These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

New Dev Blog: Carebearing 2.0

First post First post
Author
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#461 - 2012-04-13 12:39:15 UTC
Daioh Azu wrote:
Many nullsec residents don't see industry as an important alliance asset and actively discourage it. Usually the only industry that gets any respect is capital production. Often to the point that alliance leadership will reserve outpost manufacturing slots solely for capital component production. This pushes all other manufacturing to high overhead starbase assembly arrays which can't compete with virtually free hisec manufacturing slots. Then they'll have the nerve to complain that your prices are 20% higher than Jita. "Oh and by the way, the next time you make a run to Jita, could you jump something in for me...for next to nothing...please?" Sound familiar anyone?

I swear, if I wasn't my main, I'd think this guy was me. Wish I had some of my old posts from the IRON boards, as I pointed out this *EXACT SAME PROBLEM* during the Malpais/Deklein two front war, and was pretty much laughed at to no end. We all see how that worked out.

Malcanis wrote:
Daioh Azu wrote:

Any increase in mining yield will be utilized where it have always been utilized, to mine the most valuable ore available.


0.0 belts don't have infinite amounts of every ore. Once all the ABCM is gone, it's gone until the belt respawns (2x a week?). If the values of other ores are worth undocking the Hulks for, they'll get mined.

No, they won't. Folks (in the old days, at least) would just switch to mining with their guns, and melt down anything that wasn't meta 4. With these changes coming in, that could change, but only time will tell (says the guy who trained up Scrapmetal Processing V for precisely this purpose... getting a 2% cut of everybody's melt was almost as delicious as the tears currently flowing)
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#462 - 2012-04-13 12:49:01 UTC
gfldex wrote:
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
One "Plan B" for them would be to "fix" some of the null-sec ores which are still pretty bad, like Spod and Gneiss.


If you boost Gneiss you boost -0.001 systems. The whole idea of 0.0 is that it's Deep Space. And that means it's far off the road. I would prefer to have ABCD to have more low and med mins over making any 0.0 way better then lowsec. Proper compression seams to be the best way IMHO. There should be something coming from highsec to 0.0 that is not ISK or POS fuel.


Low-sec and null-sec are roughly tied for "risk", especially for miners in low-sec where you can't wall off the system with bubbles. It also doesn't change the fact that Gneiss is undervalued due to the size of the ore units, when compared to the other low/null ores. It lags hard and either you add more units (which messes up everyone's refine tables) or you simply lower the size of the ore (which increases yield/hr without screwing up refine tables).

Even dropping Gneiss from 5.00 m3/u down to 3.50 m3/u would be a significant improvement, while not quite as overpowered as moving it from 5.00 to 3.00 m3/u. At 3.50 m3/u, Gneiss would end up worth around 259 ISK/m3, which is still below the low/null ores, but not as bad as it is now.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#463 - 2012-04-13 12:50:34 UTC
Malcanis wrote:

0.0 belts don't have infinite amounts of every ore. Once all the ABCM is gone, it's gone until the belt respawns (2x a week?). If the values of other ores are worth undocking the Hulks for, they'll get mined.


All belts now refill daily at downtime (changed a few years ago). The rocks will start as small pebbles if they were mined completely out and will grow into larger asteroids on the following days (if left alone).
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#464 - 2012-04-13 13:26:32 UTC
nestafarios wrote:
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
The Gard'ner wrote:
So small time hi sec industrials who need some rare minerals from the compounds will be left hanging to dry cus the few drone missions we get are going to be gone ? How is this helping industry ? All the power will still be in big alliances'hands again. Especially with the new system of modules making. thanks alot CCP you made my game alot less fun


go buy them in jita you nitwit


someone still has to put em in Jita for sale, oh wait, that would still be the big alliances who have unlimited access to the resources, so the prices are still going up.

so yeah big alliances still have the game in control

"The overall goal of all these changes is to make the drone regions more economically balanced, and to reduce the downward pressure on mineral prices from the drone regions so mining becomes more profitable." (CCP affinity)

I have yet to see where the pressure on mins is downward, they have been steadily going up.

I said essentially this in an earlier post that seems to have vaporized. (I didn't cuss or anything...)

There is no current shortage of very large buy orders. I have no trouble selling 800M in minerals each week. Removing the drone droppings will only reduce supply forcing prices of most everything even higher than today.

And correct me, but the gankers/roam squads are licking their chops at the possibility of dopey miners trying to cash in on 0.0 mining. With gankers doing their thing, miners will learn the hard way that mining in 0.0 ain't worth it and they'll go back to hi sec. For sure, there will be some miners who adapt, as there are now some who have adapted, but they are vastly outnumbered by hi sec miner-bears.

So who really benefits from these changes? The Nullbears who can mine in peace and the corps that have Sov. I can't see how this is good for the game in general. I feel like we are playing Monopoly.

The ONE positive aspect of nerfing drones/drone regions is that it may stop botting in those areas as it will no longer be profitable. But let's not kid ourselves, this is a nerf, pure and simple, that reduces the value of drones and makes it harder for small fry to independently acquire high end minerals.
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#465 - 2012-04-13 13:58:23 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:
So who really benefits from these changes? The Nullbears who can mine in peace and the corps that have Sov. I can't see how this is good for the game in general.

What makes it "good for the game in general" is that it pushes people out of high sec towards null sec. It makes megalliances take base industry seriously. It creates a driver of conflict as starving a larger and more powerful enemy by inserting black ops forces into their mining pockets becomes a viable tactic (even assuming something is finally done about AFK cloaks).
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#466 - 2012-04-13 14:07:45 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

0.0 belts don't have infinite amounts of every ore. Once all the ABCM is gone, it's gone until the belt respawns (2x a week?). If the values of other ores are worth undocking the Hulks for, they'll get mined.


All belts now refill daily at downtime (changed a few years ago). The rocks will start as small pebbles if they were mined completely out and will grow into larger asteroids on the following days (if left alone).



Shows how long it's been since I mined! (2008?)

The point remains though.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#467 - 2012-04-13 14:36:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tallian Saotome
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

0.0 belts don't have infinite amounts of every ore. Once all the ABCM is gone, it's gone until the belt respawns (2x a week?). If the values of other ores are worth undocking the Hulks for, they'll get mined.


All belts now refill daily at downtime (changed a few years ago). The rocks will start as small pebbles if they were mined completely out and will grow into larger asteroids on the following days (if left alone).

Not in hidden belts, thats just in static belts.

Supporting nullsec miners in ops the span downtimes teaches you alot about how that works, and if that was true we wouldn't be able to clear the belt 30 minutes after DT.

Edit: additionally, hidden belts respawn when you totally mine them out, including any lowend in them, so if a miners wants more high ends, he will mine out the lowends to get a fresh hidden belt.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.

Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#468 - 2012-04-13 14:41:00 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:
nestafarios wrote:
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
The Gard'ner wrote:
So small time hi sec industrials who need some rare minerals from the compounds will be left hanging to dry cus the few drone missions we get are going to be gone ? How is this helping industry ? All the power will still be in big alliances'hands again. Especially with the new system of modules making. thanks alot CCP you made my game alot less fun


go buy them in jita you nitwit


someone still has to put em in Jita for sale, oh wait, that would still be the big alliances who have unlimited access to the resources, so the prices are still going up.

so yeah big alliances still have the game in control

"The overall goal of all these changes is to make the drone regions more economically balanced, and to reduce the downward pressure on mineral prices from the drone regions so mining becomes more profitable." (CCP affinity)

I have yet to see where the pressure on mins is downward, they have been steadily going up.

I said essentially this in an earlier post that seems to have vaporized. (I didn't cuss or anything...)

There is no current shortage of very large buy orders. I have no trouble selling 800M in minerals each week. Removing the drone droppings will only reduce supply forcing prices of most everything even higher than today.

And correct me, but the gankers/roam squads are licking their chops at the possibility of dopey miners trying to cash in on 0.0 mining. With gankers doing their thing, miners will learn the hard way that mining in 0.0 ain't worth it and they'll go back to hi sec. For sure, there will be some miners who adapt, as there are now some who have adapted, but they are vastly outnumbered by hi sec miner-bears.

So who really benefits from these changes? The Nullbears who can mine in peace and the corps that have Sov. I can't see how this is good for the game in general. I feel like we are playing Monopoly.

The ONE positive aspect of nerfing drones/drone regions is that it may stop botting in those areas as it will no longer be profitable. But let's not kid ourselves, this is a nerf, pure and simple, that reduces the value of drones and makes it harder for small fry to independently acquire high end minerals.


Lowsec is not going to be helped by this because miners can't effectively be protected in lowsec. It WILL boost nullsec mining, tho, because high end ores will be worth more, and there will be more incentive for alliances to actually protect their miners, instead of the current attitude that they should make isk ratting in a ship with guns and mobility to try and survive hostiles.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.

Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#469 - 2012-04-13 15:29:41 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:

Lowsec is not going to be helped by this because miners can't effectively be protected in lowsec. It WILL boost nullsec mining, tho, because high end ores will be worth more, and there will be more incentive for alliances to actually protect their miners, instead of the current attitude that they should make isk ratting in a ship with guns and mobility to try and survive hostiles.

I think we agree: Dopey Hi Sec miners will get ganked and thus weeded out. Nullbears will be proctected thus their mining will increase based upon need. Powerblocks win. Indepedents lose. We are playing Monopoly.

If that's not what you are thinking, correct me please.
BensBig
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#470 - 2012-04-13 16:48:06 UTC
Just so we are clear. YOU DIDNT REBALANCE ANYTHING!!!!!

You did as little as you possibly could to repair the damages you did to the game in Dominion and not one little bit more. You said before it wasnt just gonna be a switch to bounties and then did exactly that. Hire that team from WoD that came in and made some nice changes in two weeks because god only knows when you will have time to fix drone regions. They have only been broken since the day they were put into the game so maybe Im just being impatient.

I got an idea, how about we nerf entire ship classes based on what a big blob of them will do and lets see what we can do to depopulate 5 regions. We will call this operation "Etherium Reach-around" !!!!!! Next time can you buy me dinner first? Thanks
Kyara Heranah
NightSong Holdings
NightSong Directorate
#471 - 2012-04-13 19:12:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyara Heranah
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Sallisah wrote:
Can you please explain, if it wasn't random, why ETHERIUM REACH got absolutely slaughtered on the this adjustment. It is nowhere in line with the other regions changes.


Etherium Reach got hit particularly hard because it was one of the best truesec regions in the game (-0.60 vs -0.64 for The Spire and Perrigen Falls, and just behind Deklein at -0.61, with the next-nearest non-drone region being Branch at -0.51), despite having a direct connection to Empire. It doesn't have a hisec connection, so it's more of a Tribute than a Pure Blind, but that's balanced to some degree by having a connection to both Molden Heath and The Forge. It got the biggest adjustment because its sec values were the most out of line from what you'd expect anywhere else in EVE.



CCP Goonscale (as I believe I shall now dub thee)

You just outlined exactly how you will be giving the Goons a larger competitive advantage. Im completely sure now that you put these changes forward to the CSM and every single one of the goonies applauded your efforts for them. Seriously, your going to kill one of the only regions that was anything close to Deklein but doesn't have the tech moons? If anything Deklein should get the sec nerf due to its massive isk income in moon goo. If you are dead set on removing everything good out of the Drone Regions, then you need to rebalance Deklein and remove the massive number of moons producing highly valuable moon goo.

Oh how great are the scales that work in the favor of all things Goon. Balance is not achieved here, balance is thrown out the window in favor of ... what exactly? The loss of Drone Alloy was a celebrated change. Finally CCP was getting it together and seeing the light of balance. The loss of Alloy was a balance in itself, one that was easy and agreed upon by most everyone, including those who would be losing out because of it. We could all deal with low loot drops for drones too, even the possibility of not gaining security through them. But to then cause all those nice drones to disappear as well? This is unacceptable

CCP, don't go back on your new and great policy of listening to the players. It is clear what we are saying: We agree with the Drone bounty change and support it whole-heartedly but, this is not an opening to ruin an entire region of space to give the advantage to your most favored Superpower. The true sec changes in testing have been found wanting. This is not the time to make those changes

But, since all the dev's have stated that they do best when suggestions are given out here we go

  • Keep the Etherium Reach true sec changes
  • Retain the current sec of Cobalt Edg
  • Bolster the Sec of regions between Cobalt at Highsec that have no low/high connection
  • Keep the low/nonexistant level of drops for drone
  • Make Drones harder if you have to
  • Increase the bounties on higher drone


Why do all this? Because having an entire region where all you get is bounties is actually pretty balanced. There is nothing to salvage, nothing to sell off, its like Incursions for the solo people. Worried about risk/reward: Make drones harder. But, make em worth more. And I haven't even touched the whole miner issue, not going to either, thats for an indy person to deal with. This is for the many players that play just like that: let the indy guy do his indy, ill shoot these rats for a few hours so that I can buy stuff from him

CCP Goonscale, the only question I have for you directly is pretty straightforward: Why is the only region that has everything in it the one that isnt getting nerfed? Such a region provides too much of an advantage. The way it has been outlined to us the players is that there should be reason for us to fight over regions, not to fight over only one region in the game. I would fight for good bounty only drones, I would fight for the best deadspace loot, I would fight for the best mining region, and I would fight for a region which was horrible except for its tech moons. But. that last region shouldn't have good loot, good mining, great truesec, AND tech moons. If it should have all that, then the balanced thing to do is to give every section of nullsec one (or more, as the goons have it) of these perfect regions.

It's fairly easy, hold off on the truesec changes until after the drone changes have a chance to be analyzed and you can find a better change for truesec.
Kyara Heranah
NightSong Holdings
NightSong Directorate
#472 - 2012-04-13 19:49:10 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Has CCP ever considered the idea of "ingots"? Create a Trit, Pyer, Mex, Iso Ingot BPOs (Low ends) that has no waste at all. Allow it to compress minerals into "industrial ingots", then Null can export these from high-sec and reprocess them out in Null using Scrap Metal skill. The compression need not be any better than the current methods used. The resulting ingots can be quite large since freighters and JFs are the usual transportation. 10 million trit compressed into blocks the size of what ever keeps parity with current methods, 425s ring a bell.


Yup. It's not being actively pursued right now, but it's one way we've looked at of of addressing compression head-on.

Kyara Heranah wrote:


SERIOUSLY CCP: Why in the world do you need to now change the security status to crap? These regions arent supposed to be LOWSEC, this is not where you bring your bastard child, Faction Warfare, to feed on the carcasses of dead capsuleers!


Here are some stats.

Currently on TQ, the average sec status for all non-drone nullsec regions is -0.33. The average sec status for the drone regions is -0.58. Post change, the average sec status for the drone regions will be -0.44.

Of the twenty-six non-drone regions, the current counts for -1.0 systems are: 4,4,4,3,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.The current counts for the drone regions are: 6,5,5,4,4,4,2,2,1. After the change they become 5,4,4,4,3,3,2,0

For systems with a sec of -0.8 and below, non-drone regions: 24,17,15,11,10,9,9,9,8,8,6,6,5,4,4,3,3,3,3,2,1,1,0,0,0,0
Current drone regions: 30,25,25,24,23,20,18,17
Drone regions after the change: 18,17,14,12,12,10,10,5



Thank you for the empirical data, CCP Goonscale. I can see the need to change the sec status of the systems that are closer to -1.0 and will concede those. For the systems that are -0.8 and lower however, the data clearly shows the changes are unbalanced. Halving the count of middle sec systems is a bit far for rats that have no loot and don't give security. One cannot compare Drone Region truesec without looking at what the rats will be like. In this case, the rats are disadvantaged vs non drone regions, making a higher average truesec plausible as far as balance is concerned.
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#473 - 2012-04-13 19:52:46 UTC
Kyara Heranah wrote:

CCP Goonscale (as I believe I shall now dub thee)
...
Oh how great are the scales that work in the favor of all things Goon. Balance is not achieved here, balance is thrown out the window in favor of ... what exactly? The loss of Drone Alloy was a celebrated change. Finally CCP was getting it together and seeing the light of balance. The loss of Alloy was a balance in itself, one that was easy and agreed upon by most everyone, including those who would be losing out because of it. We could all deal with low loot drops for drones too, even the possibility of not gaining security through them. But to then cause all those nice drones to disappear as well? This is unacceptable
...
CCP Goonscale, the only question I have for you directly is pretty straightforward: Why is the only region that has everything in it the one that isnt getting nerfed? Such a region provides too much of an advantage. The way it has been outlined to us the players is that there should be reason for us to fight over regions, not to fight over only one region in the game. I would fight for good bounty only drones, I would fight for the best deadspace loot, I would fight for the best mining region, and I would fight for a region which was horrible except for its tech moons. But. that last region shouldn't have good loot, good mining, great truesec, AND tech moons. If it should have all that, then the balanced thing to do is to give every section of nullsec one (or more, as the goons have it) of these perfect regions.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here, since your 'born on' date is early 2011, but before Goons ruled the world (as you seem to believe), it was BoB. Everything CCP did was to coddle BoB, and when BoB called Reykjavik, CCP dropped everything they were doing to service their lord and god, the leader of BoB and wearer of pink fuzzy hats, Sir Molle. Granted, the whole t20/kugu thing didn't help (and in fact, kugs is still "topic verboten"), but that was the perception.

Fast forward to today, and it's the Goons. CCP does this, it's to appease the Goons. CCP backtracks that, oh it must be because Mittani didn't like it. The simple truth is that being the biggest kid on the block puts a giant target on your back, as well as creating a perpetual cloud of suspicion. I personally would like there to be some changes to the CSM to better represent the entire playerbase rather than just the null-sec alliances, but that's a topic best moved to a separate discussion.
Kyara Heranah
NightSong Holdings
NightSong Directorate
#474 - 2012-04-13 20:21:23 UTC
Atum wrote:
Kyara Heranah wrote:

CCP Goonscale (as I believe I shall now dub thee)
...
Oh how great are the scales that work in the favor of all things Goon. Balance is not achieved here, balance is thrown out the window in favor of ... what exactly? The loss of Drone Alloy was a celebrated change. Finally CCP was getting it together and seeing the light of balance. The loss of Alloy was a balance in itself, one that was easy and agreed upon by most everyone, including those who would be losing out because of it. We could all deal with low loot drops for drones too, even the possibility of not gaining security through them. But to then cause all those nice drones to disappear as well? This is unacceptable
...
CCP Goonscale, the only question I have for you directly is pretty straightforward: Why is the only region that has everything in it the one that isnt getting nerfed? Such a region provides too much of an advantage. The way it has been outlined to us the players is that there should be reason for us to fight over regions, not to fight over only one region in the game. I would fight for good bounty only drones, I would fight for the best deadspace loot, I would fight for the best mining region, and I would fight for a region which was horrible except for its tech moons. But. that last region shouldn't have good loot, good mining, great truesec, AND tech moons. If it should have all that, then the balanced thing to do is to give every section of nullsec one (or more, as the goons have it) of these perfect regions.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here, since your 'born on' date is early 2011, but before Goons ruled the world (as you seem to believe), it was BoB. Everything CCP did was to coddle BoB, and when BoB called Reykjavik, CCP dropped everything they were doing to service their lord and god, the leader of BoB and wearer of pink fuzzy hats, Sir Molle. Granted, the whole t20/kugu thing didn't help (and in fact, kugs is still "topic verboten"), but that was the perception.

Fast forward to today, and it's the Goons. CCP does this, it's to appease the Goons. CCP backtracks that, oh it must be because Mittani didn't like it. The simple truth is that being the biggest kid on the block puts a giant target on your back, as well as creating a perpetual cloud of suspicion. I personally would like there to be some changes to the CSM to better represent the entire playerbase rather than just the null-sec alliances, but that's a topic best moved to a separate discussion.


Failing to see how you make a different point. If they only cater to the biggest kid on the block, then they can never claim to make a balanced game and need to give up that ruse altogether. If CCP wants to keep calling it balancing and continue with the current trend of actively listening to the players through the forums (which they have been doing a great job of btw. ::applause::) then they cant play favorites. Either way, you simply made a valid point which supplements my argument.
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#475 - 2012-04-13 20:35:37 UTC
Kyara Heranah wrote:
Failing to see how you make a different point. If they only cater to the biggest kid on the block, then they can never claim to make a balanced game and need to give up that ruse altogether. If CCP wants to keep calling it balancing and continue with the current trend of actively listening to the players through the forums (which they have been doing a great job of btw. ::applause::) then they cant play favorites. Either way, you simply made a valid point which supplements my argument.

The point I'm trying to make is that it doesn't matter who the king of the hill is, anything CCP does is likely to be perceived as coddling them. Malcanis says it best: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Being among the oldest and richest, Goons will benefit accordingly.
Draconus Lofwyr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#476 - 2012-04-13 21:03:38 UTC
if you want to do something for the carebears, perhaps do something about the abysmal drop rate on the Mining Foreman Mindlink, They are starting to break the 1 bil mark on the market.


Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#477 - 2012-04-13 21:42:50 UTC
Nendail Smith wrote:
Alx Warlord wrote:
Lyrrashae wrote:
Alx Warlord wrote:


[...]

Now we just need a cloak hunter ship to prevent people from ruining the industrial level of the systems by staying there cloaked until it reaches 0...

[...]

THX CCP! You are doing a wonderful work!


Oh for ****'s sakes...This over-entitled whinging crap again...Roll

No, you don't.

Team up and make the effort to secure your space to the point that the big, bad, scawwy cloakie knows he practically can't decloak without getting insta-popped. And if you refuse to do that, then you deserve to lose the benefits of your space.


Does a good hotdop worth losing a tec2 frigate? yes.

Does a mining barge fleet risk going to a belt in a system is filed with neutrals in local? no.

People olny mine when it is profitable, risking to lose a Hulk is not, so or ccp makes it and gives a way to fight cloaked ships and remove them from system, or the economy will have a hard time ahead.

The problem of afk cloakers are that you can't do nothing to remove them once they are there. and yes, it kills the system economy, no matter how fortified is the system defenses! once the afk cloaker spots a miinning barge fleet, it just needs to open um a cyno and spike the local and maybe kill 1 ship to ruin the operation for the day and the economy of the system..


Change systems and stop crying about cloak.


This is unfair to small alliances.
Heathkit
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#478 - 2012-04-13 22:15:09 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
Nendail Smith wrote:
Alx Warlord wrote:
Lyrrashae wrote:
Alx Warlord wrote:


[...]

Now we just need a cloak hunter ship to prevent people from ruining the industrial level of the systems by staying there cloaked until it reaches 0...

[...]

THX CCP! You are doing a wonderful work!


Oh for ****'s sakes...This over-entitled whinging crap again...Roll

No, you don't.

Team up and make the effort to secure your space to the point that the big, bad, scawwy cloakie knows he practically can't decloak without getting insta-popped. And if you refuse to do that, then you deserve to lose the benefits of your space.


Does a good hotdop worth losing a tec2 frigate? yes.

Does a mining barge fleet risk going to a belt in a system is filed with neutrals in local? no.

People olny mine when it is profitable, risking to lose a Hulk is not, so or ccp makes it and gives a way to fight cloaked ships and remove them from system, or the economy will have a hard time ahead.

The problem of afk cloakers are that you can't do nothing to remove them once they are there. and yes, it kills the system economy, no matter how fortified is the system defenses! once the afk cloaker spots a miinning barge fleet, it just needs to open um a cyno and spike the local and maybe kill 1 ship to ruin the operation for the day and the economy of the system..


Change systems and stop crying about cloak.


This is unfair to small alliances.


How small of an alliance? If there's an afk cloaker in system, use covetors so you're not risking a 200M ship and have someone tank the rats in a PvP ship. Or heck, even try to bait him out with a hauler and counterdrop him.
AstarothPrime
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#479 - 2012-04-13 23:15:22 UTC
Oh btw - there is just one more question bout anoms in drone regions.

Now then - all pirate factions have "forsaken" and "forlorn" versions of their respective "lesser" anomalies, whereas "forlorn hub" regularly yielded almost as much as a sanctum... That effectively ment -> -0.1 system had "sanctum sized" anomaly present at all times...

Drones have no such "prefixed" sites. Does that mean vast majority of drone systems will get kicked in the balls 3 ways:

1) No prefixed anoms + lower truesec (meaning no rat with 700k+ bounty on it in 80% of systems)
2) No alloys, no loot, no faction loot - nothing to look forward to?
3) Dull and boring area with 3 cloaky afkers in all 5 good good systems left (since you said -> it IS 20 jumps from jita, why not afk cloak your 2 week alt THERE)

Wow gee - you really DID fix the drone regions.

I.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#480 - 2012-04-14 00:48:30 UTC
AstarothPrime wrote:


Wow gee - you really DID fix the drone regions.


All it took was a quick trip to the vet, too.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs