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New Dev Blog: Carebearing 2.0

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AstarothPrime
Pecunia Infinita
#501 - 2012-04-16 13:29:21 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


You do realise that 0.0 belts are full to bursting with low and mid-level ores, right? Seriously, go and have a look - the veldspar rocks are almost moon-sized.



He is pointing out that he would like veldspar to appear in hidden belts... noone mines regular ones due to lack of security...

There is no veld in hidden belts, therefore noone mines it in null ;) Plus itll get trickyer to transport veld now. Plush held 3200 in 1m3, meaning 1:32 compression ratio, now itll be very very interesting seeing how will you supply it to deep null...

General problem isnt anything except veld and pye (maybe mexallon sometimes but uber rarely). You just need billions of m3 of it to build anything decent (such as supercarrier / titan or such)...

I.
Deathwing Reborn
#502 - 2012-04-16 13:58:58 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
ALI Virgo wrote:
Removal of drone alloy will make maco bots very rich in high sec.

Balance the ores in belts Less of low ended minerals that are mined by maco miners in high sec and Alot more of it in remote regions

Null secs/ Drone sec should have more Tritanium and Mexallon.

Drone secs have no Kernite or Plagioclase. Very small amounts in hidden belts

Atleat add Kernite and Plagioclase to drone regions and have null sec Valdspar have more yield. Those rocks pop too fast.

Consider adding all rock types in drone secs also all ice types be nice too.. more for players and rogue drones to infest

Perhaps later on it be nice to see drone factions and missions and exclusive modules bpcs. Expanded to drone stroy based incursions

"Resistance is futile" :)


You do realise that 0.0 belts are full to bursting with low and mid-level ores, right? Seriously, go and have a look - the veldspar rocks are almost moon-sized.



I mined a veldspar asteroid yesterday that was as large as the King Spod and I busted it in a few cycles. The problem isnt the number of rocks or how "LARGE" they are when there isnt crap in them. Give us some rocks that have equivalent m3 in them and then you can claim this.
Deathwing Reborn
#503 - 2012-04-16 14:03:25 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Daioh Azu wrote:

Any increase in mining yield will be utilized where it have always been utilized, to mine the most valuable ore available.


0.0 belts don't have infinite amounts of every ore. Once all the ABCM is gone, it's gone until the belt respawns (2x a week?). If the values of other ores are worth undocking the Hulks for, they'll get mined.



You obviously are not a miner so you should really stop talking like you know something.

You can completely mine out a hidden belt and have it respawn when finished. The problem is that the ABC-Lowsec ore is what takes the most time. You can mine our all of the high sec ore in 15 min with 2-3 miners and thats a conservative estimate. The problem is there is very little m3 of high sec ore in the belts. There are large #'s of ore in them but for high sec ore you mine thousands of veldspar in one cycle but very little m3.

The problem is you have to spend hours upon hours mining all the ABC-lowsec ore just to cycle it enough times to get the high sec ore you need.
Deathwing Reborn
#504 - 2012-04-16 14:50:26 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
[quote=Deathwing Reborn]
In order:

- We'd very much *like* for everyone to keep their extra accounts subscribed, but we *expect* that many people will decide that it's not worth the effort of dual-boxing for ratting/anoms once their targets have bounties. That's just a consequence of the bulk of the wealth no longer being tied up in alloys.

- I agree that we're talking about 5-10% income at best, and again we're still of the opinion that this is probably balanced out nicely by the generally superior truesec values Smile

- I take the point that things sometimes take a long time to come to pass, but we're still not seeing that the loot issue is something that really needs addressing. We'd rather spend the time it'd take to add a bunch of loot tables fixing something else more pressing with the rogue drone.

- We totally agree that the drone commanders aren't worth what they should be, but again that's an old issue that's not directly impacted by these changes.

- Let me explain it this way: if you order all the sites in a given region today by sec value, they should (I think) keep that order after the change. This plus the image in the blog should let you ballpark the shifts you're likely to see. The changes are on Singularity if you want to look them up - system sec should be listed in the system tooltip so you can check the whole thing out from the map view.



I just got tired of arguing these problems Greyscale. I still find it funny that the more people I talk to in drone lands are "in favor" of your changes until I explain to them the actual changes you have in store for us. The moment they realize they did not read the entire thread they have the same WTF is CCP thinking comment that I made.

You have answered all my questions to my satisfaction other than the reason you give for not giving us loot tables. How hard would it be to put into Lore that Rogue Drones have attacked all other races at some point so now they drop loot from all factions or something like that? Copy and paste the loot tables at random from the other factions into the drone NPCs and poof your done. Sure you might have to copy and paste for 100 NPC's or something but if that takes more than a day or two mabe a week at most for one Dev then something is wrong.

I also think you over estimate the ammount of people in Drone regions that will salvage after bounties. Most people that have a salvager alt have them trained for PI and other meanial tasks that make them half way profitable to retain. If their only purpose after bounties is PI and other meanial tasks that were only a buffer to the larger role of salvaging then they will probably cancel them and not loot. My point is that you are simply not giving us the option and forcing our hand. So any of those people (myself included) that might have retained their account to salvage you just told to go **** off. I foresee many a WTF threads being created once the patch goes live and people do their first site and get "NO LOOT?".

If that is how CCP intendes to do things I guess thats your choice. You probably won't see a general uprising like the Incarna incident, mainly because people in drone lands have not come here to read this post all the way through. And from a historical stand point you all have not given two ***** about drone regions as a whole since their creation anyway. But, I forsee you making this same mistake again and creating another Incarna situation where you basicly tell the playerbase in our opinion it was better use of our time to create walking in stations than fix these glaring problems that we all know about but don't really think is more important than walking in stations.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#505 - 2012-04-16 16:29:01 UTC
Let me check my math here:
If I read correctly, drone compounds were responsible for ~40% of the mineral production in the game, with Meta 0 drops being responsible for some portion of the remaining 60%.

This implies that mining output needs to approximately double across all regions of space, and there are no planned mining buffs connected with this update.

This should be amusing to watch, in a rather morbid sense of "amusing".

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#506 - 2012-04-16 17:01:39 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Let me check my math here:
If I read correctly, drone compounds were responsible for ~40% of the mineral production in the game, with Meta 0 drops being responsible for some portion of the remaining 60%.

This implies that mining output needs to approximately double across all regions of space, and there are no planned mining buffs connected with this update.

This should be amusing to watch, in a rather morbid sense of "amusing".

Might even result in megalliances recruiting industrial corps, or dropping rental rates for small mining alliances.


Hey, a guy can dream, right? Bear
Dimera Lusen
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#507 - 2012-04-16 17:05:50 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
There are many things which you love to do in New Eden, stalking and shooting down NPCs is one of these activities. Our developers work restless to ensure that you will continue to love doing all these things in the future.

Read this dev blog by CCP Affinity from Team Five 0 and learn everything you always wanted to know about 'carebearing 2.0' (but were afraid to ask)!



I am ok with Drone alloys going away but one of the true questions I have and have seen not answered is what is the drones going to drop. I mean drone faction loot (such as a drone augment bpc, or a worthless drone part) is less then stellar and does not even compare to what a dead space drops can go for. The one thing that made drone space kinda neat was the alloys. I understand that miners have to eek out an existence (i know cause i am one) but from what i understand from test server is that a horde (the best drone complex) is worth around 30 million, and on test server had no loot. That is not inline with a sactum that is roughly 40-45 million (from when i was located in these spaces) + it will have some loot and the ability to get faction loot. This is not balanced even slightly.
betoli
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#508 - 2012-04-16 17:19:46 UTC  |  Edited by: betoli
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Let me check my math here:
If I read correctly, drone compounds were responsible for ~40% of the mineral production in the game, with Meta 0 drops being responsible for some portion of the remaining 60%.

This implies that mining output needs to approximately double across all regions of space, and there are no planned mining buffs connected with this update.

This should be amusing to watch, in a rather morbid sense of "amusing".



Previously mining underperformed every other bloody activity in the game, welcome to more expensive ships. This will be a great metric to see how many people don't mine cause it paid badly vs how many didn't mine because its dull as ****.

I for one welcome the new frigate dominated era....
Davo OHno
The Sagan Clan
#509 - 2012-04-16 17:38:01 UTC
Dimera Lusen wrote:
CCP Phantom wrote:
There are many things which you love to do in New Eden, stalking and shooting down NPCs is one of these activities. Our developers work restless to ensure that you will continue to love doing all these things in the future.

Read this dev blog by CCP Affinity from Team Five 0 and learn everything you always wanted to know about 'carebearing 2.0' (but were afraid to ask)!



I am ok with Drone alloys going away but one of the true questions I have and have seen not answered is what is the drones going to drop. I mean drone faction loot (such as a drone augment bpc, or a worthless drone part) is less then stellar and does not even compare to what a dead space drops can go for. The one thing that made drone space kinda neat was the alloys. I understand that miners have to eek out an existence (i know cause i am one) but from what i understand from test server is that a horde (the best drone complex) is worth around 30 million, and on test server had no loot. That is not inline with a sactum that is roughly 40-45 million (from when i was located in these spaces) + it will have some loot and the ability to get faction loot. This is not balanced even slightly.



YOU SAID IT SISTER!

With the coming changes, you may as well run missions in highsec.
Dimera Lusen
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#510 - 2012-04-16 18:58:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Dimera Lusen
Elrianmk2 wrote:
Well it's not going to take long for the cloaky roams to start out in the drone regions again, after all they will only have industrials sitting in paper thin boats out there as no one is going to rat much except to buy Bpos. Mind you, I guess that's the plan, create the drones as the unwanted part of entry level 0.0, you know where the bankers roam. Mind you no real change from when I flew out there really.



CCP should disable the SOV reporting outside a corp or Alliance that owns the SOV. The level of industy just tells pirates that the system is active. They should have to venture out (or get a spy) to the space inorder to find the active nature of the system. This also goes along with the ability to capture the kill activity of a system both good and bad. How many players and NPCs should not be easily displayed for the masses to see. Mining in Null should be as Covert as the little bugger that sits in the system with his stealth bomber.
Dimera Lusen
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#511 - 2012-04-16 19:04:55 UTC
Sallisah wrote:
Can you please explain, if it wasn't random, why ETHERIUM REACH got absolutely slaughtered on the this adjustment. It is nowhere in line with the other regions changes.

Quote:
The sec status changes aren't a re-randomization, they're a upwards (towards 0) adjustment of each system's sec. The process used to determine the amount each system is adjusted was intended to "smear" the bulk of the sec upwards without compressing the range too much. Systems around -0.5 shifted the most IIRC, and systems at the end moved the least (the -1.0 systems didn't move at all). Also, can't remember if I said already, but Cobalt Edge is untouched because it's a long-ass way from Empire and it didn't have really amazing sec in the first place.


http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/28092/1/devblogpic.png If I could just post the table I would.

So Etherium Reach, which currently has a sec status of -.6 will get nerfed to -.27.

This just doesn't make sense at all. it's not in line with any of the other regions adjustments.

ie. Malpais currently -.59 only goes down to -.41
Oasa currently -.55 only goes down to -.43
Perrigen Falls currently -.64 only goes down to -.45

No other single region even dropped below a -.40 (Kavala Expanse, from -.57). So WOULD you PLEASE explain why Etherium Reach gets such a sharp adjustment compared to the rest of the regions?

Going from some of the other comments about corporate/alliance income from refining, along with the absolute gutting of the true sec for Etherium reach, you just killed an entire region.

PLEASE, please... please give me an answer as to why you signaled out this region for decimation?

I can see this as nothing more than a tragedy. For crying out loud look at the individual sec status of your own table. A region that previously had zero -.01 systems, has bloody 30 of them now.

You have just killed numerous corporations, and alliances in this region. They certainly spent their billions of isk to establish their sov, and for what? So you can arbitrarily destroy it all in one patch?


CCP has made some big errors in the past, including the AUR debacle. Here, again, you have pages and pages of discourse on why this currently is a bad move to adjust the drone regions as planned. Especially without handling the myriad of other concerns that have been brought forward. From corporate income in the region, to the resulting inflation of ships. New players will be grinding for months to get into BS at the current mineral costs from just the speculation. You hisec miners and haulers, are going to be gank targets for a long time to come. They didn't buff your ships, and now you will be carrying fortunes in your tin can.

For the sake of the economy, and your subscription base, I urge you to delay this portion of the release.

(Friends, Brothers, Sisters, and all EVE players who agree... quote that last part and send a wall of protest to CCP!!!)



I feel you sister. CCP did that to us when we were living in HOV our systems went true sec and the sites dried up, and then with a small attack on us we decided to leave the area in persute of better stomping grounds. These changes are going to turn ETHERIUM REACH into a desert over time. Good luck with your moving :(
Sephiroth CloneIIV
Brothers of Tyr
Goonswarm Federation
#512 - 2012-04-16 19:43:38 UTC
AstarothPrime wrote:
I can live without alloys. Just please make drones on par with other rats then.

As it is now - sentient drone is something you look at and think - gee why didnt it spawn regular one instead... if it doesnt salvage cap consoles is basically worthless... Almost as worthless as elite drone parasite (that guy is really waste of time lol)

And let us have prefixed sites. Forsaken and forlorn squad is something to bargain with.

I.


I wonder what officer drones drop, even more worthless junk?

Yea they need to drop mods, or ships equivalent to other races. Maybe drones but they need to be significantly good, and not suck.

Or better yet, because no drones ships exist (player useable), and the rats do all damage types, have them drop random mods from all races (because you can't just do bounties otherwise the other factions drop high meta mods that amplify loot value), and the faction spawns random faction loot.

It would keep them different from all other factions, a even more random flavor.
Sephiroth CloneIIV
Brothers of Tyr
Goonswarm Federation
#513 - 2012-04-16 19:53:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Sephiroth Clone VII
AstarothPrime wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


You do realise that 0.0 belts are full to bursting with low and mid-level ores, right? Seriously, go and have a look - the veldspar rocks are almost moon-sized.



He is pointing out that he would like veldspar to appear in hidden belts... noone mines regular ones due to lack of security...

There is no veld in hidden belts, therefore noone mines it in null ;) Plus itll get trickyer to transport veld now. Plush held 3200 in 1m3, meaning 1:32 compression ratio, now itll be very very interesting seeing how will you supply it to deep null...

General problem isnt anything except veld and pye (maybe mexallon sometimes but uber rarely). You just need billions of m3 of it to build anything decent (such as supercarrier / titan or such)...

I.


Why would you mine it (veldispar), you would be basically making as much as afk bots in empire for mining veldespar.

you could have passively running a zillion accounts for little danger, or have to intensively manage much less (or just one), always looking at local and Intel channels.

Mining in null is not a passive activity.

Mineral compression is possible with roqual, and manufacturing certain items. Reminds me I need to check again what item is best for trite.

That... or as I do just bring the ship hulls, BCs have really high mineral compression (and BS's sort of) and then you got what you want without even needing to manufacture it or bring trite. Which also goes with the limited slots of manufacturing stuff in null.
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#514 - 2012-04-16 20:00:03 UTC
i enjoy the people going "you just made mining so much more profitable so now you have to buff hulks more!!!!!" without a hint of irony
DarkTemplarCrimsonWolf
The Smokehouse
#515 - 2012-04-16 20:22:29 UTC  |  Edited by: DarkTemplarCrimsonWolf
Drone poo going bye= good
Meta 0 going bye= good
Drone regions true sec toned down= good

The only thing I find rather disturbing is the lack of drone loot at all, either up the bounties permanently or as a stopgap measure until drone loot gets put in.

Idea for drone loot
Rogue drone enhanced mining gear tailor made for mining barges and exhumers (specialized shield boosters, enhance strips, etc etc ) which would be explained lore wise by the drone's evolutionary pace surpassing ORE's tech but otherwise the military applications of said devices would be negligible ( them being comparable to contemporary military tech but somewhat superior still to the defensive systems in ORE's ships ). The blueprints for these items could be reversed engineered from loot from drone sites/plexes, the ORE angle could be a new set of skills specifically geared for these items so you get the raw material from the drones and the know how from ORE, combine it and enhance mining barges and exhumars with modules (possibly even rigs?) which can only be fitted on these ships. This idea could solve both the gank issue with miners to a certain degree (making it more expensive to gank miners in high sec and being more survivable in 0.0, that is last a few minutes longer while under attack) and the need for the drone regions to have a specific flavor. Oh and as a further addendum the modules from the drones should come in tiers (IE faction, C type, B type, A type and X type ) and varying sizes just like regular faction/deadspace loot (small -> purveyor-skiff; medium->retriever-mackinaw; large->covetor-hulk; x-large->rorqual) and of course for the better gear you would need raw materials from low sec / 0.0 to create the blueprint, the modules and rigs obtained this way are made with regular materials (perhaps in the case of the modules they are produced in a way similar to tech 2s? )

Sorry for the wall o text, I write when inspired so I do not forget ^^.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#516 - 2012-04-16 20:37:31 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
i enjoy the people going "you just made mining so much more profitable so now you have to buff hulks more!!!!!" without a hint of irony

Those who do not understand math are doomed to be victimized by it.

I hope you've stocked up on your favorite PvP ships because this is going to be a fun ride.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#517 - 2012-04-16 20:48:22 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:

Those who do not understand math are doomed to be victimized by it.

I hope you've stocked up on your favorite PvP ships because this is going to be a fun ride.

i have literally 5500 thrashers and thousands more in production

oh and 46billion worth of the mins in for the biggest spike

i'm p.good at math and its going to be a hell of a fun ride
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#518 - 2012-04-16 20:48:55 UTC
to be fair the thrashers are also for my 8000 closest friends who also want to gank you
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#519 - 2012-04-16 20:50:57 UTC
the 46b in minerals is all me baby
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#520 - 2012-04-16 20:58:37 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
the 46b in minerals is all me baby

Fortune favors the prepared.

I'm sure your name will be the toast of Jita by the end of the month.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs