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Dev Blog: Scanning and Probing Changes in Parallax

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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2015-11-04 22:32:08 UTC
beakerax wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Maybe I was too impatient while testing ... however, in the current interface there is no delay, the update is instant, and that's the point.

The delay between touching a slider and the result+animation varies quite a bit for me. Sometimes it's instant, but two seconds is more typical. Kind of disturbing.

Frankly I wish there were a way to turn off the auto-update entirely.

Not at my PC, but this sounds like the delay corresponds to the normal forced pause of 3s between dscans. This pause does not apply in the current interface to the sliders, which effectively act as a filter on the current (and future) result, not triggering a new dscan.

I'm my own NPC alt.
beakerax
Pator Tech School
#82 - 2015-11-04 22:49:08 UTC  |  Edited by: beakerax
Nah, I was leaving 10+ seconds between scans while testing this.

edit: nvm, I see what you're saying now. I'm pretty sure the sliders on the old interface do trigger a scan, though.
Canon Makanen
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#83 - 2015-11-04 22:59:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Canon Makanen
There are a few things that make my want to use the old probe UI rather than the new one:

1) Really lag, the old probe window and solar map is much smoother.

2) it is hard to drag the probe and move it, the new prober UI this will make me miss my target even just a few second delay.

3) Hard to identify the results i just have scanned and dev has already known that, I think it will be fixed soon though

4) In full screen mode the modules disappear, which will also be fixed soon

5) the "Scan result" window is not as clear as the old one, just make the letters larger maybe



i) for the new map, still, hard to see which one is station and moon, please just make different color for the station and the directional scan help line

the shortcuts are sweet, and make this UI smooth to use.
Blacktide Bakersmith
Caliburn Ghast
#84 - 2015-11-04 23:40:47 UTC
Changing my tune.

After playing with the new scanning for a day, and figuring out how to turn off most of the annoying tooltips, especially the probes that prevented me from being able to easily move the probe formation around, I am now liking the new scanning setup. The ease of use is better, and the shortcuts help.

There is definitely room for improvement though. Beginning with making the D-scan perimeter display less intrusive, or a different color so it doesn't distract from my probing.

And once again, I've got to say, that the destroy active probes button needs to be removed or relocated. Its in a very bad place. I use the button to activate the map all the time, and having it right next to a commonly used button seems like you're asking for trouble. Do we really need that button?
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#85 - 2015-11-04 23:43:27 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Desiderya wrote:
The checkbox is really missing.
Also, mostly out of curiosity as this is really annoying: Why have you decided to move the Scan button, especially as everything else is mostly untouched from the placement? ;)


Checkbox as in "Active Overview Setting" D-scan checkbox?

I don't know the "why", but we tried to counteract any inconvenience by adding in the scanning hotkey for both windows.


Yeah, the check/uncheck 'use active overview settings'. Scanning the inside of a complex for wrecks/drones was done smoothly over that with one click - now it requires more. That aside I like the dropdown selection to filter.

Fair point about the scanning hotkey. I must admit I didn't know about it as I haven't read the devblog and was just getting to this feature as from what I saw in the client. Moving it for the sake of it felt a bit weird - but knowing this a hotkey is the much smoother way to use it anyways.

Now, what about (optionally) highlighting things that appear new on scan results since the last scan ? ;)

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#86 - 2015-11-04 23:51:51 UTC
Styphon the Black wrote:
I would like to see an option to use the new DScan but opt out of the new Probe Scanner Interface.


While I agree with everything Styphon said, I agree with the quoted part the most.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#87 - 2015-11-04 23:55:32 UTC
Blacktide Bakersmith wrote:


And once again, I've got to say, that the destroy active probes button needs to be removed or relocated. Its in a very bad place. I use the button to activate the map all the time, and having it right next to a commonly used button seems like you're asking for trouble. Do we really need that button?


I do not understand why I would ever want to destroy my active probes...

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Sasha Sen
Hull Zero Two
#88 - 2015-11-05 00:38:15 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
....

I hope these changes show you effectively that we are committed to iteration and we still want your constructive, well explained feedback - so let's have it! Big smile

Hi Goliath. I think you have covered most of it there already. I would also suggest tidying up the icons in general on the solar system map, such as for asteroid belts, planets, etc.

Also please remove those huge red arrows when resizing probes as they look out of place.

Finally you really need to watch these excellent videos which illustrate the main issues far better than I am able to put in words.

Shade Millith wrote:
Click and drag on the blue sphere to resize probes is not working properly, and often flat out doesn't.
Old System - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkPohxMoYTI
New System - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQHtKE95VeE


These are three BIG issues I ran into while running prober for a gang, and caused me to take a lot longer to get probes on target than the previous probe system.

Of smaller note, it's much harder to see Red results in space, with the icon being silly small and dark. Especially amongst the red sphere of D-Scan.


I had an issue with selecting sphere to resize as well but then I realized they have a shortcut key to change distance range and it is a lot better
Suburban Me
Fowl Hill Shipyards
#89 - 2015-11-05 01:19:33 UTC
Possibly mentioned already, but as of today's patch, the solar system map is pretty much empty whenever tactical overlay is enabled.
SGNL
Doomheim
#90 - 2015-11-05 01:50:49 UTC
Forgive me if this has already been asked. What is the point of the transparent red orb in the new scanner module, is it for point of view or something? Can it be disabled? It's very intrusive.
Sasha Sen
Hull Zero Two
#91 - 2015-11-05 01:58:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Sasha Sen
SGNL wrote:
Forgive me if this has already been asked. What is the point of the transparent red orb in the new scanner module, is it for point of view or something? Can it be disabled? It's very intrusive.


Are you referring to the D-scan sphere maybe? If you close your d-scan window it goes away, I just set my range to minimum while I probe scan.

edit: If the color of d-scan sphere would be a matte orange, that would work nice for me personally (in case CCP is looking for ideas)
Sasha Sen
Hull Zero Two
#92 - 2015-11-05 02:02:00 UTC
The new scan map is growing on me fast CCP.

The first attempts with the beta map had me worried for a while, I feel good about this direction.
Suburban Me
Fowl Hill Shipyards
#93 - 2015-11-05 02:57:13 UTC
Sasha Sen wrote:
The new scan map is growing on me fast CCP.

The first attempts with the beta map had me worried for a while, I feel good about this direction.


+1 - despite some initial issues, I'm also liking the new interface a lot, very responsive and easy to use, and it's really great that you can now scan in a window and still operate modules, navigate in space and so forth :)
Soltys
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2015-11-05 03:02:37 UTC
As this is new thread, to summary what I posted in the other "obsolete" ones.


  • alt / ctrl / shift - these are treated as system-wide hotkeys. Even if EvE is in background, the probe map will diligently flash with cones / cubes / arrows whenever one of those keys is pressed. This is not a big deal - none the less it's distracting for fixed-windowed / windowed mode if probe map tends to be active and visible on one of the monitors
  • alt / ctrl / shift - special case of the above when we have EvE in the foreground and notably bigger issue (distracting !) at the same time - the probe map reacts to those keys regardless of what has focus in the game
  • needs 3-state toggle for probe setup scaling - so people can choose between sphere grabbing, cone or both; the third method (mousewheel) doesn't really conflict with any of those so it can stay enabled all the time
  • dscan cone/sphere - change its color to something not red, or allow choosing color
  • allow to dock probe interface in one of the corners of floating probe map window so it always stays on top of it

Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl & Kuvl
Yasuo Aldent
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2015-11-05 04:23:14 UTC
I'm not sure if this issue has been addressed yet but the new scanning window/system does not seem to work in the old map (sigs/anoms/scan spheres are not visible). The new windows look great and i'll give them a 5/5 when I can use them in the old map. (which btw guys, is the best map to scan in).

Might I make a suggestion: Keep the new map to have all the nice colors, icons, zoom-in/drill down features etc. but allow scanning to be exclusively performed on the old map and call it the "scanning map" or something. From what I've seen of the scanning on the new map, scanning on the old map is by far superior in speed and usability.
Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#96 - 2015-11-05 05:48:56 UTC
Thank you for the suggestions, I was able to scan a wormhole system with minimal deficiency from the old map with many of the items (belts, probes, etc) turned off. Couple comments on things to either reinforce what has been previously said or new observations:


  • With the new scanning interface set to "not track camera" for d-scan, you cannot do a targetted 5% dscan by moving your POV in the new map and hitting a scan. It always scans where you camera is pointed. Thus, you have to enable the "dscan tracks camera" option to achieve the desired effect. Turning this on renders map panning useless during probe scanning so I'm finding I have to repeatedly turn on and off this feature in order to get the desired dscan and probing functionality I need. My POV on the new map with the camera track off should mean that dscan follows my map POV, not my camera.
  • Signature dots need to be larger and brighter and circles need to be more pronounced (I believe you've noted this already) as well as the dscan sphere/cone being able to be hidden.
  • Bounding boxes on most non-probe items are too big. Probes should always take precedence over other items
  • The underline for probe percentage is too hard to tell if it is for the entry above or below. Go back to the fill method. I don't really see a reason to change this.
  • Please review wormhole sounds while the scanning window is full-screen. In the past, you would not hear wormhole activations unless you exited and re-entered the map while on grid with a wormhole. This shouldn't be necessary. Non-fullscreen seems to work fine.
  • Previously warped to wormholes no longer show the label "Unstable Wormhole" on the map without hovering. This was a key dscan targetting tool as those signatures would stand out from others making it easy to look for a decloaked ship on a wormhole. Combine this with the first point about dscan/camera behavior and finding a ship transiting a wormhole with the new map is significantly harder.
  • It would be nice if highlighting a scanned signature on the map should highlight it in the results window


Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
#97 - 2015-11-05 05:58:53 UTC
Gospadin wrote:
Steijn wrote:
the green underline needs to change back to a solid green bar over the text imo.


This. It's much harder for my eyes to process the thin lines versus the old thick background bars.


I'm supporting this as well. Its fine around the probes or whatever but when the result hits 100% green background is more...fulfilling

Oderint Dum Metuant
Alle Monte
Perkone
Caldari State
#98 - 2015-11-05 07:09:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Alle Monte
My major bug and the reason I haven't been able to use the new dscan is, for me, the ship hud needs to be visible when the map is in full screen - not hidden behind it. Hope you can fix that as I'm sticking with the old scanner until then. Also the additional red hatched sphere thing around my ship is uneccesary and clutters an already busy screen. Not sure what its purpose is but I don't need it.

edit - prefered the anoms with a green background. It's so obvious like that.
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#99 - 2015-11-05 09:10:45 UTC
Cara Forelli wrote:
Cross posting from the other thread and hopefully trimmed things you already addressed in this thread.

1) When the dscan is locked to the camera view you can't center your view on anything else but your ship. That's very painful. Generally I will find a target at a cluster of stuff, warp closer to get a better angle, and do another scan. With the old map I could double click on my warpin and start lining up my next scan while travelling. Now I have to wait until my ship has accelerated/warped/decelerated before I can even start lining up my next scan. Those seconds really matter when you're hunting a moving target.

2) A bug I think - when I use a hotkey (default F9) to bring up the solar system map (in fullscreen mode) the focus becomes locked on the map and won't let me click any other windows (to manipulate dscan sliders, interact with overview, etc.) Instead I just end up rotating the map view. This did not happen when using the map icon in the scan window, just with the hotkey (which I rebound and did not try using the default F9).

3) Like many people I keep my dscan and probe scan tabs in the same window. After the update the default seems to be the probe scan tab and it switches to that every session change which is very annoying because dscan is much more important.

4) This isn't new but it always bugged me that the AU distance in the probe scan window never properly updated for anomalies/signatures while warping around the system.

Very glad to hear the dscan toggle and fullscreen HUD are being added! Big smile


Thanks for transporting the feedback!

1. We've gotten a fair bit of feedback about this and it's been raised with the developer. I would think the likely approach will be to move the d-scan camera lock button outside of its menu to be more easily clickable on the fly.

2. That does sound like a bug! Not one I can replicate myself though, would you do me the service of supplying a bug report?

3. That's actually a legacy issue but people seem to be noticing it more/its frequency has increased in this update. I've requested a fix to the issue.

4. The scanner window refreshes in kind of a strange way. It doesn't live poll like the overview, it only polls when it's refreshed, such as by applying a filter, or scanning. Not sure if changing that is in scope for our team to be honest.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#100 - 2015-11-05 09:11:24 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Tooltips are really bothersome while scanning. You can mitigate this to some degree by bumping up the tooltip delay, except for two things:

1. That's a global setting, and having to change it to accommodate scanning alone isn't necessarily desirable.

2. If you have a marker turned on in the system map, it seems to completely ignore that setting anyway, and instantly pops a tooltip if there is more than one marker-on item in the stack. There are some markers I do not want to turn off, e.g., stations, and gates, and these are commonly right on top of each other in astronomical distances, so if my probes are near them, I end up having to navigate around some entirely unwanted tooltip popup to manage my probes.

This issue exists in the old map, as well, but the tooltips in that map are smaller and far less obtrusive.

Edit: Ah, looks like the bracket list delay does remedy this a bit. But, again, see point 1. Global setting, not necessarily desirable.

It would be nice if the probe cube were effectively "always on top" from a command interface perspective. There's pretty much never a time when I have wanted to click on something within the bounds of my probe cube(s) instead of the cube itself.


2 - Interesting. I'll do some more work on that tomorrow. As I say though, layering is something we want to take a 2nd pass at anyway - the tooltip delay is just a mitigation technique I am suggesting for now.


Please do. I raised this problem while it was still in testing and it seems You guys got little to focused on giving us options of filtering out things from map instead of fixing the problem that was non-existant in the old map


Not so much a lack of focus as it not being as easy a fix as it might seem.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath