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Why does a corp want my api?

Author
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#61 - 2016-05-08 11:04:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Shayla Etherodyne
Just for the record, I generally don't follow that kind of drama, but:
- we had at least 1 attempt to get people fired from their RL work for in game/forum events and a lot of drama following that, with RL information of different parties being shared on the forum (BOB and Kugutsumen)
- hacking of servers (again Kugutsumen for several groups)
- inciting people to suicide.
I am sure I have missed several well know events.

So sharing personal data with a shifting pool of directors and security experts in a alliance isn't exactly a bright thing to do.

Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
That means, under the TOS, no one can ask you for your own details as part of Corp recruitment, because you can't give them to them and even if someone did pass on their personal information, the person they passed it to would not be able to do anything further with it, without breaking the TOS.


Sure,CCP is covered, but try doing some legal action against someone living on the other side of the planet on that.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#62 - 2016-05-08 11:13:40 UTC
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Sure,CCP is covered, but try doing some legal action against someone living on the other side of the planet on that.

It's not about taking legal action on the other side of the planet.

The claim has been made that it's an increasing trend to ask people for their RL information as part of Corp recruitment.

So far, 0 evidence of that. So put the evidence if you agree with that claim.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Kieron VonDeux
#63 - 2016-05-09 06:21:22 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:

So far, 0 evidence of that. So put the evidence if you agree with that claim.


-It has been mentioned in this thread, by others than me.
-It has been mentioned in other threads.
-It has been talked about on my main's Comms. (No I never post with my main in all 11 yrs I've played)


No, I will not be your little search agent,
and no I will not allow you to come on my comms to be personally informed.


The fact that you have not personally heard about it does not make it a non issue until you personally are informed. It is an issue that is only starting to surface so until it becomes more common you may only hear whispers about it.

New player vetting is a slippery slope and since some are now looking to cross that line of asking for out of game personal information,

CCP should reduce the need for them to do this by changing game design to reduce the effectiveness of spies.

We should also make sure we educate our fellow players who may not be privacy aware in the internet age or who are careless about that of the true risks involved.





Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#64 - 2016-05-09 07:16:41 UTC
It's been talked about on reddit, and obviously reddit has never ever talked about anything that wasn't completely true, right?

Basically you've got a bunch of randoms making up claims recently with no basis in reality and people like Kieron eating them up because they want them to be true.

On the topic though API keys are used to make sure that if you do have spies those spies have to put in a little bit of effort to keep their characters separate. If you don't want to give out your API key then don't, but remember that means that whatever corps you are joining don't have such checks, so either you'll find it nearly impossible to move up through the ranks, or you're at an increased risk of having people work up through the corp only to walk off with corp assets.

And remember it's just a game and game info you are giving out, no need to go all postal about handing out your characters info.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#65 - 2016-05-09 07:24:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:

So far, 0 evidence of that. So put the evidence if you agree with that claim.


-It has been mentioned in this thread, by others than me.
-It has been mentioned in other threads.
-It has been talked about on my main's Comms. (No I never post with my main in all 11 yrs I've played)


No, I will not be your little search agent,
and no I will not allow you to come on my comms to be personally informed.


The fact that you have not personally heard about it does not make it a non issue until you personally are informed. It is an issue that is only starting to surface so until it becomes more common you may only hear whispers about it.

New player vetting is a slippery slope and since some are now looking to cross that line of asking for out of game personal information,

CCP should reduce the need for them to do this by changing game design to reduce the effectiveness of spies.

We should also make sure we educate our fellow players who may not be privacy aware in the internet age or who are careless about that of the true risks involved.

I love this form of argument, which is basically:

"I'm going to make a wild claim and then not provide any evidence, but when people ask for evidence I'll claim it's their fault for not knowing."

So far, what we can confirm is that you've changed position from:

1. It's common that corps are asking for RL information during recruiting, to
2. It's an increasing trend, to
3. It's not common, but you'll here whispers of it.

All this rubbish and shifting simply shows that you really can't provide any evidence of this becoming a common thing at all, which just takes us back to the original conclusion that you are over reacting.

You haven't even verified what you've claimed, yet were so clear that it's CCPs fault, even though what you are saying is specifically not allowed under the TOS.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2016-05-09 07:48:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Geronimo McVain
Is it required to permanently give the full Api? I have no problem giving someone my full api but I have a big problem wich the idea of permanent monitoring. So what happens if I give out my API and delete it after joining? If they suspect me they can have my full api again but I really don't like the idea that someone is snooping through my datas without my knowledge. I will bet that some corps will track the alts of each member and will not erase the data when the member leaves.

btw: RL data in a game is a no-go! So if a corp need this data I need another corp. This is a game and I don't see any reason to give this data to someone because you don't even know if you will be acceptetd.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#67 - 2016-05-09 08:06:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Is it required to permanently give the full Api? I have no problem giving someone my full api but I have a big problem wich the idea of permanent monitoring. So what happens if I give out my API and delete it after joining? If they suspect me they can have my full api again but I really don't like the idea that someone is snooping through my datas without my knowledge. I will bet that some corps will track the alts of each member and will not erase the data when the member leaves.

Some do require a non-expiring full account API, yes.

Generally, that applies to some of the bigger, more powerful groups that really do have a reason to be suspicious of spies.

Additionally, many of the more well organised Alliances use the API as a way to control access to services that the Alliance provides.

For example, the API can help forum software to check your Corp, so that the moment you leave Corp, you no longer have access to the IT services that are provided. That means someone doesn't have to manually do it, and is an efficient use of technology to take care of those things automatically.

In that case, a non-expiring full API is needed so you don't end up cut off from services that you want to use.

So depends on the Alliance and the risks that they face from actions in the metagame.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2016-05-09 08:23:31 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:

Additionally, many of the more well organised Alliances use the API as a way to control access to services that the Alliance provides.

For example, the API can help forum software to check your Corp, so that the moment you leave Corp, you no longer have access to the IT services that are provided. That means someone doesn't have to manually do it, and is an efficient use of technology to take care of those things automatically.

In that case, a non=expiring full API is needed so you don't end up cut off from services that you want to use.

Thanks for the info.
But to have the access to the corp IT you don't need the full api because you only need the corp info. Call me a German paranoid but I really dislike the idea that someone can scan all my datas for fun without asking me. CCP is bound by legal restrictions but corps are not.
Now I know what questions to ask and how to handle the answers.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#69 - 2016-05-09 08:31:49 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Thanks for the info.
But to have the access to the corp IT you don't need the full api because you only need the corp info. Call me a German paranoid but I really dislike the idea that someone can scan all my datas for fun without asking me. CCP is bound by legal restrictions but corps are not.
Now I know what questions to ask and how to handle the answers.

Yeah that's also true.

A non-expiring limited API is also used by some Alliances. Just depends on the individual alliance.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2016-05-09 08:54:18 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:


A non-expiring limited API is also used by some Alliances. Just depends on the individual alliance.
That sounds reasonable to limit the IT-administration.
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#71 - 2016-05-09 09:01:52 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
It's been talked about on reddit, and blablablablabla


Oh shaddup for once! Roll
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#72 - 2016-05-09 09:25:20 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
But to have the access to the corp IT you don't need the full api because you only need the corp info. Call me a German paranoid but I really dislike the idea that someone can scan all my datas for fun without asking me. CCP is bound by legal restrictions but corps are not.
Now I know what questions to ask and how to handle the answers.
What data is it you are so afraid to have people see? It's a game bro, nothing on there should be information you care about protecting from the guys you fly with. And at the end of the day, it's generally to reduce the likelihood of spies and awoxers by making sure they'd have to roll a fresh unaffiliated character to do so or wait long enough for their API to be clear, so having tighter recruitment policies directly benefits the corp members.

Pak Narhoo wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
It's been talked about on reddit, and blablablablabla
Oh shaddup for once! Roll
Never. Face reality for once.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Kieron VonDeux
#73 - 2016-05-09 11:50:00 UTC
Pak Narhoo wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
It's been talked about on reddit, and blablablablabla


Oh shaddup for once! Roll



Yeah, Lucas is kind of like a bad rash.
He does make a good argument at times, but seems to want to overwhelm you more with posts than anything else.

He is good and what he intends to do.
Malcaz
Corostatos
#74 - 2016-05-09 13:10:21 UTC
Because people take eve way too seriously.
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2016-05-09 13:44:42 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
What data is it you are so afraid to have people see? It's a game bro, nothing on there should be information you care about protecting from the guys you fly with. And at the end of the day, it's generally to reduce the likelihood of spies and awoxers by making sure they'd have to roll a fresh unaffiliated character to do so or wait long enough for their API to be clear, so having tighter recruitment policies directly benefits the corp members..

That's the answer every totalitarian Regime in history gave: "It's for the greater good and you have nothing to fear if you stick strictly with us." If you really want to catch awoxers you need to constantly monitor the data of all accounts. If you can really do this you should ask the NSA for a job.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#76 - 2016-05-09 14:08:44 UTC
CCP shouldnt have created things like API for querying private information, now everyone and his mother asks you for it in order to join.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#77 - 2016-05-09 14:11:29 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
That's the answer every totalitarian Regime in history gave: "It's for the greater good and you have nothing to fear if you stick strictly with us." If you really want to catch awoxers you need to constantly monitor the data of all accounts. If you can really do this you should ask the NSA for a job.
Sure. Except of course it's a video game, so comparing a corporation knowing what journal transactions and assets it's members have in the game to the NSA illegally monitoring everyone is pants on head ********. If you really are worried about someone else seeing your game activities, you should really check how seriously you are taking the game.

At the end of the day, if you don't want to give out your API, you don't have to, but expect to either remain on the bottom rung of the corp like a horde member for the foreseeable future or expect to get bitten in the ass when someone else who didn't have to pass an API checks robs your corp blind.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#78 - 2016-05-09 14:16:55 UTC
You're welcome to not join corps that require you to submit an API, or only do one time API checks and don't care if they expire. The consequence is exclusion from groups that do, and if a group wants to exclude people based on that then that's their prerogative.

You have absolutely zero right to be outraged that player organizations have arbitrary requirements.

My corp doesn't generally use API checks because they're not actually very helpful to us and we have exactly zero spy trouble, but otherwise has incredibly restricted recruitment
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Fraternity.
#79 - 2016-05-09 14:48:57 UTC
They can see EVERYTHING you do, from assets, mails you have sent, you transactions everything.

Corps that worry about spies mainly ask for this, so they can check if you have been fraternising with the enemy, if you sent dodgy emails,or sold supers to the enemy all that type of stuff.

People are so paranoid now, that you may be a spie and infiltrate them.

You will be asked for this all the time from those type of corps, so if you want to be constantly spied on yourself by your corp (and you will be) then go ahead. However having been in those type of alliances you end up not enjoying the game because you cant even talk to people without people thinking your up to something. Eve is very paranoid that way. and i think this type of metagaming really spoils the game. personally i wish they would remove the whole public api thing

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit

Kieron VonDeux
#80 - 2016-05-09 14:57:24 UTC
tiberiusric wrote:
personally i wish they would remove the whole public api thing



Only if they made spies far less effective by requiring corp set (adjustable) number of members to agree on something like kicking Corps from Alliance, off lining major structures and taking funds out of certain accounts plus many other ideas.

Other wise you would be just pushing Corps toward asking for RL information even more.