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New Dev Blog: Carebearing 2.0

First post First post
Author
Draconus Lofwyr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#521 - 2012-04-16 21:11:54 UTC
they really want to make this a carebear based patch, remove ALL loot drops and replace them with limited run bpc's for all named products, no more gun mining period and ALL modules will have to be produced from minerals. this would also make ratting easier as cargo space would not be that much of an issue. Even meta 0 bpc's could drop, and for faction spawns and officer spawns, the drops would be faction bpc's and researched bpc's for non faction loot.


This will encourage a lot more industrialists to go out and have to mine. no more supplying the budget PvP fleets with loot drops.
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#522 - 2012-04-16 21:19:50 UTC
Draconus Lofwyr wrote:
they really want to make this a carebear based patch, remove ALL loot drops and replace them with limited run bpc's for all named products, no more gun mining period and ALL modules will have to be produced from minerals. this would also make ratting easier as cargo space would not be that much of an issue. Even meta 0 bpc's could drop, and for faction spawns and officer spawns, the drops would be faction bpc's and researched bpc's for non faction loot.


This will encourage a lot more industrialists to go out and have to mine. no more supplying the budget PvP fleets with loot drops.

This is a surprisingly not terrible idea though it would end cheap meta 1-3 items as nobody would build them.
Draconus Lofwyr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#523 - 2012-04-16 21:23:33 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Draconus Lofwyr wrote:
they really want to make this a carebear based patch, remove ALL loot drops and replace them with limited run bpc's for all named products, no more gun mining period and ALL modules will have to be produced from minerals. this would also make ratting easier as cargo space would not be that much of an issue. Even meta 0 bpc's could drop, and for faction spawns and officer spawns, the drops would be faction bpc's and researched bpc's for non faction loot.


This will encourage a lot more industrialists to go out and have to mine. no more supplying the budget PvP fleets with loot drops.

This is a surprisingly not terrible idea though it would end cheap meta 1-3 items as nobody would build them.



just increase the me/pe on the meta to match the meta level to lower the "cost" of building that should bring back the meta 1-3 items as the meta 4+ items will just be that much rarer.
Ajunta Thor
Tri-gun
An Alliance Has No Name
#524 - 2012-04-18 10:00:43 UTC
Very good changes except for inc. The nerf to vg's was needed but whatever has been done to AS is bad. From Testing on the Test Server the Effort to reward ratio on assaults is much more worse then VG's have ever been. Literally the spawns in AS's atm have become laughable. Personally i believe the AS sites should be left as they are on TQ as of the time of this post. Except for the site initialed NCN. The spawns in those could be decreased slightly to bring NCN's into range of effort that the rest of the AS sites are at. This Should allow for a re-balancing of which inc sites are done on day to day bases. Instead of having everyone running VG's and next to no one running AS or everyone running AS and no one running VG you should be able to get a steady number of players doing both. And of course you will have the same group or maybe even a slightly larger group of dedicated HQ runners everyday doing the same old stuff all day everyday and finishing the inc off when needed. This is just my opinion and or advice on the matter. Seems like you guys and gals want to make it so that each type of inc site is ran equally rather then 1 type spammed the heck out of. And the above seems like the best way to do that while avoiding the pendulum effect from 1 type of site to another until everything comes together.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#525 - 2012-04-18 11:24:36 UTC
Draconus Lofwyr wrote:

just increase the me/pe on the meta to match the meta level to lower the "cost" of building that should bring back the meta 1-3 items as the meta 4+ items will just be that much rarer.


There's a few ways you could go:

- Meta 1-3 BPCs with random ME/PE levels (ME could range between 0 and 5x meta level, PE could range between 0 and 2x meta level). This would probably require that the contract UI be changed slightly to display ME/PE level of BPOs/BPCs without having to look at contract details.

- Higher meta levels require more minerals then the base T1 item, plus supplementary materials from other resource pools instead of just being built with minerals.

- Fixed ME/PE level BPCs (no variation, all drops the same), which require the meta-zero item plus supplementary materials.

- Higher meta level BPCs which have negative ME/PE levels (starting at -1/-1 for meta-1 going up to -4/-4 for meta 4).

