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Watch Lists in High Sec

Author
London Spy
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#161 - 2016-12-02 19:24:10 UTC  |  Edited by: London Spy
baltec1 wrote:
London Spy wrote:


I was mercing before hubcamping became the done thing


It was a thing 4 years before you started.

London Spy wrote:


- including when the playerbase was a fraction of the size now. Im saying you need to go back to the oldschool. Not this wardec everything and pop a hauler in jita lark. Im quite dissapointed on how the recent methods have blighted the profession.


It can't go back until mercs have a tool that will allow them the filter out the targets not playing the game.

London Spy wrote:


Eve is all about the long game - not COD mechanics. Information is key, and use of that information is crucial.


And spending all of your time chasing people not even logged in is **** gameplay.


It takes no time to zip about in a ceptor. Unfortunately since the blanket decs, more people are aware of the shenanigans that come with it, so you have inadvertently made your job harder, as the chances are they have eyes on you well before you even leave.

They adjust accordingly, so you need to outsmart your prey. Get locates and areas before you declare. Move assets into position. Any frequent routes? Instead of camping home system, maybe camp the gate a few down from the next area, scout them coming on the move.

There are a hundred ways to skin a cat. Unfortunately you dont appear to have the patience for espionage, which is a very large component of eve. So really, if you want to merc you should be offering your services to some null types, they are always happy to have competitor supply lines and income disrupted from my experience, and they are a much easier to predict along with the bonus of being able to shoot anyone.

Mercs are not limited to High-Sec. Zkillboard is your current filter btw.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#162 - 2016-12-02 19:36:37 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
London Spy wrote:


It takes no time to zip about in a ceptor.


The more you speak, the more we know you have never been a merc.
London Spy wrote:

Unfortunately since the blanket decs, more people are aware of the shenanigans that come with it, so you have inadvertently made your job harder, as the chances are they have eyes on you well before you even leave.


Leave where? The bulk of the kills fly to the mercs themselves, hence why you will find the mercs camping the likes of jita, amarr and main tradelanes.

London Spy wrote:

They adjust accordingly, so you need to outsmart your prey. Get locates and areas before you declare. Move assets into position. Any frequent routes? Instead of camping home system, maybe camp the gate a few down from the next area, scout them coming on the move.


London Spy wrote:

There are a hundred ways to skin a cat. Unfortunately you dont appear to have the patience for espionage, which is a very large component of eve. So really, if you want to merc you should be offering your services to some null types, they are always happy to have competitor supply lines and income disrupted from my experience, and they are a much easier to predict along with the bonus of being able to shoot anyone.

Mercs are not limited to High-Sec. Zkillboard is your current filter btw.


What part of most of the people you will hunt are offline are you not understanding here?

You are chasing shadows, there is no intel you can gather, there is no tool you can use to filer out the offline players. Mercs are saddled with either wardec everything or spend all of your time chasing target not even there. There are zero ways to skin this cat.
London Spy
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#163 - 2016-12-02 19:40:31 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
London Spy wrote:


It takes no time to zip about in a ceptor.


The more you speak, the more we know you have never been a merc.
London Spy wrote:

Unfortunately since the blanket decs, more people are aware of the shenanigans that come with it, so you have inadvertently made your job harder, as the chances are they have eyes on you well before you even leave.


Leave where? The bulk of the kills fly to the mercs themselves, hence why you will find the mercs camping the likes of jita, amarr and main tradelanes.

London Spy wrote:

They adjust accordingly, so you need to outsmart your prey. Get locates and areas before you declare. Move assets into position. Any frequent routes? Instead of camping home system, maybe camp the gate a few down from the next area, scout them coming on the move.


London Spy wrote:

There are a hundred ways to skin a cat. Unfortunately you dont appear to have the patience for espionage, which is a very large component of eve. So really, if you want to merc you should be offering your services to some null types, they are always happy to have competitor supply lines and income disrupted from my experience, and they are a much easier to predict along with the bonus of being able to shoot anyone.

Mercs are not limited to High-Sec. Zkillboard is your current filter btw.


What part of most of the people you will hunt are offline are you not understanding here?

You are chasing shadows, there is no intel you can gather, there is no tool you can use to filer out the offline players. Mercs are saddled with either wardec everything or spend all of your time chasing target not even there. There are zero ways to skin this cat.


When you are a merc everything is a shadow.. until you find it. You can always add them to your contact list, maybe the less bright ones will accept. Or the ones who are bait.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#164 - 2016-12-02 19:49:28 UTC
London Spy wrote:

When you are a merc everything is a shadow.. until you find it. You can always add them to your contact list, maybe the less bright ones will accept. Or the ones who are bait.


Enough with the bullshit, the gameplay for mercs is bad and its bad due to a change made to benefit people they don't even hunt. You are no merc, you have never been a merc and frankly you are probably one of those bears that hates the idea of pvp at any time so naturally you want mercs to be crippled. There is no other explanation for the way you are acting.
Salvos Rhoska
#165 - 2016-12-02 19:50:42 UTC
Mfw my beautiful articulate post is buried under quote posting of no significance.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#166 - 2016-12-02 19:55:00 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Enough with the bullshit, the gameplay for mercs is bad and its bad due to a change made to benefit people they don't even hunt. You are no merc, you have never been a merc and frankly you are probably one of those bears that hates the idea of pvp at any time so naturally you want mercs to be crippled. There is no other explanation for the way you are acting.

The gameplay around watch lists was always terrible also though. Keeping a bad mechanic is always bad, and it was bad for high sec play just the same as for supers.
Just put online/offline status in the locator agent response. If you are hunting you will either have a corp spy, in which case you can tell, an alt with eyes on target in which case you can tell, or run a locator in which case you currently can't tell. So lets fix the exception to that list, locator agents are not free intel, they come at both isk cost & opportunity cost of not running it on another target, so all is good in the world then.
Spacing Cowgirl
Holland NV
#167 - 2016-12-02 20:08:49 UTC
Starrakatt wrote:
London Spy wrote:
Thats a problem how?

Because then you can work out a pattern of log in times. Seriously, i dont want to teach you how to suck eggs but you need to put work in - thats what you get paid for.

I think you are forgetting one basic concept here: EVE is a game. Nobody is going to set up a team of observer(s) on 24 hours shifts for days, sitting in a station to see if War Targets are actually loggin in. Do that in 10-20 systems to cover all of the targeted corp characters. And that is ONE contract.

That's called a job, and a ******, very boring one at that. That would be better done, in RL, remotely, with camera systems and recordings.



Hey, you want to be a merc..
You now sound like a ice miner who's bitching about that he have to find ice rocks first,
and cant use his year old bookmarks anymore.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#168 - 2016-12-02 20:09:08 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Enough with the bullshit, the gameplay for mercs is bad and its bad due to a change made to benefit people they don't even hunt. You are no merc, you have never been a merc and frankly you are probably one of those bears that hates the idea of pvp at any time so naturally you want mercs to be crippled. There is no other explanation for the way you are acting.

The gameplay around watch lists was always terrible also though. Keeping a bad mechanic is always bad, and it was bad for high sec play just the same as for supers.
Just put online/offline status in the locator agent response. If you are hunting you will either have a corp spy, in which case you can tell, an alt with eyes on target in which case you can tell, or run a locator in which case you currently can't tell. So lets fix the exception to that list, locator agents are not free intel, they come at both isk cost & opportunity cost of not running it on another target, so all is good in the world then.


I have been calling for a simple "the target has gone to ground" message for when running a locator on an offline player, London Spy is against giving any help to mercs.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#169 - 2016-12-02 20:10:16 UTC
Spacing Cowgirl wrote:



Hey, you want to be a merc..
You now sound like a ice miner who's bitching about that he have to find ice rocks first,
and cant use his year old bookmarks anymore.


More like he is complaining about spending all of his time looking for ice that isn't even there.
Spacing Cowgirl
Holland NV
#170 - 2016-12-02 20:22:05 UTC
Ive been on all sides of "eve"

Pray as a noob, hunting noobs later on.. and made the server nearly lag when i logged in
wartime jf pilots and supers so many watchlist where blinking.

No more "watchlist" is fine by me,
roots out the incompetent , the good one's still find there targets.

How i see it , most merc corps i know are bashing on the new guys, the easy pray
to pimp there killboard with T1 cruiser kills , and maybe a badger...
Preferable with there T2/T3 pimped out boats who kills about anything the new guy can field.
( i was one once also )

Merc's have there place in this game, yet, i do think.. The one's that have trouble finding and killing
there targets , might want to take some classes of the one's who still do there thing.



And yes, as a pilot who had every red super pilot and cyno hunter on his list , i can live very good with that.
Thats why i now have alts, and alliance members with covops .
But yes, now , it does take effort to get your intel.
Eve, its just a little less safe , can live very good with that.
Salvos Rhoska
#171 - 2016-12-02 20:30:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Spacing Cowgirl wrote:
Eve, its just a little less safe , can live very good with that.


Where the hell did you suddenly appear from.

And no, EVE is not "just a little less safe" now.
Its even safer than before. The complete opposite.
Especially for NS Titan/Cap pilots.
Kara Hawke
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#172 - 2016-12-02 21:12:44 UTC
London Spy wrote:
Starrakatt wrote:
Now I know you are just trolling, that or you have really no idea.


I'm not trolling, the complainers just seem inherently lazy.


Of course they're lazy, they're complaining about how much harder it is to find and kill what are more than likely pve'ers and Indy players that probably can't defend themselves, because if they weren't, they wouldn't be complaining about the watchlist because their wartargets wouldn't be hiding from them.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#173 - 2016-12-02 21:20:51 UTC
Kara Hawke wrote:
London Spy wrote:
Starrakatt wrote:
Now I know you are just trolling, that or you have really no idea.


I'm not trolling, the complainers just seem inherently lazy.


Of course they're lazy, they're complaining about how much harder it is to find and kill what are more than likely pve'ers and Indy players that probably can't defend themselves, because if they weren't, they wouldn't be complaining about the watchlist because their wartargets wouldn't be hiding from them.


The complaint is that it is next to impossible to hunt targets now because there is no way to tell if the target is online or not. Its akin the mission runners complaining that mission agents are randomly depositing their mission somewhere in new eden with a 90% chance the mission doesn't actually exist.
Scipio Artelius
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#174 - 2016-12-02 21:23:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Spacing Cowgirl wrote:
Merc's have there place in this game, yet, i do think.. The one's that have trouble finding and killing
there targets , might want to take some classes of the one's who still do there thing.

I'm not a merc, but I am sympathetic to the issue caused by the watchlist changes and do believe it isn't as easy to find targets as you think.

However, having been a merc yourself and thinking it is so easy, I'll make a wager with you.

I'll give 2 Billion ISK to Chribba (and pay his fee).

If you can hunt me and find me in space within 1 week, just playing my normal game (so no hiding in wormholes), the 2 Billion is yours.

No requirement the other way. I am confident that you will have difficulty and think the boredom of trying to find me, not even trying to hide, will be bad enough as it is; together with the loss of credibility showing the argument is hollow.

So if you agree, post in a reply. Then I'll transfer the ISK to Chribba and have him post here as well and from then, the 7 days starts.

Show us all how easy it is.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#175 - 2016-12-02 21:32:36 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Spacing Cowgirl wrote:
Merc's have there place in this game, yet, i do think.. The one's that have trouble finding and killing
there targets , might want to take some classes of the one's who still do there thing.

I'm not a merc, but I am sympathetic to the issue caused by the watchlist changes and do believe it isn't as easy to find targets as you think.

However, having been a merc yourself and thinking it is so easy, I'll make a wager with you.

I'll give 2 Billion ISK to Chribba (and pay his fee).

If you can hunt me and find me in space within 1 week, just playing my normal game (so no hiding in wormholes), the 2 Billion is yours.

No requirement the other way. I am confident that you will have difficulty and think the boredom of trying to find me, not even trying to hide, will be bad enough as it is.

So if you agree, post in a reply. Then I'll transfer the ISK to Chribba and have him post here as well and from then, the 7 days starts.

Show us all how easy it is.

I'd add the condition that he needs to actually get an agreed upon character ongrid with you while you're online
Scipio Artelius
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#176 - 2016-12-02 21:35:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Spacing Cowgirl wrote:
Merc's have there place in this game, yet, i do think.. The one's that have trouble finding and killing
there targets , might want to take some classes of the one's who still do there thing.

I'm not a merc, but I am sympathetic to the issue caused by the watchlist changes and do believe it isn't as easy to find targets as you think.

However, having been a merc yourself and thinking it is so easy, I'll make a wager with you.

I'll give 2 Billion ISK to Chribba (and pay his fee).

If you can hunt me and find me in space within 1 week, just playing my normal game (so no hiding in wormholes), the 2 Billion is yours.

No requirement the other way. I am confident that you will have difficulty and think the boredom of trying to find me, not even trying to hide, will be bad enough as it is.

So if you agree, post in a reply. Then I'll transfer the ISK to Chribba and have him post here as well and from then, the 7 days starts.

Show us all how easy it is.

I'd add the condition that he needs to actually get an agreed upon character ongrid with you while you're online

Yes, that is the intent of 'find me in space' but stated much clearer.

That would be the only rule. Spacing Cowgirl on grid with me within 7 days of Chribba posting in this thread if the challenge is accepted.
Wanda Fayne
#177 - 2016-12-02 23:00:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Wanda Fayne
baltec1 wrote:

I have been calling for a simple "the target has gone to ground" message for when running a locator on an offline player


I could just keep quoting this. Nobody is arguing against it. It keeps coming up in every watchlist thread.
I am still optimistic that this will come to be in the near future.

Edit:
thanks Ralph, I updated my sig

"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-

  • - "hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
Wanda Fayne
#178 - 2016-12-02 23:05:41 UTC
Kara Hawke wrote:
London Spy wrote:
Starrakatt wrote:
Now I know you are just trolling, that or you have really no idea.


I'm not trolling, the complainers just seem inherently lazy.


Of course they're lazy, they're complaining about how much harder it is to find and kill what are more than likely pve'ers and Indy players that probably can't defend themselves, because if they weren't, they wouldn't be complaining about the watchlist because their wartargets wouldn't be hiding from them.


Have you tried even discussing your wardec with your opponent? And I don't mean screaming in local or nasty mail.
Simple convo or mail asking "Hello, just wanted to know why you declared war on us?"

I'm curious...

"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-

  • - "hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#179 - 2016-12-02 23:22:25 UTC
Wanda Fayne wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

I have been calling for a simple "the target has gone to ground" message for when running a locator on an offline player


I could just keep quoting this. Nobody is arguing against it. It keeps coming up in every watchlist thread.
I am still optimistic that this will come to be in the near future.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6630762#post6630762
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#180 - 2016-12-03 09:43:16 UTC
I am not a merc either, however I have started to do war decs, what is important to me is target selection which I have touched on before, and the target selection aspect which is most important is that your target has something tangible in space.

The very fact that you are targeting a character who can move around different systems should make it hard and the easy no cost perfect intel of the watch list was abhorrent to me as is much of the data on the Eve map. The sad fact is that many of you got used to that free intel and based you play around that, and of course it hurts your play style.

I see baltec1 who is a can flipper, 0.0 player and ganker who has never done hisec merc stuff claiming that it is next to impossible to hunt targets and bow beating people who go against his point of view. Well as you are after a character who can go anywhere on Eve it damn well should be and to equate it to missions as he did above is so laughable that it pushed me to make this post.

Over time hisec has developed into an area where people avoid war decs, fair enough success in the end has turned into a loss of potential targets, so all you really have left is people who can avoid and people doing logistics from null sec alliances which is what the majority of kills are, it is simple evolution, but I see more and more Citadels put up and no war decs, and I have to wonder why you are war dec'ing people who can easily run away and hide and yet you do not war dec the people with Citadels, is that because you are failing to evolve. I went after POCO's owned by war dec entities, quite fun that, I have little chance of winning, but I am having a good laugh at the over kill brought to the first defence and then the failed log off trap on the second POCO, but it was P I R A T who are laughable.

I think that with the removal of the watch list giving you free intel on people logged will result in your prey changing their approach to move around less because their login status is not reported, give it time and stop being so defeatist, the prey will adjust and think that their log off not being detailed will make it easier for them and will make it easier for you in fact I am sure that you are seeing that happen.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp