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[December] Module Tiericide - Neutralizers and Nosferatu

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Somethingski
Bunnyhop and Bears
#61 - 2015-11-05 16:56:57 UTC
Could you clarify the effect of Nos and Neut on NPC ships the rumor has always been that they have a chance on interupting a repair cycle but we never had an official word on it and do i get cap from a Nos when i use it on an NPC it seemed that i always got cap back but since a few weeks it seems no cap gets returned.
Callduron
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#62 - 2015-11-05 17:05:11 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:

Changes
[list]
  • Added Effectiveness Falloff
  • This works by reducing the effectivness of the module when in falloff. Formula is the same as gun falloff formula
    • at 100% Optimal + 0% Falloff = 100% Effectivness (approx figures only)
    at 100% Optimal + 100% Falloff = 50% Effectivness (approx figures only)
    at 100% Optimal + 200% Falloff = 6% Effectivness (approx figures only)


    The last one is a typo, isn't it? Should =0% Effectiveness. Or is Falloff not linear?

    I write http://stabbedup.blogspot.co.uk/

    I post on reddit as /u/callduron.
    Masao Kurata
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #63 - 2015-11-05 17:32:03 UTC
    Wow don't you think you've gone a bit overboard with the deadspace stats? Those are officer level ranges. Deadspace modules aren't exactly rare drops, these will be used very widely.
    DeadDuck
    The Legion of Spoon
    Curatores Veritatis Alliance
    #64 - 2015-11-05 17:32:42 UTC  |  Edited by: DeadDuck
    Callduron wrote:
    The last one is a typo, isn't it? Should =0% Effectiveness. Or is Falloff not linear?


    Probably correct tbh. Only at 201% or higher will be 0%

    For a tec2 Med Neut you will neut at max capacity within 10km. Between 10Km and 15Km at 50% capacity and between 15K-20Km only 6%
    Chessur
    Full Broadside
    Deepwater Hooligans
    #65 - 2015-11-05 17:46:42 UTC
    wrong thread.
    Cyrek Ohaya
    Blazing Sun Group
    #66 - 2015-11-05 17:52:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyrek Ohaya
    With the falloff addition to these modules, just like turrets work in the same manner, they will be able to fire from any range that their targeting range allows a ship albeit to the point when it becomes useless such as for example 100% optimal + 300% fallof and beyond. The module, a small neutralizer for example will be kept worthlessly attempting to drain a target orbiting at 20km.

    My question is do you seriously intend for your players to now fully pay attention to neutralizers not draining because of range issues, much like Microwarpdrives requiring de-activation because of high activation costs?
    A player can't have them activated for long or else their capacitor will run dry, and this change makes it look like a new important module besides MWDs players will need to look after in the middle of intense Player versus Player action.
    Masao Kurata
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #67 - 2015-11-05 18:04:47 UTC
    Other than the craaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazy out of whack deadspace stats (they are going to be completely oppressive with these stats), I'm liking this... but one point needs clarification: you say that the "effectiveness" will decrease in falloff in accordance with the turret miss frequency. Please clarify whether this is a chance of failure or whether they will consistently work but drain less GJ.
    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #68 - 2015-11-05 18:13:43 UTC
    it would be great if the module could tell you what you're getting at any time and how far into your falloff you are.

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
    FT Diomedes
    The Graduates
    #69 - 2015-11-05 18:30:20 UTC
    imnotangry wrote:
    Is there any chance of buffing the officer versions of these mods a little more than their deadspace counterparts to better reflect the postion in the whole meta system? like reduced fitting requirements? or more ewar power? but the other changes are awesome tbh


    Dead space and officer usually have the same stats, at least for hardeners.

    CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

    Syri Taneka
    NOVA-CAINE
    #70 - 2015-11-05 18:51:44 UTC
    M3phistopheles wrote:
    I'm not a fan of the meta names;

    Quote:
    Heavy Gremlin Compact Energy Neutralizer


    Quote:
    Heavy Infectious Scoped Energy Neutralizer


    They seem very WoW to me. I would suggest changing them to;

    Heavy Gremlin Compact Energy Neutralizer -> Heavy Compact Energy Neutralizer

    Heavy Infectious Scoped Energy Neutralizer -> Heavy Ranged Energy Neutralizer

    These simpler names make their function easier to understand. You do not need the sick nasty descriptive word in the module name.


    Dude... they're already there on the existing modules.

    Heavy Rudimentary Energy Destabilizer I
    Heavy 'Gremlin' Power Core Disruptor I
    500W Infectious Power System Malfunction
    Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
    Syri Taneka
    NOVA-CAINE
    #71 - 2015-11-05 19:01:06 UTC
    So, to clarify:

    A Sentinel with t2 neuts is going from 31,500m absolute neut range, with 108 cap drain/6/mod, to 25,000m optimal (full) drain of 110/6/mod, with 32,500m to first falloff and 40,000m to second falloff, losing neut effectiveness with distance past 25,000m?

    I can accept this.
    Styphon the Black
    Forced Euthanasia
    #72 - 2015-11-05 19:11:50 UTC
    Off topic - Where is the discussion about adding a falloff for remote assistance modules? Because I want to weigh in on how that is a terrible idea. I know it was announced at the same time adding a falloff to neuts.


    BTW - What about POS Weapon System Neuts will these also have a falloff added or remain unchanged?
    Roddex
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #73 - 2015-11-05 19:16:14 UTC
    When you state the effectiveness at range is that a reduction in the capacitor removed or a chance of the cycle not removing any capacitor? I.E. is it hit/miss or scaled effect?
    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #74 - 2015-11-05 19:17:13 UTC
    Syri Taneka wrote:
    So, to clarify:

    A Sentinel with t2 neuts is going from 31,500m absolute neut range, with 108 cap drain/6/mod, to 25,000m optimal (full) drain of 110/6/mod, with 32,500m to first falloff and 40,000m to second falloff, losing neut effectiveness with distance past 25,000m?

    I can accept this.


    i think its OP the range bonus on sentinels

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
    Bienator II
    madmen of the skies
    #75 - 2015-11-05 19:18:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
    will make flying a sentinel easier after the change. You don't have to worry about cycling your neuts if you drop out of range you just keep them running and kite around the blob.

    scram kiting ships with neuts will be tough now however.


    but what i will dislike most is that you will see that neut ewar icon all the time on your ship. constantly. you won't know however if you actually get neuted with any noteworthy amount.

    edit:
    you will see tristans neuting you from 50k hiding the fact that something else is actually neuting you
    you will see a curse neuting you from 88k and you won#t know if its a heavy neut curse or not
    ...

    edit2:
    i am already afraid of the web rebalance, since it would basically mean that as soon a ship can lock you you are webbed and neuted.

    how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
    Somethingski
    Bunnyhop and Bears
    #76 - 2015-11-05 19:18:46 UTC
    Small question do they stop working if you get past optimal+falloff or will they still cycle when a ship is out of range can i use a small neut on a ship thats 100km away and basicly cap myself out?
    Chainsaw Plankton
    FaDoyToy
    #77 - 2015-11-05 19:22:55 UTC
    CCP Larrikin wrote:

    • Added Effectiveness Falloff
    • This works by reducing the effectivness of the module when in falloff. Formula is the same as gun falloff formula
      • at 100% Optimal + 0% Falloff = 100% Effectivness (approx figures only)
      at 100% Optimal + 100% Falloff = 50% Effectivness (approx figures only)
      at 100% Optimal + 200% Falloff = 6% Effectivness (approx figures only)


    is this will work at those percentages, or will apply at those percentages?

    in other words at 100% optimal + 100% falloff will it have a 50% chance to hit, or will it hit for 50% of transfer amount?

    @ChainsawPlankto on twitter
    Chainsaw Plankton
    FaDoyToy
    #78 - 2015-11-05 19:26:12 UTC
    FT Diomedes wrote:
    imnotangry wrote:
    Is there any chance of buffing the officer versions of these mods a little more than their deadspace counterparts to better reflect the postion in the whole meta system? like reduced fitting requirements? or more ewar power? but the other changes are awesome tbh


    Dead space and officer usually have the same stats, at least for hardeners.

    overall that has been true for many item groups, but they seem to be giving officer some special extra boosts here and there, like on prop mods getting a 60% heat bonus compared to the 50% heat bonus on all other groups of prop mods.

    @ChainsawPlankto on twitter
    Feodor Romanov
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #79 - 2015-11-05 19:46:50 UTC
    This changes is a nerf for neuts specialized ships. For example my Armageddon with t2 neut have optimal range 37,8 km. After the patch it will be 30km+12,5km. Neuts at falloff range will neut me more then my target! More then half of second faloff range will be useless even for the ships with neuts strength bonuses. All this falloff is usefull only when you have Cap Booster and your target has not.
    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #80 - 2015-11-05 19:59:14 UTC
    Feodor Romanov wrote:
    This changes is a nerf for neuts specialized ships. For example my Armageddon with t2 neut have optimal range 37,8 km. After the patch it will be 30km+12,5km. Neuts at falloff range will neut me more then my target! More then half of second faloff range will be useless even for the ships with neuts strength bonuses. All this falloff is usefull only when you have Cap Booster and your target has not.


    30km op 15km falloff you mean

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using