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[New Structures] Condensed thread

First post First post
Author
Arronicus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#361 - 2016-10-24 11:40:28 UTC
Je'ron wrote:
Close this thread and continue on thread Dev blog: Building Dreams: Introducing Engineering Complexes


Not sure if troll, or stupid, but this thread is for ALL upcoming structures, not just citadels, engineering complexs, drilling platforms, or observatory arrays.
Erasmus Grant
Un4seen Development
Sev3rance
#362 - 2016-10-24 21:16:34 UTC
No exemplar sites for the Engineering Complexes like the Citadels got in the hype to their release?
Erasmus Grant
Un4seen Development
Sev3rance
#363 - 2016-10-28 19:40:37 UTC
Also curious if the Lab from the Caldari Epic Arc will be convert to a stand up citadel module
Endellur
Nexus Intelligence Agency
#364 - 2016-10-29 15:15:30 UTC
As a high sec player why would I want to use one of these new structures over an NPC station as my home base? If I make one of these structures my home I risk losing all my assets for some number of days and getting podded if the structure is destroyed. I think industry and research failure is an acceptable loss for the added benefits to those processes but in their current state I can't see players logging off in these structures in high sec with NPC stations next door.
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#365 - 2016-10-29 16:22:33 UTC
Endellur wrote:
As a high sec player why would I want to use one of these new structures over an NPC station as my home base? If I make one of these structures my home I risk losing all my assets for some number of days and getting podded if the structure is destroyed. I think industry and research failure is an acceptable loss for the added benefits to those processes but in their current state I can't see players logging off in these structures in high sec with NPC stations next door.


I believe that is the idea...to give you a choice. If you are that concerned about risk, then yes, maybe stations are best for you and you'll have to give up some of your revenues and thus costs to do so. And if the markets you are involved with change enough you might even have to find new markets.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Endellur
Nexus Intelligence Agency
#366 - 2016-10-29 19:48:31 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Endellur wrote:
As a high sec player why would I want to use one of these new structures over an NPC station as my home base? If I make one of these structures my home I risk losing all my assets for some number of days and getting podded if the structure is destroyed. I think industry and research failure is an acceptable loss for the added benefits to those processes but in their current state I can't see players logging off in these structures in high sec with NPC stations next door.


I believe that is the idea...to give you a choice. If you are that concerned about risk, then yes, maybe stations are best for you and you'll have to give up some of your revenues and thus costs to do so. And if the markets you are involved with change enough you might even have to find new markets.


I am not concerned with any of the benefits vs risks of the market, industry or research bonuses. I'm only talking about making the citadels home. The citadels are designed to be used as a home base but there are no benefits from living in one when it comes to your basic storage and docking and only negatives from losing your items for days and getting podded when they are destroyed. Seems like those things either need to change or there should be some benefit from taking that risk. If not, then the citadels will only be pit stops at best in high sec.
sstabeler Echerie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#367 - 2016-10-29 21:00:53 UTC
because that's not the purpose of Citadels- they are a "jack of all trades" Structure for situations where a specialist Structure isn't really needed- particularly when structures are expensive to keep fueled. If you are just storing stuff in a Citadel, then you don't actually need one in that system. the actual "home base" structure is going to be the Administration Hub- which is where you can have Corp offices, for example. It's just Citadels were done first since they are the area defense/jack-of-all-trades structure. Basically, Citadels are in more-or-less direct descent of the POS, and are intended to function similarly. Whereas the other Structures are what give the actual bonuses to various activities- Engineering Complexes are in direct descent of the various industrial arrays available at the moment- they allow you to do industry more efficiently. Drilling Platforms will likely allow benefits to Mining ( I imagine they may be able to Compress ore, for example, while Engineering Complexes Reprocess it.)
Endellur
Nexus Intelligence Agency
#368 - 2016-10-29 22:30:55 UTC
sstabeler Echerie wrote:
because that's not the purpose of Citadels- they are a "jack of all trades" Structure for situations where a specialist Structure isn't really needed- particularly when structures are expensive to keep fueled. If you are just storing stuff in a Citadel, then you don't actually need one in that system. the actual "home base" structure is going to be the Administration Hub- which is where you can have Corp offices, for example. It's just Citadels were done first since they are the area defense/jack-of-all-trades structure. Basically, Citadels are in more-or-less direct descent of the POS, and are intended to function similarly. Whereas the other Structures are what give the actual bonuses to various activities- Engineering Complexes are in direct descent of the various industrial arrays available at the moment- they allow you to do industry more efficiently. Drilling Platforms will likely allow benefits to Mining ( I imagine they may be able to Compress ore, for example, while Engineering Complexes Reprocess it.)


Ah I see, I thought the citadel was the final name for the admin hub. Maybe the admin hub will have different rules or it will be handled later.
Andreve en Distel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#369 - 2016-10-30 05:40:31 UTC
sstabeler Echerie wrote:
Drilling Platforms will likely allow benefits to Mining ( I imagine they may be able to Compress ore, for example, while Engineering Complexes Reprocess it.)

CCP Fozzie confirmed HERE that at least part of the plan for Drilling Platforms is to make them the bonused structure for reprocessing, which at present for service modules would mean reprocessing and compressing, since they're baked into a single module. I've noticed on the SiSi market that the reprocessing service module is listed separately from the Citadel Service Modules and Engineering Service Modules, so it looks like steps are already being taken to prep the system for potentially adding additional "Mining" service modules.

Bearing that in mind, it makes me eager/anxious to learn more about Drilling Platforms. As a small-time Industrialist, I can only hope that they either function differently from the Citadels and ECs (not very likely) or they at least have a "Small" tier available...even with recent tweaks to things like fuel costs, I'd be having a hard time keeping a single Medium EC running and guarded during vulnerability. If I have to have a second Medium structure with those kinds of upkeep costs and babysitting required, no way I could manage both.
Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#370 - 2016-10-30 05:57:08 UTC
Endellur wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Endellur wrote:
As a high sec player why would I want to use one of these new structures over an NPC station as my home base? If I make one of these structures my home I risk losing all my assets for some number of days and getting podded if the structure is destroyed. I think industry and research failure is an acceptable loss for the added benefits to those processes but in their current state I can't see players logging off in these structures in high sec with NPC stations next door.


I believe that is the idea...to give you a choice. If you are that concerned about risk, then yes, maybe stations are best for you and you'll have to give up some of your revenues and thus costs to do so. And if the markets you are involved with change enough you might even have to find new markets.


I am not concerned with any of the benefits vs risks of the market, industry or research bonuses. I'm only talking about making the citadels home. The citadels are designed to be used as a home base but there are no benefits from living in one when it comes to your basic storage and docking and only negatives from losing your items for days and getting podded when they are destroyed. Seems like those things either need to change or there should be some benefit from taking that risk. If not, then the citadels will only be pit stops at best in high sec.


There are substantial benefits. Go to Perimeter, a substantial portion of the PLEX market has moved to citadels. People are putting PLEX in citadels and lots of them. Other goods are slowly moving over to them too. Eventually Perimeter could be the new mega trade hub in New Eden.

So yeah, it is a question of risk vs. rewards. And it looks like a number of players think the risks are worth it.

Now, as an independent invention/manufacturer of T2 stuff...no I won't be launching my own citadel anytime soon. But if there is a citadel that has good taxes/fees/etc. and there is good reason to think it will be well defended...yeah I might move. Heck, I'd even join in on defense fleets (always love some good pew pew). But only if it entails a cost advantage over my competitors.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Soltys
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#371 - 2016-10-30 11:52:23 UTC
Quote:
Other goods are slowly moving over to them too. Eventually Perimeter could be the new mega trade hub in New Eden.


No other goods besides plex/injectors/extractors made any move anywhere - and those three only in a small part. Everything else is an occasional exception.

And everytrhing is being of course proxied (or offshored how some tend to say) to the nearest hub, but that's as far as it goes.

Citadels still have broken / non-implemented features (I'm looking at you, ******* "deliveries") and one crucial thing CCP has been blisfully ignoring: courier contracts and ability to deny docking rights at corp's whim.


Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl & Kuvl

Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#372 - 2016-10-30 20:17:35 UTC
Soltys wrote:
Quote:
Other goods are slowly moving over to them too. Eventually Perimeter could be the new mega trade hub in New Eden.


No other goods besides plex/injectors/extractors made any move anywhere - and those three only in a small part. Everything else is an occasional exception.

And everytrhing is being of course proxied (or offshored how some tend to say) to the nearest hub, but that's as far as it goes.

Citadels still have broken / non-implemented features (I'm looking at you, ******* "deliveries") and one crucial thing CCP has been blisfully ignoring: courier contracts and ability to deny docking rights at corp's whim.




Yes, there are still alot of stuff sitting on the market in Jita but the question is where are the trades taking place. People who have put up 50 PLEX for sale are not going to move them to Perimeter, bu the prices in Perimeter are always better. That is where I buy PLEX and skill injector/extractors for the most part now, not Jita. And in fitting out several new ships I noticed that periodically some modules were cheaper in perimeter. Still, that price differential was not enough to induce me to undock and go buy stuff there, mainly because it was so sporadic. So if it gets to the point where I can outfit an entire ship or nearly so I'll probably start buying even more stuff in Perimeter.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Kalido Raddi
Crown Mineworks
Goonswarm Federation
#373 - 2016-12-07 16:48:31 UTC
Does anyone else get a bug where you can't remotely start industry jobs that are situated in a Citadel, even if you have enough skill to do so?

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I'm not reading 18+ pages to find out.
TheGunzo
TheCorporation
DevilBear
#374 - 2016-12-12 14:49:05 UTC  |  Edited by: TheGunzo
Good day all,

After going through the kill mails (took me 1 minute on zkill), I have found the original structures (M & L) are pretty useless in killing anything. So imagine the usefulness of the new engineering structures in killing ships.

I would hope if an Alliance/Corp were to set one up, I would hope they would have some ability to depend themselves. Make it some risk for the attackers. A 14B (+ standups + WH loot) investment should not be a free KM.

Consider this, the # of wardecs in HS, the number of structures in LS, NS and WH and there are basically NO kills by those structures.

I'm not looking for insta kills, but if the attacking team isn't on the ball, they could easily lose ships when attacking a defended structure. Defended = someone 'manning' the guns/fighters. I think you'd agree, the number should not be this low.


Next point: Rig Costs on Large Citadels

Just priced out a ME II Optimization build with ME/TE 5/10. It is 33B in Jita. I get putting up orders and such would bring that down to about 28B, but why would anyone in their right mind put a 28-33B isk rig into a 9B structure that at best is a mosquito swatter?

Gunzo
Sisi Collins
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#375 - 2017-01-10 14:01:35 UTC
Just watched new Scope video on Evenews24 and noticed that - http://c2n.me/3GfWkwD . I hope this is about new structure - Gates Smile As waiting until Fall for drilling platforms looks a little bit absurd.
Big smile