones. Noone would argue that Dominixes are overpowered. Clearing off a couple of waves of drones is no big deal. Clearing off hundreds of waves is a bigger problem. Fixing SCs in fleet fights doesn't require removing all of their drones, just 90% of them.

That said, if you actually look at fleet battles I think you'll see that Titans are a much bigger problem than Supercarriers under current mechanics. Why would you bring a SC and rely on drones, with their bugginess, travel time, and ability to be bombed / shot, to shoot at subcaps when you could simply bring Titans and one-volley battleship after battleship with your giant, tracking-linked guns?

I find it funny that CCP are taking such initiative in addressing a lesser problem while (so far) ignoring the most glaring one of the lot (though at least the DD restrictions are a step in the right direction).



Well.... I guess if you shoot the titans tracking linked ships.... the Titan would be as worthless to a sub cap fleet....as shooting a supers fighters.
Officer Nyota Uhura
#760 - 2011-10-11 06:22:34 UTC
ToXicPaIN wrote:
with what weapon can a Titan and a Dread now fight vs. Sub-Caps ??


Sir:

I think you have misunderstood the role of Titans and Dreads.