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[New Structures] Condensed thread

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Author
Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
#161 - 2015-11-25 21:52:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Esrevid Nekkeg
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Docking

  • Medium Citadels: all subcapitals can dock. The Orca and Freighters can also dock.
For clarity, I presume this includes Jump-Freighters as well?

CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Citadels in wormhole spaces do not benefit from asset safety. All items are lost when the structure is destroyed there.
I would very much like to see that all goods present in a Citadel that gets blown up in W-space has a chance to drop as loot.


That said, than you for the condensed write-up on where things stand, really appreciated.

Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......

Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#162 - 2015-11-25 22:41:12 UTC
Esrevid Nekkeg wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Docking

  • Medium Citadels: all subcapitals can dock. The Orca and Freighters can also dock.
For clarity, I presume this includes Jump-Freighters as well?

CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Citadels in wormhole spaces do not benefit from asset safety. All items are lost when the structure is destroyed there.
I would very much like to see that all goods present in a Citadel that gets blown up in W-space has a chance to drop as loot.


That said, than you for the condensed write-up on where things stand, really appreciated.



I am pretty sure that has changed and everything in a WH citadel has a chance to drop as loot

There is some discussion as far as JF, but right now, yes they are going to be allowed to dock
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Reckless Contingency.
#163 - 2015-11-28 17:13:41 UTC
Any updates on the Oberservation arrays?
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#164 - 2015-11-29 05:11:42 UTC
Ncc 1709 wrote:
Any updates on the Oberservation arrays?



Come back in late 2017

There is so much **** that will come before they even remotely think about giant billboards
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#165 - 2015-11-30 05:39:49 UTC
Considering they said industry is most likely next in line, I'd rather hear if they have any thoughts yet on factory and laboratory structures and modules.
I haven't heard a thing about their plans to shake up datacores since it was mentioned in the lab structure thread, and there was a fair bit of disagreement in the community as to how it should work.
Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#166 - 2015-12-07 18:56:11 UTC
Any update with regards tethering concerns?

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293

Kenneth Fritz
DND Industries
#167 - 2015-12-16 17:20:44 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
aldhura wrote:
I really think the mooring feature doesn't make sense.
You are basically stuck in the cap ship.
I have read that once you leave the moored ship in become vulnerable and your pod is moored, that will mean, as I read it anyway, you are basically stuck in that capital ship. I don't have one anymore, but means there will be no point in getting one.
Something like being able to switch ships for a couple hours will be a better approach.

What will happen to all our current POS's and pos modules? will we get a "free" swap out for the new structures ? or are we now stuck with more junk we can't get rid of?

Dock your Cap ship in a large Citadel.
It's pretty easy.



I think the point is that not everyone has the 7+ billion isk that will be needed to purchase the large citadels. Of course that is assuming all those people out here building these things won't hike the prices. Since when everyone and their mother starts trying to purchase these structures for their corps and alliances a hefty skew on the supply vs. demand will occur for a while. But that's a whole seperate set of hamster wheels.

Who's your end of the world buddy?

Amarisen Gream
Pleasant Peninsula Productions
Order of Allied Knights
#168 - 2015-12-20 08:52:20 UTC
With these new structures - the only thing I really wanna see is some staggering on the release of each size.
This would allow more after deployment feed back and doesn't end up with some groups investing in a XL to find out that on TQ the citadels have a glitch and the all start blowing up.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs

sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#169 - 2015-12-20 11:53:31 UTC  |  Edited by: sero Hita
CCP Ytterbium wrote:


Assets & Asset safety:


  • All citadels have infinite personal and corporation hangar capacity to fulfill their defense and housing role. This may not be the case for all the future structures however.
  • All citadels have asset safety feature. When it is destroyed, all assets are impounded. When impounded, players have to wait a minimum amount of time before being able to access them again.


There are 2 ways to recover impounded assets:

  1. Deliver to the same solar system: assets can be delivered locally if there are NPC stations or Citadels in the same solar system. Players will have to wait a minimum of 5 days before being able to deliver them.
  2. Deliver to another solar system: players will have to pay 15% of the total item value and wait a minimum of 20 days before being able to deliver them. Players cannot choose destination in that case. It will always be the top station in the closest low-security system if the destroyed Citadel was in null or low-security space. If the Citadel was in high-security space, it will be the closest high-security solar system. If there is a NPC station in the same solar system as the destroyed Citadel in high-security or low-security space this option is not available.


Further information on asset safety:


  • The timer starts counting down as soon as the structure is destroyed, no button needs to be pressed. This ensure players with lapsing accounts do not need to wait the full duration when coming back into the game.
  • We will automatically move items if no choice is set after 20 days. If there is a NPC station in the solar system, we will move them there. If there aren't, we will move them as discussed in option 2 above. This avoids players to build local ship caches in a null-security system that cannot be removed.
  • In case of remote delivery, the payment can be done on a one item basis for players not having enough cash to pay for the whole fee at once.
  • Current plan is to move capitals and supercapitals as well, so yes they can go to low-security NPC stations.
  • Citadels in wormhole spaces do not benefit from asset safety. All items are lost when the structure is destroyed there.


Would it not have made sense, to make the asset evacuation procedure voluntary? Like a rig on the citadel. Something like a evac center, or evac shuttle bay. In order to rescue your stuff you would have to gimp your citadel by taking up a slot. I like the idea of asset safety would cost you something(outside of the 15% charge).

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker

Roberta Gastoni
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#170 - 2015-12-20 13:10:57 UTC
sero Hita wrote:

Would it not have made sense, to make the asset evacuation procedure voluntary? Like a rig on the citadel. Something like a evac center, or evac shuttle bay. In order to rescue your stuff you would have to gimp your citadel by taking up a slot. I like the idea of asset safety would cost you something(outside of the 15% charge).


Keep in mind asset safety and evacuation is the specialty of the citadels from what CCP told us, and other future structures might not have this feature or have it in a very nerfed state.

Your idea might be good on other kind of structures, like the industrial ones, as either they make industrial ones way more efficient than citadels, or people might choose to do industry into a citadel instead.
Yana Shakti
Gradient Shift
#171 - 2015-12-23 15:55:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Yana Shakti
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Assets & Asset safety:

  • All citadels have infinite personal and corporation hangar capacity to fulfill their defense and housing role. ...
  • All citadels have asset safety feature. ...



My soul animal is the rat.

I'm spending the morning running PVE exploration sites, 'stealing' from the Angel Cartel, and reading Howard's old (1932) Conan the Barbarian stories. It occurs to me that our concept of PVP in EVE is far too generic and restrictive. It mostly involves direct violent attack -- which, by the way I enjoy quite a lot on another toon. However, by contrast, at the moment all I can truly steal in space are some schekels out of leftover ESS's (mostly extinct now) and perhaps some random moon gue from the nearby towers. I do realize that there are market schemes and corp thefts. But I like to do my EVE playing out in space.

The new citadels present a brand new opportunity for enterprising thieves to ply their skills. I would encourage CCP to allow the new structures to be hacked directly for profit. The owners are more than welcome to upgrade their defenses, of course. I'd like to see a new meta devoted to hacking and counter-hacking. I don't want to entosis your station to 'own' it. I just want to be able to lift your isk and your modules when you're not looking. You're welcome to try to blow me up as I do.
Ranzera Stez
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#172 - 2015-12-30 08:03:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranzera Stez
I don't see the gain in having no asset protection in WH. You're already removing all the risk of having a personal station in Low Sec. It's simple to have your industry **** on an alt in low sec instead. What's stopping people from building suitcase carriers and logging off their bling while tethered? And didn't we decide that it's a stupid idea to be safer outside the citadel?

This is simple for anyone who spends a modicum of time thinking about ways around this arbitrary bullshit. Also lol at the disabling "trash it" while under attack. We can't increase the convenience of evaccing but we sure can increase the convenience of burning down wormhole structures (referring to the plans to decrease destruction time to 48 hours). It seems like the trolls have CCP's ear.
Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
#173 - 2016-01-03 11:03:07 UTC
I've poured over the various vidoes, blogs, and forum posts. I have some questions:


  • Can large/XL be deployed in high security space like regular POSes or will they be limited to null?
  • Will you be able to anchor citadels in systems like Jita, or will they have the same system restrictions as current POSes?
  • Since they can be deployed anywhere in a system, what determines who gets to mine which moon in a system?
  • If a citadel is in immune mode where it cannot be shot, can the owner still man the guns at shoot at ships in low/null/wh space?
  • where will structure components be manufactured? Station only? can that be done with one of the existing POS modules?
  • where will the hulls be built? Station only? somewhere else?
  • what happens to old pos/outpost modules? do they become collector's items, refunded, or converted to new structures?
  • what happens to old bpos like POS and outposts? do they get refunded at npc price, converted, or something else?
  • what happens to faction POS/module bcs?
  • what advantages is there to allow public access to a high sec citadel? can you allow/tax others to use your research/manufacturing/market?
  • can you avoid NPC station taxes/brokers fees if you setup a market in a high sec large/XL citadel?
  • 12 of the 15 structure bpos already exist. you can build them right now. they do not have the new build requirements yet. if you build units today will they get converted to the new units or refunded? IE will a "station market network" module built today work as an input into the new citadels or does it become useless?
Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
#174 - 2016-01-03 11:11:05 UTC
O2 jayjay wrote:
HS Citidal

I have a big concern. Lets say I want to have a strong presence in Jita when these stations come out. I place a Large citidal in Jita and try to make it a new trade hub. Its late and i have to woek the the morning so I log off. 2 hours after I log off someone places a Large citidal in Jita to compete with me. 6 hours after he drops his station I log in and im like WTF and want to contest the station being built. I war dec the corp but it takes 24 hours before im able to shoot. The station cannot be fires upon and only has a 15 min window before I have to go thru a long process to destroy it. Can we
A: Reduce the war dec timer
B: Increase the time it takes a station to deploy to 48hrs
C: in the 15 min window, make it availabe to where anyone can attack it but you go suspect. (Without a wardec)
D: extend the window to 12 hours on its first deployment. (15 mins apply after the structure was properly deployed and not contested in the 12 hr window.)

That way it gives players time to contest citidal being built in their region and we dont get station being deployed everywhere. I understand it take 30 mins at its respectable DPS but attacking it 3 times while having days in between is alot of work and if you miss one timer you have to start all over. Can we make it possiable to clear a station in a weekend? Start Friday night and end Sunday night kinda thing?

Thank you


Wait so you want your citadel to only be vulnerable for 15 minutes when deployed but you want any citadels that come after yours to be vulnerable for a much longer period of time? I'm not sure why being "first" should grant some sort of extra protection against newcomers.

I'm all for you being able to easy contest other people's citadels as long as we can just as easily contest yours.
Arya Ikahrus
#175 - 2016-01-04 23:07:50 UTC
I'm still against asset protection for mediums and pretty much for it in XL-Citadels.

However, I've changed my mind on larges. I think they should be able to get a limited version of it if they are willing to fit a rig for it.
Ranzera Stez
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#176 - 2016-01-07 20:13:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranzera Stez
Arya Ikahrus wrote:
I'm still against asset protection for mediums and pretty much for it in XL-Citadels.

However, I've changed my mind on larges. I think they should be able to get a limited version of it if they are willing to fit a rig for it.


This is a good compromise. I think larges should get full asset protection though. There's the looming possibility of larges being the biggest structure that won't just attract aggressors.
Arya Ikahrus
#177 - 2016-01-08 09:40:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Arya Ikahrus
Ranzera Stez wrote:
Arya Ikahrus wrote:
I'm still against asset protection for mediums and pretty much for it in XL-Citadels.

However, I've changed my mind on larges. I think they should be able to get a limited version of it if they are willing to fit a rig for it.


This is a good compromise. I think larges should get full asset protection though. There's the looming possibility of larges being the biggest structure that won't just attract aggressors.


My thinking is that asset protection really isn't very Eve, however I think I get what CCP is trying to do. I think they hope to encourage null industry and remove a roadblock to lapsed accounts returning by ensuring they can still get their stuff even if it was left in deep null.

XL's as alliance 'capitals' or 'trade hubs' works well for that, most groups won't be able to afford or justify lots of XL's. Yeah, goons or PL or someone might blow it up to troll you but considering that incoming damage is capped, they can be armed with AoE doomsdays and you'll get everything that was in it back within a week or two I don't think that will be as big a problem as some are worried it will be.

Then there are slightly less useful L's fitted with evac services as cheap backups/solutions for poorer groups.

& finally M's, which shouldn't get any asset safety at all, ever. They're supposedly going to be quite cheap, have infinite storage and will only be open to attack like 3 hours out of 168. Full item recovery as well is going way over the top.
Ophelia Lemm
The hero must be one
Living Breathing Fuel Blocks
#178 - 2016-01-10 22:32:17 UTC
Oh well, all this citadel business only looks cool on the outside, the more I read, the more frustrated I get...

Few points I'd like to clarify:

1. So, assuming I can't dock a capital (carrier, dred) in a medium-sized citadel, how can I safely eject from it (to do PI, scouting, ratting, ect.) without having to worry about it being stolen/shot at? For now I only see that tethering allows logging of, and it does not affect ships with no pilots in them. Does phasing-out of POS-fields mean my capital will become a coffin for my character, pretty much like titans do? Since POSes - as they are now - allow for safe storage of capitals with capsules ejected (and smaller caps can be hidden from d-scan too), one would expect same functionality from any citadel.

2. Also, blocking overview/D-scan when docked to a citadel is bad idea, especially in WH-space, where there is no local chat to check for neutrals in system, before undocking something expensive (or anything at all). Assuming-direct-control meme is great and all, but you can't seriously expect that every member of a corp/alliance (not to mention guests) will be given permissions to use it to check local space for safety. And again, does it permit d-scan? Does it permit checking number of signatures/anomalies in current system? As it is now citadel makes players blind to their surroundings, especially those living in wh-space.

3. Will tethering/docking be available via standing system?

And a wish-list:

1. Asset protection? I'd rather CCP just drop it, XL included. All the more reason for people to actually try to protect their stuff.

2. Since overview/d-scan is blocked while docked to a citadel, might as well make a proper station interior, otherwise it just don't make sense. If CCP designers too lazy/busy to make new interior for citadel, just reuse what you have already, 90% of PVPers don't give a damn anyway.

3. I find it rather ironic that, while CCP provide so much character customization options, player are devoid of any ability to show it off. Either by having customized frozen corpses (that alone would be grand) or by having some public areas on stations/citadels for toons to interact with each other. Its not like I expect you to release all that stuff with customizable station interiors/NPC traders/twi-lek dancers i saw on youtube in one day. Just a public place to sit and talk in a separate channel would already be utterly awesome.
Anthar Thebess
#179 - 2016-01-11 09:19:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Yes, initial investment for a wormhole that have capitals is Large citadel - it allow you to store capitals.
Citadels will not shoot aggressors, so prepare to keep your alt logged and operating guns.

Asset protection.

This is hard one.
You could say that, this will make game more dynamic, demanding, fun.
Yes and no - this is only game and you can play it only when you have free time, and can do something.

Losing all your stuff because you cannot login today, as your kid got sick - is good example how broken this can be.
I am aware that in wormhole space you can lose all your stuff now - but people that don't liked this idea simply didn't move to wormhole space but populated nullsec/lowsec and higsec.

I rly hope that CCP will not touch storage and docking possibilities of NPC stations in NPC null regions.
Because day they allow them to be destructible like citadels, groups like MOA will be gone.
Simplest solution for the big sov players will be destruction of all NPC stations/citadels to reduce staging of all small roaming groups.


Some regions will be totally broken by this changes.
From what i got till now - if someone destroy your citadel, all stuff will land in lowsec.

For regions like Fountain, Stain, Venal ... closest lowsec is 2-3 mids (jf) 5-7 mids ( normal capitals) from the location you had your citadel.
Even if the current nearest NPC station in NPC region is like 4 LY away.
Yes you can rebuild your citadel, but we both know that there are some situations when this will not be possible ( you where not playing, your alliance lost space, some corp left, maybe disbanded, etc)

I hope that CCP will not break this.
Raydan Ketath
Smoking Rifles
#180 - 2016-01-12 10:43:46 UTC
Apologies if this has already been asked - I did have a quick search.

Can you transfer ownership of citadels like you can with outposts?