- If different ME/PE levels are in play, then store-sold BPCs should always be equal or worse then the BPCs that drop as loot. Otherwise nobody would buy the looted BPCs. In the case of negative ME, then the store sold BPCs should always have one more negative ME then the worst of the drops. In the case of positive ME, you'd want to simply make the store sold BPCs as ME zero.
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#526 - 2012-04-18 21:41:54 UTC
So, Soundwave or Affinity, you might have missed my previous post, but are *all* dropped drone alloys being removed?

I know you've said you're removing them as dropped loot but are leaving them in-game if people have them in hangers, but what about the drone alloys that spawn inside containers in Mission/Exploration sites?

Be nice to know if they're still going to be actually obtainable in game, even if in limited quantites, or if I should hoard them now as future collectors items.
Samual Smith
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#527 - 2012-04-19 09:10:52 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
DaDutchDude wrote:
Interesting changes which are already shaping EVE mineral markets today.

So a couple of questions:
1) Will Rogue Drones start dropping normal loot?
2) Will Rogue Drones salvage be increased? It seems today their salvage is quite below par.
3) Will you look into Rogue Drone exploration sites and escalations? Currently, their value is very low (who really wants 'augmented' or 'Integrated' drones?) and could use some new modules / blue prints / etc to be as interesting as the pirate faction drops.
4) How long will it take for the insurance values to adjust to the change in mineral prices? Already, the mineral prices have shot up significantly, and I assume the market will take months after this (if not longer) to adjust to the new realities. It seems a bit unfair if the insurance value for T1 ships lags so far behind players don't get compensated for these drastic changes.
5) Your blog doesn't mention this, but there's also talk about eliminating all T1 module drops from all NPCs. Can you confirm? And does that mean less loot, or will the entire loot drop table be revised to replace T1 drops with meta modules, and thereby reducing the chance for meta 4 modules?



1. No - Commander groups have loot tables, regular deadspace rogue drones don't
2. at the moment we have no plans to do this - but who knows!
3. We will definitely look into this :) not confirming we will do anything about it right away but it's definitely on our list of things to investigate
4. Pretty impossible for me to answer that and I am definitely not the person to be doing so - would need to be someone from research and statistics
5. confirmed - they will be replaced with metal scraps

Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#528 - 2012-04-20 07:56:52 UTC
So my question in this:

Does the removal of Drone Dropped Alloys mean that those who have been hoarding the alloys and not refining it into minerals need to refine them into minerals before this patchQuestion

Will the Drone Alloy still be present in our Hangers after this patch?

Are CCP altering the refining values of the Drone Dropped Alloy?

Basically, will I be at a loss\disadvantaged by keeping the Drone Dropped Alloy and not refining it due to this change?

I would be very interested to have an answer as I don't refine unless I'm building something (and the prices on the market are so low, or were until recently, that I've not needed to for years!)

Many thanks,

Maximus.
Capsuleer Newton
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#529 - 2012-04-21 20:37:17 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Blakslabeth wrote:
So the summary is:

#1 More expensive ships
#2 Less ability to make isk in incursions
#3 If you live in the drone region your true sec now sucks.

Hard to get excited about 3 nerfs in one blog.



but.. think of the miners dude! They need love too <3


Lol Miners Block lobbying for this? or everyone just hates whoever's staying in the Drones Region, or everyone just wants to see more hulks being popped...LolLolLol
Heathkit
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
#530 - 2012-04-21 20:49:58 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
So my question in this:

Does the removal of Drone Dropped Alloys mean that those who have been hoarding the alloys and not refining it into minerals need to refine them into minerals before this patchQuestion

Will the Drone Alloy still be present in our Hangers after this patch?

Are CCP altering the refining values of the Drone Dropped Alloy?

Basically, will I be at a loss\disadvantaged by keeping the Drone Dropped Alloy and not refining it due to this change?

I would be very interested to have an answer as I don't refine unless I'm building something (and the prices on the market are so low, or were until recently, that I've not needed to for years!)

Many thanks,

Maximus.

All drone alloys are going to be deleted from the game after the patch. You should sell them all off ASAP.
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
#531 - 2012-04-22 01:40:20 UTC
Capsuleer Newton wrote:
Lol Miners Block lobbying for this? or everyone just hates whoever's staying in the Drones Region, or everyone just wants to see more hulks being popped...LolLolLol

All of the above?
Don Kartel
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#532 - 2012-04-22 01:41:35 UTC
Its good to see rouge drone alloys removed and Meta 0 drops removed however look at the state of the market now and thats before the patch. What are you going to do to balance that out ?

Demand out strips supply massively and people hate mining for hours on end. mining is the worst thing in the game and pvp'ers are going to suffer becuase ship prices have just doubled in some cases

Something needs to be done to boost mineral supply ingame now to balance this mess out a little Nocxium is 1000 isk p/u when traditionally its was 256 isk. Can you see where you messed up ? Keep in mind this is pre-patch, so whats going to happen post patch.

You spend all that time adding content to encourage pvp in game and you pretty much discourage it in this patch by making everything pvp relatated too expensive. If people can't make enough isk to replace ships then they aren't going to pvp as much and certainly most pvp minded players won't turn to mining instead.

None ofthe Above
#533 - 2012-04-22 19:19:03 UTC
Atum wrote:
Capsuleer Newton wrote:
Lol Miners Block lobbying for this? or everyone just hates whoever's staying in the Drones Region, or everyone just wants to see more hulks being popped...LolLolLol

All of the above?


None ofthe Above?

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.

Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#534 - 2012-04-23 00:21:00 UTC
Don Kartel wrote:

Demand out strips supply massively and people hate mining for hours on end. mining is the worst thing in the game and pvp'ers are going to suffer becuase ship prices have just doubled in some cases


Simple law of MMOs and markets in general. If it's a job that you don't want to do because it's too difficult / boring / menial / hard / lengthy, then you're going to have to pay someone else to do it.

Your choices are:

- Fly cheaper and reduce your personal demand.
- Help increase supply (become a miner).
- Help others increase supply (help guard the miners).
- HTFU and pay more.

And prices cannot increase infinitely because at some point the harvesting income will become better then flat-rate ISK income such as missions. When miners can make more ISK/hr mining in hi-sec then L4 mission runners can make, then more people start mining and fewer people run missions. This increases the mineral supply while at the same time decreases the ISK faucets.

(Prices are actually, other then the speculation driving stuff up 20-30% above where they normally would be, right around where I expect things to settle in come July/August.)
Draconus Lofwyr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#535 - 2012-04-23 01:45:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Draconus Lofwyr
Don Kartel wrote:
Its good to see rouge drone alloys removed and Meta 0 drops removed however look at the state of the market now and thats before the patch. What are you going to do to balance that out ?

Demand out strips supply massively and people hate mining for hours on end. mining is the worst thing in the game and pvp'ers are going to suffer becuase ship prices have just doubled in some cases

Something needs to be done to boost mineral supply ingame now to balance this mess out a little Nocxium is 1000 isk p/u when traditionally its was 256 isk. Can you see where you messed up ? Keep in mind this is pre-patch, so whats going to happen post patch.

You spend all that time adding content to encourage pvp in game and you pretty much discourage it in this patch by making everything pvp relatated too expensive. If people can't make enough isk to replace ships then they aren't going to pvp as much and certainly most pvp minded players won't turn to mining instead.




while i'm not saying you are one of them, but am just using your post as an example, its so beautifully ironic listening to all the PvPer tears bitching about "how expensive everything is going to be" at the same time calling the WHAAAmpulance over the idea of hardening the exhumers up in other threads. You know what? HTFU yourselves, the mineral and ship prices are now becoming a result of what you yourselves have bitched about for years "do something about the botters" (now i'm glad botters are dealt with, means more isk for my hard work ) " Make ganking easier" "miners aren't playing the real game like i think it should be" whaaa, whaaa, whaaa, go get a fracking tissue and STFU!!!!!

Things change, get over it. learn to adapt and quit shitting in your own back yard. Don't be surprised when prices skyrocket after ganking all the industrialists in high sec and they find other sources of income or quit. don't ***** when you wine and start threadnaughts because someone else has the time and patience you don't to do what you don't want to do.

Personally, i like the changes, i would like to see some more changes, a little extra tank to the exhumers to modernize them to 6+ years of combat tech escalation, change all loot drops to bpc's so even the drones can drop something. somethng more to fill out this anemic patch, it just does not have the feel of a full release update like in times past (perhaps opening the door in the CQ, or some sov updates )

but as with all the **** i didn't like, i will adapt and overcome. make my recommendations, but only ***** about the whiners.

We shall see how this patch comes out, and even CCP says they will have eyes on the market and they probably have more changes queued up just in case to deal with an explosion.


we shall see.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#536 - 2012-04-23 03:59:08 UTC
Don Kartel wrote:
........
Demand out strips supply massively and people hate mining for hours on end. mining is the worst thing in the game and pvp'ers are going to suffer becuase ship prices have just doubled in some cases
...........


According to CCP data as shown in this slide presented at fanfest;

Player likes

Over half the players "somewhat like" or "very much like" mining. The blanket statement "People hate mining" is not supported by the data.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Shannae Darkehart
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#537 - 2012-04-23 05:47:53 UTC
Daioh Azu wrote:
[Wait a minute. Isn't all that Meta 0 loot gonna disappear? Yeah, I think I read that somewhere. Weren't they gonna replace it with something? Yeah, I thought it was Metal Scraps. Let's see, Metal Scraps have a volume of 0.01m3. Trit has a volume of 0.01m3. OK, 1 Metal Scrap refines into 500 Trit. That's a compression ratio of 500:1. That a 1190% improvement, and rats are gonna start dropping it like rain. All you've got to do is convince someone to stand outside with a bucket!


I was wondering if anyone else had figured this out. XD

Love your posts, btw. ♥

I'm sorry if you feel there's a legitimate reason for botting but there isn't and that's basically that. Not liking a game doesn't entitle you to cheat. Ever. At all. Enough with the moral equivalency please. ~CCP Sreegs

Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#538 - 2012-04-23 06:00:46 UTC
Shannae Darkehart wrote:
Daioh Azu wrote:
[Wait a minute. Isn't all that Meta 0 loot gonna disappear? Yeah, I think I read that somewhere. Weren't they gonna replace it with something? Yeah, I thought it was Metal Scraps. Let's see, Metal Scraps have a volume of 0.01m3. Trit has a volume of 0.01m3. OK, 1 Metal Scrap refines into 500 Trit. That's a compression ratio of 500:1. That a 1190% improvement, and rats are gonna start dropping it like rain. All you've got to do is convince someone to stand outside with a bucket!


I was wondering if anyone else had figured this out. XD

Love your posts, btw. ♥

How much ore do the have compared to the items they are replacing?

If its less, then the system is going to see a net loss in the amount of ore being created. Just because they are smaller doesn't mean they are gonna be the new drone poop, since they really don't drop that often.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.

Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#539 - 2012-04-23 13:03:25 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Shannae Darkehart wrote:
Daioh Azu wrote:
[Wait a minute. Isn't all that Meta 0 loot gonna disappear? Yeah, I think I read that somewhere. Weren't they gonna replace it with something? Yeah, I thought it was Metal Scraps. Let's see, Metal Scraps have a volume of 0.01m3. Trit has a volume of 0.01m3. OK, 1 Metal Scrap refines into 500 Trit. That's a compression ratio of 500:1. That a 1190% improvement, and rats are gonna start dropping it like rain. All you've got to do is convince someone to stand outside with a bucket!


I was wondering if anyone else had figured this out. XD

Love your posts, btw. ♥

How much ore do the have compared to the items they are replacing?

If its less, then the system is going to see a net loss in the amount of ore being created. Just because they are smaller doesn't mean they are gonna be the new drone poop, since they really don't drop that often.



Fwiw, I had a quick cursory glance at the Trit requirements for a number of random Meta 0 modules a couple of days ago and in short, pretty much all require more than 500 trit (most >700).

So yeah, there's less ore being added into the game by this change.
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
#540 - 2012-04-23 14:20:33 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Don Kartel wrote:
........
Demand out strips supply massively and people hate mining for hours on end. mining is the worst thing in the game and pvp'ers are going to suffer becuase ship prices have just doubled in some cases
...........


According to CCP data as shown in this slide presented at fanfest;

Player likes

Over half the players "somewhat like" or "very much like" mining. The blanket statement "People hate mining" is not supported by the data.

A couple of my favorite quotes....
Mr. Johnston, 7th grade social studies wrote:
Statistics lie, and liars use statistics.

Benjamin Disraeli(?) wrote:
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Throwing up a graph like that is all fine and dandy, but what CCP doesn't say is how those responses were collected, and they might not even have this information. No useful information is provided when someone who spends all of their time running incursions says "I *LOVE* mining the way it is now, don't change it!" If you want to learn about mining, ask the miners. If you need to know about sov mechanics, ask the null-sec alliances. Go to only the people who take part in that particular part of the game if you want to know what they think is good/bad about it.