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Why does a corp want my api?
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2016-05-07 19:47:54 UTC
The API discussion comes up regularly ... and as long as corps can and are allowed to request a full API, they will do. Intel is everything in EvE, a game about control and power.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#42 - 2016-05-08 01:09:32 UTC
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
Ashlar Maidstone wrote:
...In all seriousness tho, any corp/alliance that asks for a full API you should be leary of, but then again there are corps/alliances out there that are quite honorable, ask CVA, Shadow Cartel, just to name a couple of highly respectable alliances.


It only takes a change in leadership to go from honorable and respectable to something out of the movies. Just ask many people in certain countries these days for RL analogies.

Its a slippery slope, and when Corps start wanting full API and even more like RL information, that is when you really start to consider why. Its like anything on the Internet, once it is known, it will never go away and when a previously honorable org becomes no longer honorable, what are you going to do then?

Eve really allows some questionable players to really screw over a whole group on levels that couldn't happen IRL, and in response you see groups trying to protect themselves in ways that RL Gov'ts and Corporations do,
...and that is not a good thing.

CCP likes to think it is cool that they have allowed players to do this, but it will only come out bad in the end. The more players try to protect themselves, the more they will drive players away from the game, the smart ones anyways.


It is a game design issue that they need to fix:
One person should not be able to disband an Organization and should not be able to steal so much, and with no real in-game consequence. New unrelated players can easily be purchased in-game.

Such things should always require multiple player approval for asset/Isk transfers or Corp kicking and or majority leadership approval for it to even happen.

And what are we going to say when the first confirmed out-of-game serious violent crime happens related to Eve Online due to in-game activity where the players true identity was disclosed due to common in-game player screening activities, that are forced due to players trying to protect themselves as a result of truly bad game design that is played off as being hard core PVP content?

I realize the EULA protects CCP, but think of the moral responsibility.

Way to over react.

Best over reaction post in the forum so far this year.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#43 - 2016-05-08 01:36:47 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
The API discussion comes up regularly ... and as long as corps can and are allowed to request a full API, they will do. Intel is everything in EvE, a game about control and power.



Well, that's plainly wrong, it's about shooting red crosses while wearing earmuffs and blinkers to pretend no one else exists in New Eden

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Kieron VonDeux
#44 - 2016-05-08 02:29:43 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Way to over react.

Best over reaction post in the forum so far this year.


I would say that you are dangerously naïve to the nature of many who play this game.

I will just leave it at that.
Professor Humbert
Project Fruit House
#45 - 2016-05-08 02:55:35 UTC
I'm a trader and if somebody asks me for my full API including asset list, market transactions and order lists that's a big f**k you no way it's gonna happen.
Zathra Narazi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2016-05-08 03:11:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Zathra Narazi
Gwenaelle de Ardevon wrote:
my wallet ... is mine. Big smile
and no ones has to look in! Bear


You're definitely a spy. That or you're buying black market ISK. Nobody else would care about anyone seeing how many cap boosters they go through.

Gwenaelle de Ardevon wrote:
or can i have a full Api of CEOs or/and Directors.

If they don't trust me, why should i trust them? Pirate

Ugh

That's not even close to the same thing. You're nobody and no spy wants your API. On the other hand spies have wet dreams about getting their APIs.

Kieron VonDeux wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Way to over react.

Best over reaction post in the forum so far this year.


I would say that you are dangerously naïve to the nature of many who play this game.

I will just leave it at that.



I'd say you're Alex Jones level paranoid delusional. I've been giving corps my API since APIs were a thing and nothing bad has ever happened. Shocking, I know, but the leaders of massive alliances have nothing to gain from messing with their line members.
Kieron VonDeux
#47 - 2016-05-08 03:46:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Kieron VonDeux
Zathra Narazi wrote:
Gwenaelle de Ardevon wrote:
my wallet ... is mine. Big smile
and no ones has to look in! Bear


You're definitely a spy. That or you're buying black market ISK. Nobody else would care about anyone seeing how many cap boosters they go through.

Gwenaelle de Ardevon wrote:
or can i have a full Api of CEOs or/and Directors.

If they don't trust me, why should i trust them? Pirate

Ugh

That's not even close to the same thing. You're nobody and no spy wants your API. On the other hand spies have wet dreams about getting their APIs.



The assumption, or I should say, the policy to assume anyone who will not comply as having ulterior motives is the real problem.



When Eve first started, loyalty was determined mostly by actions, but Eve Online's game design made it too easy for a spy to do
disproportionate damage. Way too much tbh.

After API Keys were released to allow us the flexibility to track in-game things outside of game, Limited Keys were the most common for Corp membership and many didn't like that.

Now Full API Keys are becoming the norm with details about RL information becoming more common place.


Soon, it may be expected that you have to provide RL information to be even considered for many groups and the "uneducated" or careless will have little issue.

Once RL information starts to be farmed and traded, like full API information is now with many, the true issues start to come up.

If you do something in-game that someone doesn't like or don't do something in game that is highly suggested, you could have RL consequences for that, depending on who you offended.

If one group gets a spy into another group and harvests all that personal information,...

Instead of the hourly DDOS attacks on your comms that many of us are familiar with when we start fighting particular groups, you may start getting RL consequences which are solely determined by the morality of the individuals and the opportunity presented to those who you are fighting against.

This is Eve Online remember...


It is a slippery slope and when players start accepting Full APIs as the norm and RL information starts to enter the picture, things can just go bad.

CCP should step back from this and change game design to make this less of an issue than it is now.
ACESsiggy
Deaths Consortium
#48 - 2016-05-08 04:09:49 UTC  |  Edited by: ACESsiggy
"you could be a spy"

Oh the irony.

“The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.”
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#49 - 2016-05-08 04:13:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Way to over react.

Best over reaction post in the forum so far this year.


I would say that you are dangerously naïve to the nature of many who play this game.

What do you mean?

ISK doublers have never actually doubled my ISK, but I keep trying. They seem so genuine.


Edit: As to the actual content of your over reaction post, on these parts:

Now Full API Keys are becoming the norm with details about RL information becoming more common place.

If it's common place to ask details about RL information, you'll have no problem pointing to many verifiable examples. After all, if it's common, examples of that should be common, no?

And:

[i...]when a previously honorable org becomes no longer honorable, what are you going to do then?[/i]

How about, delete the API key? That would be a good start. The rest is common sense how to handle it.

And finally this golden nugget:

And what are we going to say when the first confirmed out-of-game serious violent crime happens related to Eve Online due to in-game activity where the players true identity was disclosed due to common in-game player screening activities,

The game is 13 years old now. What level of risk do you think there is after hundreds of thousands of players have played the game, all across the World and there has never been a case of a serious violent crime.

As normal with these wild claims, your thinking isn't matched by any evidence what so ever. It's just all wild thoughts in your mind and all of it is easy for you to actually verify rather than come out with this level of craziness. Of course, if you can support your claims with actual evidence, then they won't be wild claims. But until then, that's all they are. Wild and baseless.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Kieron VonDeux
#50 - 2016-05-08 05:23:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Kieron VonDeux
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
...clipped...



Would you freely give players who you recently met and heard good things about your real life personal information such as full name, phone number, physical address, or place of work, to join if they required it to join their Corp?

Some of that already has been reported to be required in some groups already in this thread, which I also heard rumors about awhile back from other players.

Information that could be later stolen by an actual spy in that organization? That could be distributed to all their friends as many full APIs are now.

I am suggesting that we could be moving to that with more and more groups after full APIs become the accepted norm and Spais adjust around that with fully unrelated alternate accounts that have no association with their main account(s).

You can't catch those even with Full API Keys so where are Corp / Alliance security experts going to turn to then besides IP Routing which can be "disguised" with effort?


And no, I am not saying that violent crime would happen. I'm saying it is one of the worst that could, but there are many RL consequences you could face if somebody who developed a beef with you in game knew your name, your phone number, or where you lived and wanted to anonymously create issues for you or even issues for a group of players.

And if you don't think players in Eve Online would do that, I have a bridge I would like to sell you, as the old saying goes.
Hawke Frost
#51 - 2016-05-08 05:51:11 UTC
tinfoilhat.jpg
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#52 - 2016-05-08 05:55:23 UTC
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
...clipped...

Would you freely give players who you recently met and heard good things about your real life personal information such as full name, phone number, physical address, or place of work, to join if they required it to join their Corp?

Some of that already has been reported to be required in some groups already in this thread, which I also heard rumors about awhile back from other players.

No, that would be stupid, but none of what you just said is actual proof of your claims, it's just more claims.

In your original over reaction, you claimed it is becoming common to request RL information when joining a corp.

If it is common, then post verifiable examples of that.

Otherwise, you are just talking BS and haven't actually verified what you are claiming; which leads me back to the original statement that your post was the biggest over reaction of the year so far.

Proof is in the evidence. Where's the evidence of this common practice?

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Kieron VonDeux
#53 - 2016-05-08 06:35:54 UTC
I guess its a matter of being either proactive or reactionary.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#54 - 2016-05-08 06:41:24 UTC
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
I guess its a matter of being either proactive or reactionary.

Not at all.

It's simply a matter of you can actually backup your claim that it is common to request RL information when joining a Corp with evidence, or you can't.

Since you are claiming that it is a common thing, then it should be easy to actually support with verifiable evidence.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Kieron VonDeux
#55 - 2016-05-08 06:53:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Kieron VonDeux
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
I guess its a matter of being either proactive or reactionary.

Not at all.

It's simply a matter of you can actually backup your claim that it is common to request RL information when joining a Corp with evidence, or you can't.

Since you are claiming that it is a common thing, then it should be easy to actually support with verifiable evidence.



Corps requiring Full APIs is starting to become common which isn't too big a deal outside of the game, but is highly annoying inside the game and could certainly lead to the below becoming more common.

Corps requiring personal information is not yet common but appears to be picking up speed and could become more common in the near future, which isn't acceptable due to the potential risks involved.

We should address this as a community proactively before we need to react to it after it has become a significant issue.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#56 - 2016-05-08 09:09:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
Corps requiring personal information is not yet common but appears to be picking up speed and could become more common in the near future, which isn't acceptable due to the potential risks involved.

So it's not common now, just picking up speed.

So then assuming now that it isn't common, but is picking up speed, it should still be possible to show some specific examples. Actual evidence of your claim.

If the slope is positive, then show it.

Where is the actual evidence that an increasing number of Corps are requesting RL information as part of recruiting?

No need to beat around the bush with more or changed claims. Just point to the evidence that this is true.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
#57 - 2016-05-08 09:15:44 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
Corps requiring personal information is not yet common but appears to be picking up speed and could become more common in the near future, which isn't acceptable due to the potential risks involved.

So it's not common now, just picking up speed.

So then assuming now that it isn't common, but is picking up speed, it should still be possible to show some specific examples. Actual evidence of your claim.

If the slope is positive, then show it.

Where is the actual evidence that an increasing number of Corps are requesting RL information as part of recruiting?

No need to beat around the bush with more or changed claims. Just point to the evidence that this is true.


I too would like to see evidence of RL information being "required" , unless you are referring to login times (timezones) and language.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#58 - 2016-05-08 10:46:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
Now Full API Keys are becoming the norm with details about RL information becoming more common place.


Soon, it may be expected that you have to provide RL information to be even considered for many groups and the "uneducated" or careless will have little issue.

Once RL information starts to be farmed and traded, like full API information is now with many, the true issues start to come up.

The real problem with your unsubstantiated claims, especially as in your original post you blaimed bad CCP's bad design for is, is that the Terms of Service, which form part of the EULA, prohibit exactly what you are saying.

Clause 19 of the TOS:


  • You may not communicate, post or publicize any subscriber’s personal information within the EVE Online game world or website.


That means, under the TOS, no one can ask you for your own details as part of Corp recruitment, because you can't give them to them and even if someone did pass on their personal information, the person they passed it to would not be able to do anything further with it, without breaking the TOS.

So, if as you say it is becoming common to ask for RL information, then put the evidence here in the thread of who is doing that.

Then it can be dealt with and those Corporation's activities officially reported, because that sort of thing should never be on.

You keep making claims, but you so far have not provided any evidence; which just takes me back to the original response, that your post was the biggest over reaction of the year so far.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Gealbhan
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#59 - 2016-05-08 10:58:41 UTC
That's why I'm in an NPC corp. I got tired of dealing with intrusive player corps and their junk. Arrow
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#60 - 2016-05-08 11:01:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme Sake
To SPAI on you of course.

By now, no serious spy will make mistakes that would reveal them, as being a spai, through the api check.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato