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[New Structures] Condensed thread

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Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#121 - 2015-11-09 22:16:11 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Alright, to recap where we're at with this.


Tethering:


  • Going to be renamed tethering instead of mooring (mooring is confusing for various reasons).
  • As long as within some specific range of the structure and do not have weapons timer, you ship is tethered, meaning it cannot receive damage or be locked.
  • You can align and move within the specified tethering range and still be protected, as long as you do not go outside the maximum range.
  • You will not be able to tether to the structure if you are warp scrambled from a targeted module (HIC point, regular warp scrambling modules).
  • You will be able to tether to the structure if you are within an AoE warp scramble bubble (HIC AoE bubble, interdictor bubble). Of course you will not be able to warp away however. This is to prevent people from being caught their pants down when logging back on near a structure.
  • Tethering will be shown in the UI and visually in space.
  • We are investigating options to minimize bumping when you are tethered.
  • If your ship has access to dock into the structure it can use tethering. This doesn't mean you ship can dock however. For instance, you may have access to dock into a Medium Citadel as a Titan pilot, but you still are unable to dock. Your Titan will still be tethered when in range of the structure.
  • If you log off you do not stay in space near the structure, you log off as you normally would (which is why calling this feature "mooring" is confusing).
  • If you leave your active ship the tether will not protect the ship left behind and will tether to your capsule.


Suggestion; flip it round the other way - if you leave your active ship, the tether remains 'attached' to the ship and the capsule is 'free'.

Conceptually this makes much more sense (as, when ejecting, the capsule is a new entity on grid), and from a balance perspective, this retains some of the security associated with POS forcefields.

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
Anthar Thebess
#122 - 2015-11-10 09:20:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Gabriel Karade wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:




I think new citadels should have a separate upgrade to generate bubble similar to pos shield.
It don't have to be even as big as medium tower have , but on second though it could vary depending on the upgrade installed.
WH people need this.

The main difference should be that no part of citadel will be protected by this shield.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

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aldhura
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers
Top Tier
#123 - 2015-11-10 18:49:36 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Gabriel Karade wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:




I think new citadels should have a separate upgrade to generate bubble similar to pos shield.
It don't have to be even as big as medium tower have , but on second though it could vary depending on the upgrade installed.
WH people need this.

The main difference should be that no part of citadel will be protected by this shield.


Being able to "expel" everyone from a **** caged pos is a good mechanic. This capability will cease to exist in the new structure, so if you in your citadel in a wh and its bubbled up, you pretty screwed.
In null you can just JC somewhere else or cyno in support. In a wh, you pretty screwed.
But hey, wh's can become dead like null.. hs is fun too Twisted
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#124 - 2015-11-11 16:35:17 UTC
Been asked on slack a few times, nothing concrete for answers

BPO's get converted from station to structure, complete with current research, that has been said

What about pre build components, will they get renamed as well?

So, if we build components now to be ready to build citadels on day one (minus the 3 extra BPO's for comps we need) will they get renamed to structure at the same time the BPO's get renamed or will they have some sort of NPC buy order and we need to build structure parts after that time?

Along these same lines, will current outposts requirements be changed to structures or will this be the effective end to building outposts?
Roberta Gastoni
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2015-11-11 20:24:34 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Been asked on slack a few times, nothing concrete for answers

BPO's get converted from station to structure, complete with current research, that has been said

What about pre build components, will they get renamed as well?

So, if we build components now to be ready to build citadels on day one (minus the 3 extra BPO's for comps we need) will they get renamed to structure at the same time the BPO's get renamed or will they have some sort of NPC buy order and we need to build structure parts after that time?

Along these same lines, will current outposts requirements be changed to structures or will this be the effective end to building outposts?


Yes, in fact they mentioned how "to make a profit" from the changes.

If you check the blog some parts are cheaper to make now and some other cheaper after the changes.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#126 - 2015-11-11 23:08:09 UTC
Roberta Gastoni wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Been asked on slack a few times, nothing concrete for answers

BPO's get converted from station to structure, complete with current research, that has been said

What about pre build components, will they get renamed as well?

So, if we build components now to be ready to build citadels on day one (minus the 3 extra BPO's for comps we need) will they get renamed to structure at the same time the BPO's get renamed or will they have some sort of NPC buy order and we need to build structure parts after that time?

Along these same lines, will current outposts requirements be changed to structures or will this be the effective end to building outposts?


Yes, in fact they mentioned how "to make a profit" from the changes.

If you check the blog some parts are cheaper to make now and some other cheaper after the changes.



Yeah, that is why I am asking, I will make some parts now, some later, but I don't want to make some now, then not have them convert

They mention market manipulation, but does that mean materials or comps or both, still pretty vague to invest 3-4 hundred bil into without knowing for sure.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#127 - 2015-11-11 23:36:58 UTC
aldhura wrote:

Being able to "expel" everyone from a **** caged pos is a good mechanic. This capability will cease to exist in the new structure, so if you in your citadel in a wh and its bubbled up, you pretty screwed.
In null you can just JC somewhere else or cyno in support. In a wh, you pretty screwed.
But hey, wh's can become dead like null.. hs is fun too Twisted

Other than the fact that your structure is only vulnerable for a few hours a day tops, has epic guns that will make POS guns look like childrens toys so can shoot those dictors off the grid, the fact you can prepare your fleet tethered etc.
And consider how big a citadel is, and therefore how hard it will be to actually bubble the entire thing if people are defending (And since the guns are awesome, it's much easier to defend).

So yes, you won't be able to starburst anymore, but starburst always was a silly mechanic made possible by our poor bump mechinics, despite the lore that top speed is caused by warp drive drag so going over it should be basically impossible.
Roberta Gastoni
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#128 - 2015-11-13 20:50:37 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:

Yeah, that is why I am asking, I will make some parts now, some later, but I don't want to make some now, then not have them convert

They mention market manipulation, but does that mean materials or comps or both, still pretty vague to invest 3-4 hundred bil into without knowing for sure.


From what they said in the o7 show and in the dev blog, I'm almost certain the components will be converted to the new ones.

However since no dev said it clearly, and I'm not planning to make "a profit" out of it, i'm holding out my production for when i'm sure of it, close to the release date.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#129 - 2015-11-13 21:52:08 UTC
Quick question.. Or maybe a quick request. Currently to attack an opponents structure in highsec you have to wardec them. Could a suggested adjustment to this be done where anybody can shoot a structure wardec or not, during its onlining phase? Basically during the time the structure is anchoring, it has no protection from concord and can be shot or defended by anybody.

After the structure is online, the structure receives all deemed protections from concord.

Basically create a vulnerability timer for highsec structures based on its time to anchor. Anybody who attacks a structure gets a criminal timer but no concord reprocussions (concord doesn't care about protecting half built crap).

I just had that thought as both a method of deali with mass structure and as well as a way to get fights out of people. Onlining structure, even in highsec it's vulnerable.

Yaay!!!!
Roberta Gastoni
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2015-11-14 10:55:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Roberta Gastoni
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Quick question.. Or maybe a quick request. Currently to attack an opponents structure in highsec you have to wardec them. Could a suggested adjustment to this be done where anybody can shoot a structure wardec or not, during its onlining phase? Basically during the time the structure is anchoring, it has no protection from concord and can be shot or defended by anybody.

After the structure is online, the structure receives all deemed protections from concord.

Basically create a vulnerability timer for highsec structures based on its time to anchor. Anybody who attacks a structure gets a criminal timer but no concord reprocussions (concord doesn't care about protecting half built crap).

I just had that thought as both a method of deali with mass structure and as well as a way to get fights out of people. Onlining structure, even in highsec it's vulnerable.


When you anchor a structure it goes invulnerable for 24h, so regardless of the security of the system, nobody can shoot it.

If during the vulnerability window in high sec anybody could shoot the structure, considering 70% of the people are in high sec, that you wont be able to online modules designed for low and null sec, and probably you'll still need charters to keep the structure or the modules online, nobody would anchor one. Why get the same penalities and risks of low sec for less reward?

If you want to shoot a structure, wardec the corp, and at the designated vulnerability timers show up to attack it, with the risk of defenders being present. Mind, vulnerability timers are the same in all secs.

High Sec is intended to be the low risk, low gain zone where newbros or simply casual players hang around.

However, your idea might have a use for abandoned structures from inactive corps. Give every citadel a timer after which either they can be captured or attacked without concord intervention, maybe remove them from the overview to be scanned with combat probes as anomalies. I'm more for the capture as I think about the WH space, where while exploring you might probe an abandoned citadel, capture it and make your home, and capturing an inactive citadel in wh space with the current anchor mechanics could be a "content creator".
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#131 - 2015-11-14 18:07:10 UTC
Is it still the case that Citadels do not show up in the overview from range (ie. not being on grid) and instead in the probe scanner?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#132 - 2015-11-15 16:46:55 UTC
What happens to member assets if a wormhole citadel is unanchored?
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#133 - 2015-11-15 18:15:06 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Is it still the case that Citadels do not show up in the overview from range (ie. not being on grid) and instead in the probe scanner?



Yes, no , both, maybe

If you have docking rights = shows up in overview

if you do NOT have docking rights = shows up in probe scanner window

Presumably, they all show up in probe scanner window, but I am not 100% on that
Roberta Gastoni
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#134 - 2015-11-15 18:38:24 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Is it still the case that Citadels do not show up in the overview from range (ie. not being on grid) and instead in the probe scanner?



Yes, no , both, maybe

If you have docking rights = shows up in overview

if you do NOT have docking rights = shows up in probe scanner window

Presumably, they all show up in probe scanner window, but I am not 100% on that


Having all citadel showing up as soon as you entered a system or, worse, a wormhole is really not for the best.

In my opinion only those where you have docking right should show up, the rest should be at best anomalies you should be able to probe.

CCP is scared of people hiding citadels in safe spot, I got that, but with grid size increase and directional scanner, we should be able to prevent that
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#135 - 2015-11-15 21:00:40 UTC
Kynric wrote:
What happens to member assets if a wormhole citadel is unanchored?



asset safety
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#136 - 2015-11-15 21:01:39 UTC
Roberta Gastoni wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Is it still the case that Citadels do not show up in the overview from range (ie. not being on grid) and instead in the probe scanner?



Yes, no , both, maybe

If you have docking rights = shows up in overview

if you do NOT have docking rights = shows up in probe scanner window

Presumably, they all show up in probe scanner window, but I am not 100% on that


Having all citadel showing up as soon as you entered a system or, worse, a wormhole is really not for the best.

In my opinion only those where you have docking right should show up, the rest should be at best anomalies you should be able to probe.

CCP is scared of people hiding citadels in safe spot, I got that, but with grid size increase and directional scanner, we should be able to prevent that



No probing, they are in probe results window with 100% hit already - like an anomoly
Roberta Gastoni
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2015-11-15 22:04:04 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Kynric wrote:
What happens to member assets if a wormhole citadel is unanchored?



asset safety


No asset safety in wormhole.
Roberta Gastoni
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#138 - 2015-11-15 22:05:22 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:

No probing, they are in probe results window with 100% hit already - like an anomoly


My point was they shouldn't be 100% like an anomaly, but they should need probing.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#139 - 2015-11-15 22:28:58 UTC
Roberta Gastoni wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Kynric wrote:
What happens to member assets if a wormhole citadel is unanchored?



asset safety


No asset safety in wormhole.



ahh, yeah, sorry, didn't notice he said wormhole

Also, if they can make it work, once attack starts no "Trash it" while docked either
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#140 - 2015-11-15 22:29:53 UTC
Roberta Gastoni wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:

No probing, they are in probe results window with 100% hit already - like an anomoly


My point was they shouldn't be 100% like an anomaly, but they should need probing.



A XL is the largest structure in game

They have never even hinted at needing probes, to bring it up now is fighting an uphill battle for sure