These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Introducing Clone States & the Future of Access to EVE

First post First post First post
Author
Siera Bobs
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1361 - 2016-09-15 03:45:41 UTC
Remove Industry from alphas,

1 - install eve on my gf`s lappy
2- stock up on minerals and researched blueprints
3- make alphas and train indy
4-trade bps and minerals to alphas
5-after a few months log back on alphas trade all the things back to main
Siera Bobs
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1362 - 2016-09-15 03:55:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Siera Bobs
and honestly i think the vets will be creating more alphas then actual new players, the biggest reason people stay away from EVE isnt the subscription , its the state of the universe - progression , while in any other MMO you can still catch up to the very first player that ever played the game in a reasonable ammount of time, its not the case here ... so they see it as "pointless"to even try it out.
Clacker McDucky
#1363 - 2016-09-15 17:30:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Clacker McDucky
**********************************************

I think I feel a song coming on!

Nevermind...it was just gas.
Morgals
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1364 - 2016-09-15 19:18:33 UTC
Looking through the alpha clone skills I think the drone skills of amar and gallentai make them significantly more powerful than caldari or minmitar.

Bumping caldari and minmitar to drone 4 would help a lot as a few ships do have 40m3 of drone bandwidth.

I would also like to see more than 1 skill point in target painting. target painting is not as useful at level 1 and should be brought up to level 3.

Looking for a mature, adult gaming community that has been active in EvE since 2004?Recruitment is open! Come join our public channel and get to know us. SG-Recruiting

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#1365 - 2016-09-15 20:28:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Morgals wrote:
Looking through the alpha clone skills I think the drone skills of amar and gallentai make them significantly more powerful than caldari or minmitar.

Bumping caldari and minmitar to drone 4 would help a lot as a few ships do have 40m3 of drone bandwidth.

I would also like to see more than 1 skill point in target painting. target painting is not as useful at level 1 and should be brought up to level 3.


Neither caldari nor minmatar can even use medium drones. This mainly hurts them with the gnosis (the best ship alphas can fly) I don't mind whether they reduce the amarr or gallente or boost the caldari, but until they do the races have a substantial imbalance.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Morgals
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1366 - 2016-09-15 21:53:21 UTC
Didn't even notice the lack of medium drones...so you can't even attempt to fully use the ships...

Yeah medium drones are not a nice to have but need to have.

Looking for a mature, adult gaming community that has been active in EvE since 2004?Recruitment is open! Come join our public channel and get to know us. SG-Recruiting

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1367 - 2016-09-16 04:06:38 UTC
Namaan
Cursoribus
#1368 - 2016-09-16 15:38:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Namaan
Cearain wrote:
Morgals wrote:
Looking through the alpha clone skills I think the drone skills of amar and gallentai make them significantly more powerful than caldari or minmitar.

Bumping caldari and minmitar to drone 4 would help a lot as a few ships do have 40m3 of drone bandwidth.

I would also like to see more than 1 skill point in target painting. target painting is not as useful at level 1 and should be brought up to level 3.


Neither caldari nor minmatar can even use medium drones. This mainly hurts them with the gnosis (the best ship alphas can fly) I don't mind whether they reduce the amarr or gallente or boost the caldari, but until they do the races have a substantial imbalance.


Indeed, it's definitely an area that needs to be fixed... boost Drones on the 2 races, and drop alpha pi, problem solved.

Alphas don't need PI, as is they can do well enough with PvP, FW, plus some marketing, and mining, don't need PI too.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1369 - 2016-09-16 19:05:44 UTC
Namaan wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Morgals wrote:
Looking through the alpha clone skills I think the drone skills of amar and gallentai make them significantly more powerful than caldari or minmitar.

Bumping caldari and minmitar to drone 4 would help a lot as a few ships do have 40m3 of drone bandwidth.

I would also like to see more than 1 skill point in target painting. target painting is not as useful at level 1 and should be brought up to level 3.


Neither caldari nor minmatar can even use medium drones. This mainly hurts them with the gnosis (the best ship alphas can fly) I don't mind whether they reduce the amarr or gallente or boost the caldari, but until they do the races have a substantial imbalance.


Indeed, it's definitely an area that needs to be fixed... boost Drones on the 2 races, and drop alpha pi, problem solved.

Alphas don't need PI, as is they can do well enough with PvP, FW, plus some marketing, and mining, don't need PI too.


Unless something has changed, the Devblog does not include PI skills.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Namaan
Cursoribus
#1370 - 2016-09-16 19:14:50 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Namaan wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Morgals wrote:
Looking through the alpha clone skills I think the drone skills of amar and gallentai make them significantly more powerful than caldari or minmitar.

Bumping caldari and minmitar to drone 4 would help a lot as a few ships do have 40m3 of drone bandwidth.

I would also like to see more than 1 skill point in target painting. target painting is not as useful at level 1 and should be brought up to level 3.


Neither caldari nor minmatar can even use medium drones. This mainly hurts them with the gnosis (the best ship alphas can fly) I don't mind whether they reduce the amarr or gallente or boost the caldari, but until they do the races have a substantial imbalance.


Indeed, it's definitely an area that needs to be fixed... boost Drones on the 2 races, and drop alpha pi, problem solved.

Alphas don't need PI, as is they can do well enough with PvP, FW, plus some marketing, and mining, don't need PI too.


Unless something has changed, the Devblog does not include PI skills.


The unanswered questions are about Alphas running preset up PIs.
Yak X
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#1371 - 2016-09-16 19:35:26 UTC
I like the idea of ftp however my first tought was now i can have a free scout and pi , wich seems to be the main problem with this model.

Suggestion

State sponsored capsuleers.

Following the same logic of the racial skills, the objective is to narrow down the alpha clone functionality within the game.

example
you create a new industrial character, wich will be sent to an industrial npc corp of the empire you choose, and indy alpha character will have a slower skill progression than an omega one, but it could also have a much slower progression on skills that are not necessary for industrial pourposes, the speed will be faster or slower according to how necessary they are for the chosen profession, and the difference will increase the more the alpha character specialices in its chosen profession, maybe even to the point of locking them out of some skills.

The skills available to train for the alpha clones could be tied to the an npc corporation, and only available when the standings are reached, this will not matter to someone playing the character on the job they choose, but will force anyone else to grind for the character skills.

There could be also tax and services walls between empires following the same logic, so if you are gallente you will pay the same as an omega clone in gallente space, but taxes will be higher depending on standings between your chosen character race and other factions, and no way to change this by doing missions, this will localize alpha clones to their chosen empire and eventualy npc corp in any profession, making them an npc sponsored capsuleer, like a cold faction warfare.

As the character progresses it will become more difficult to multirole and more specialized characters will be more difficult to get since they cannot be obtained afk, it might even allow for free characters to train for anything they want, within a narow path.

Alpha clones could get penalties for going against the npc faction they belong to, like loosing the skill funtionality, they could also join player corps but only if standings allow it.

Alpha clones cannot be bought.

P.s.- Add pirate factions to faction warfare and wis.




Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1372 - 2016-09-17 05:34:44 UTC
Namaan wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Namaan wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Morgals wrote:
Looking through the alpha clone skills I think the drone skills of amar and gallentai make them significantly more powerful than caldari or minmitar.

Bumping caldari and minmitar to drone 4 would help a lot as a few ships do have 40m3 of drone bandwidth.

I would also like to see more than 1 skill point in target painting. target painting is not as useful at level 1 and should be brought up to level 3.


Neither caldari nor minmatar can even use medium drones. This mainly hurts them with the gnosis (the best ship alphas can fly) I don't mind whether they reduce the amarr or gallente or boost the caldari, but until they do the races have a substantial imbalance.


Indeed, it's definitely an area that needs to be fixed... boost Drones on the 2 races, and drop alpha pi, problem solved.

Alphas don't need PI, as is they can do well enough with PvP, FW, plus some marketing, and mining, don't need PI too.


Unless something has changed, the Devblog does not include PI skills.


The unanswered questions are about Alphas running preset up PIs.


And...how would they do this? Can player A access player B's PI set up?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1373 - 2016-09-17 07:24:53 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

And...how would they do this? Can player A access player B's PI set up?

Spend 1-2 months as Omega. First month on a referral is free effectively since you get matching game time on your main account. You train PI skills during that time. Then you drop back to Alpha status having your PI up & running. Since they haven't answered if they can actually stop an alpha using PI it's already trained and set up it's possible that you could have free alpha PI alts using this method.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1374 - 2016-09-17 09:03:36 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

And...how would they do this? Can player A access player B's PI set up?

Spend 1-2 months as Omega. First month on a referral is free effectively since you get matching game time on your main account. You train PI skills during that time. Then you drop back to Alpha status having your PI up & running. Since they haven't answered if they can actually stop an alpha using PI it's already trained and set up it's possible that you could have free alpha PI alts using this method.


And can they still access it without the skills?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Kaleic Karrif
Mentally Challenged Miners
#1375 - 2016-09-17 12:45:57 UTC
I applaud your decision to add alpha state to the game for some sort of Free to Play to the game. However I do have 1 concern with this.

I feel that the limitations may be too restrictive to be profitable for CCP and all around advantageous for the normal f2p gamer.

So while I understand CCP's approach to getting new and returning players back into the game and the goal is for a full subscription.

While this is a solid premise at the end of the day it would be more profitable to set in place a hard limitation to 1 Alpha account per Hardware Mac address, similar to what DayBreakGames did for their TrueBox servers where 1 Machine can only run 1 Client per connection, however multiple machines could be used. This would prevent free accounts from multi boxing and farming,

However I believe the ability for free accounts to reach a state of income where they can PLEX their account would increase the number of PLEX purchased thus increasing the overall income benefit of going F2P model. I am hugely against micro-purchases as I am sure the entire eve community is.

I believe that the ability to fly Mining Barges and use tech 1 strip miners would be sufficient income capability for players to farm up to earn a plex and utilizing a software similar to the TrueBox I mentioned earlier which blocks multiple accounts from running based on Machine Media Access Control address (MAC) would prevent this system from being exploited.
Titokhan Drumheller
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1376 - 2016-09-18 00:24:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Titokhan Drumheller
I understand that with a 5 mil skillpoint cap on alphas, you want to give the soon to come f2p people a little variety.. and letting them raise more than a few skills to 5 will really eat into that..

now granted I'm about as old as they get character wise (but with my multiple multi-year hibernations means I dont quite have the SP base some people with 11 year old accounts have and i'm not quite up to speed on some things), but perhaps changing the max skills available to alphas based on career choices made at character creation could work better than a one size fits all approach

Example : a new f2p character creating say a Caldari passive shield tanking missile jockey (ok, I admit I'm using myself as a base here due to my primary ship being a drake..) would lose some of the industrial/exploration/non main weapon max levels for higher caps on the skills they would be more likely to use. and even then you wouldn't be able to max everything they would use


would also appear its going to make race specific gear and ships available TO f2p'rs a lot more profitable, given lack of access to t2 and beyond..

Edit: using the above mentioned missile jockey as a template would be harder, as the drake is the only caldari missile boat that has shield resist bonuses, but the idea still seems sound
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#1377 - 2016-09-18 01:15:30 UTC
"Gone" won't quite mean what it used to.
There was one guy in a certain other game who used to be on the top of what passed for killboards. One day, someone stepped on a third rail in the off-topic forum. He got squelched for something, think it had to do with stepping on a locally sensitive political topic.

He then went to another forum with his alts and tried to get the devs to pardon his main. He was gone, and so were all his alts.
Well, not quite. The next day, there was a day-one newbie doing exactly the same thing in exactly the same forum, with exactly the same posting style. It was obvious the character wasn't being used to play the game, because in-game channels could look.
Soapboxing all day about politics tends to make you a few "fans" with people who don't like what you have to say. Leaving that guy there cost the community of that game a few people.
If we have to give CCP payment information to play the game, "banned" has a lot more teeth to it. If we don't, well... can't say you didn't know.

A signature :o

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1378 - 2016-09-18 01:32:05 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

And can they still access it without the skills?

The Devs haven't properly answered what happens to skills after you revert to Alpha clones. They've said 'locked' but not explained what that actually means. Does it mean you get no bonuses from them at all. Does it mean you can't train them. Does it mean you can't fly ships on them. Etc.
There are a lot of use cases that they haven't sufficiently expanded on as to how the lock works and what it means.
Lord Mudeki
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1379 - 2016-09-18 19:13:47 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

And can they still access it without the skills?

The Devs haven't properly answered what happens to skills after you revert to Alpha clones. They've said 'locked' but not explained what that actually means. Does it mean you get no bonuses from them at all. Does it mean you can't train them. Does it mean you can't fly ships on them. Etc.
There are a lot of use cases that they haven't sufficiently expanded on as to how the lock works and what it means.



By locked it means if your skills are higher then what the Alpha state allows then it will locked out the parts that are over the Alpha cap and you wont get any bonuses from anything above the cap, I mean what is there to explain its pretty self explanatory
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#1380 - 2016-09-19 10:45:58 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

And can they still access it without the skills?

The Devs haven't properly answered what happens to skills after you revert to Alpha clones. They've said 'locked' but not explained what that actually means. Does it mean you get no bonuses from them at all. Does it mean you can't train them. Does it mean you can't fly ships on them. Etc.
There are a lot of use cases that they haven't sufficiently expanded on as to how the lock works and what it means.


The question specifically about PI is that IF a player has already colony installed and fully functional can he keep using the colony regardless of NOT having the skills needed to make another one?

It would, in theory, be easy to test by ripping out the PI skills of a character having the PI setup going using the skill extractor. IF these skills can be extracted in the current live server. Even if they can not be extracted currently that would mean that there has been some technical difficulty in this regard and CCP has thought about it in the past.

Third option is that while CCP has considered the implications the final version of Alphas will roll out as it is while they hope to clamp down the PI "issue" in some further release. Which might mean that some number of Alphas would sub to set up PI farming and then revert back to Alpha only to have the carpet yanked out under them few months later with a message - this was never intended to be possible, so sorry for your loss and link to the HTFU video ;)

I suspect we will get more or less exactly what is in the first devblog regardless of massive feedback and a lot of different ideas/opinions on the matter. They have been working on it apparently a bit over a year and it's far too close to November for them to do any kind of radical design changes to this feature.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.