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It seems like many guys here didn't understand the mechanics in an incursion site.

There is no need of logis at all if you run a full fleet of carrirers.
Just give everybody a bit of a local tank and you're fine. The NPC's switch the target ages before you die with the massive EHP of capital ships. The numbers of EHP after the citadel release is another thing to consider but even if they get nerfed it's not mentionable.
A full TCRC has around 20k DPS. With a 5k DPS tank you live long enough until the targets are switching. After that you are repping up again, done.

If the current incursion mechanics are used you yolo in with carriers and you can run sites times that are currently only possible within a contest.
With the incoming capital MWD's even the TPPH isn't a real problem.
Dreads are not worth fielding becasue any site will end before one siege cycle will end.

The only disadvantage will be the warp speed.
considering the bigger fleets in low/ nullsec and the higher payout you'll earn alot of money.



so i think using capitals with the current mechanics will break the system more or less. if there are special sites for capitals it woould be more intersting because current sansha rats can't harm a well fitted carrier in a fleet.

Today an incursion ships in highsec costs 3 to 4b. an insured carrier could do it better with less money, seems a little bit broken then if the can fly the same sites. and as stated it's insured. if you loose it, take the next one ;-)




What? your thoughts are to genius to publish them here? oh please bring your holy ingeniousness to us, we will pray for you every day!

read again please. i mentioned LOCAL tank, not remote reps.

EFT says to me that an Archon currently has 80k capacitor. an outuni neut caps out around 3k and has a long cycle. what do 40 or more carries with some outunis? they die horribly. so even if the outuni(s) get out more than one cycle it's not a big deal for the cap of a carrier.

a vindicator can do 1.4 to 1.5k m/s. It has to travel nearly 100 km to shoot the tower in a TCRC. As a carrier you warp in and get the fighters on the tower. The fighters are faster than a vindicator and they have more DPS. nothing to add here.

In a TPPH the carriers are slower, yes but you can kill everything while traveling to the next gate. Currently incursion Battleships reach the gate long before the spawn is dead.

In a NRF it's the same loek the TCRC warp in and let the fighters move.

If you fly currently in a battleship the incursions can harm you of course. if you get full stage in some sites and you forget to broadcast for 5 seconds it will be very tough to save you. in some communities you are dead (no names here). in a carrier you problably have enough ehp to survive until the aggro is switching even without repping.

Please don't misquote what I say. That was a reply to myself to the question "Will capital ships make a huge impact on how incursions are being ran?" Tactics and strategy is what I do, this place is for feedback not for s*** posting. I gave an overall effect on such tactics.


With any experience in incursions with the new mechanics to carriers you'll realize how terrible this would be.


Again this is incorrect. Dreads core damage come from being in siege which for you information that would disallow remote assistance. So getting shield and cap would solely come from that pilot, with the nerf coming with the refitting during combat there is no refitting to help the pilot unscrew his/her mistake. As per my last post I explained high threat targets already on field that could do some very serious damage to a triage / siege pilot.

There are other obvious flaws that I wish to not make them as obvious as they are now.

I recommend that you try some private theory crafting to form your own informed feedback so it's unbiased.

The end result will just be big groups locking down low sec incursions for them to farm to the exculsion of every one else. ie the same thing that happens to lvl 5 missions.

In null it would just mean "bonus money" every few months as an incursion lands in your area. Since enemies can't cyno in, you will be super safe while you stuff the game with more isk it doesn't need.

Incursions would have to be totally reworked (perhaps with wormhole style cap escalations) to make this balanced. Just allowing capitals in as they are now will do nothing but screw the small brave low sec incursion VG running groups and hand a whole lot of wealth to groups that already have lots of caps and super caps.

Bad idea.

That is too much work for CCP. CCP is not interested in doing work these days when it comes to that in order to create more activity. They want easy, quick things that do not require a lot of effort.

my thought would be.

cap NPC's taking on player cap's as you would need to up scale the hardness level and instead of a mother ship it would be a titan.

no cyno's in lowsec they still need to use the gate but in 0.0 they can cyno in though if they try to cyno out the npc's focus their fire on the cyno

and make sure the cap fleet still needs logi (what ever the cap version is) and if logi dies they face the same risk of losing their fleet like we do with non cap fleets.

Don't own a capital, but i do fly incursions pretty much all day every day and I've been an FC for WTM for over 2 years, and now am a T badge for TVP.

I think it's a great idea. It can be balanced, just like anything in the game. I think it would open up a lot of options.

Well we had drifter incursions burning throne worlds, but no one cared to do them.
Higsec incursion runners don't like the risk

The main thread of the drifter incursions is the heavy incoming alpha damage imo - so with the hitpoints of a capital you should be doing pretty fine compared to the highsec fleet with their battleships - so you only need to ensure that it would be worth it to run the sites with capitals and you'll might get enough pilots willing to risk their capital against drifters

I misunderstood your post. Perhaps this will cover it a bit better:

The tank doesn't really matters. Most incursion groups don't lose BSs, because they've min-maxed, and found the minimum tank required to survive. Even the imperium incursion group has only lost a handful of battleships over our lifetime in sites. If an incrsion group brings BS or caps, their risk of losing a ship to the rats is still about the same. Caps have a larger margin for error, beacuse their buffer is larger, but a higher cost if you do screw up. I'm sure you can come up with several different ways to tank the rats, and they'll all work quite well. But they will all be in the same, which is basically 0 chance of losing a ship to rats.

I agree that the Otunis won't be a massive risk, but they aren't currently a huge risk anyhow. You primary the otunis, and feed cap to the guy who has agro. The risk of stepping out where hostiles can shoot you is much greater then the lower risk from the Otunis.

Your argument about the fighters travel time I think is really important. What are their flight times like, post-patch? assuming it's 3k/sec:
For VGs: The fighters will have to cover ~50km for most waves, which is 12 seconds before it even applies damage, each wave. So that's about 45 extra seconds of travel time, before damage is applied. That's a very, very long time in VGs, where you're often in site less then 200secs.
For HQ TPPHs: Learn to fly TPPHs with a better group. If you're matching the good hisec times, all the rats should be down before you get to the gate. Travel speed will still be your bottleneck. If you're not matching the good hisec site times, then this isn't a problem.
For HQ NRFs: The fighters will have to travel ~20s during each wave, before it applies damage, and there are still a fair number of rats. They will have to bounce between the different rats that love to spread out. I think there will be some site speed improvement, but I don't think you'll be able to do it twice as fast or anything dumb like that.
For HQ TCRCs: they are already doable in 6 minutes in hisec. The warp times and align times will be big bottlenecks, and the fighters still have to travel 70km to the tower, you still have to have someone burn over to the mtac factory and mtac. You still have to have logi in the right position to rep the mtac'er, and so the fleet can't be right on top of the gate. I think those elements will prevent the site from being done much faster then they are now.

Right now there's almost no risk from flying incursions in hisec in BS, heck... even with terrible goons, I think we've only lost a handful of battleships in sites to rats. (We lose them far more often to the gate rats then anything else). Once you get a good group going, the logis can follow lasers and will rep people that forget to broadcast. The baddie normally get chewed out for doing so, and needs some armor reps, but they survive. Most incursion BS have about half their tank in shield, and half in armor. You get reps before you go into armor nearly every time.