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[New Structures] Condensed thread

First post First post
Author
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2015-10-28 14:09:16 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
I'm going to unpin the other structures threads and link them all here as we are running out of space in this forum subsection.

You may find the threads there:

Dato Koppla
Did he say Jump
Dock Workers
#2 - 2015-10-28 14:46:08 UTC
Nothing to say really, just wanted to be first.
Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#3 - 2015-10-28 15:10:08 UTC
It would help to know what has CCP taken on board and what not from those threads. Some of them haven't seen a blue post since their creation.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#4 - 2015-10-28 15:17:21 UTC
I believe that is why CCP Ytterbium created this one. From what I saw in the Vegas Keynote I am actually excited about the citadels.
However I am not really fond of the w-space treatment. Feels like wormholers are second or third class citizens of New Eden - the unknown.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#5 - 2015-10-28 15:39:13 UTC
For a moment i thought this said "condecending thread" and found it very odd that it was stickied. Anyway, yay for more slots on first page.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#6 - 2015-10-28 15:41:09 UTC
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:
It would help to know what has CCP taken on board and what not from those threads. Some of them haven't seen a blue post since their creation.


Yep, I'm working on that right now P
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#7 - 2015-10-28 15:56:03 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Ytterbium
Alright, to recap where we're at with this.


Tethering:


  • Going to be renamed tethering instead of mooring (mooring is confusing for various reasons).
  • As long as within some specific range of the structure and do not have weapons timer, you ship is tethered, meaning it cannot receive damage or be locked.
  • You can align and move within the specified tethering range and still be protected, as long as you do not go outside the maximum range.
  • You will not be able to tether to the structure if you are warp scrambled from a targeted module (HIC point, regular warp scrambling modules).
  • You will be able to tether to the structure if you are within an AoE warp scramble bubble (HIC AoE bubble, interdictor bubble). Of course you will not be able to warp away however. This is to prevent people from being caught their pants down when logging back on near a structure.
  • Tethering will be shown in the UI and visually in space.
  • We are investigating options to minimize bumping when you are tethered.
  • If your ship has access to dock into the structure it can use tethering. This doesn't mean you ship can dock however. For instance, you may have access to dock into a Medium Citadel as a Titan pilot, but you still are unable to dock. Your Titan will still be tethered when in range of the structure.
  • If you log off you do not stay in space near the structure, you log off as you normally would (which is why calling this feature "mooring" is confusing).
  • If you leave your active ship the tether will not protect the ship left behind and will tether to your capsule.


Docking


  • Medium Citadels: all subcapitals can dock. The Orca and Freighters can also dock.
  • Large Citadels: all capitals can dock. This includes the Rorqual.
  • X-Large Citadels: all ships can dock.
  • There are different docking bays depending if you are in a subcapital, capital or supercapital. Depending on the structure, there may be more than one of each. You cannot choose which one to undock from (for now at least).
  • There is no station interior. When you dock the scene is centered around the structure. Some information may be hidden (like the overview or ship modules) since technically you are not in a ship anymore. Since you're tethered it's easy to undock and then dock back up to get this information back.


Defense


  • Assuming direct control of the structure brings the overview and structure modules up, since you are now manning its defenses.
  • We're going to require proper user groups to assume direct control. They'll provide more flexibility than roles since groups can be defined for people outside your corporation or alliance. They'll have admins and managers, more on that at a later date.
  • You'll be able to set up groups to kick people out when assuming direct control - just in case that nasty spy is shooting on your own ships during a fleet battle.
  • You won't need to train Starbase Defense Management to assume direct control. One player will control all defenses at once. The Starbase Defense Management skill will be removed (and reimbursed) or properly refurbished when we remove Starbases.
  • New structures will not have automated defenses.
  • Rest of the defense mechanics are explained there.



Assets & Asset safety:


  • All citadels have infinite personal and corporation hangar capacity to fulfill their defense and housing role. This may not be the case for all the future structures however.
  • All citadels have asset safety feature. When it is destroyed, all assets are impounded. When impounded, players have to wait a minimum amount of time before being able to access them again.


There are 2 ways to recover impounded assets:

  1. Deliver to the same solar system: assets can be delivered locally if there are NPC stations or Citadels in the same solar system. Players will have to wait a minimum of 5 days before being able to deliver them.
  2. Deliver to another solar system: players will have to pay 15% of the total item value and wait a minimum of 20 days before being able to deliver them. Players cannot choose destination in that case. It will always be the top station in the closest low-security system if the destroyed Citadel was in null or low-security space. If the Citadel was in high-security space, it will be the closest high-security solar system. If there is a NPC station in the same solar system as the destroyed Citadel in high-security or low-security space this option is not available.


Further information on asset safety:


  • The timer starts counting down as soon as the structure is destroyed, no button needs to be pressed. This ensure players with lapsing accounts do not need to wait the full duration when coming back into the game.
  • We will automatically move items if no choice is set after 20 days. If there is a NPC station in the solar system, we will move them there. If there aren't, we will move them as discussed in option 2 above. This avoids players to build local ship caches in a null-security system that cannot be removed.
  • In case of remote delivery, the payment can be done on a one item basis for players not having enough cash to pay for the whole fee at once.
  • Current plan is to move capitals and supercapitals as well, so yes they can go to low-security NPC stations.
  • Citadels in wormhole spaces do not benefit from asset safety. All items are lost when the structure is destroyed there.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#8 - 2015-10-28 16:07:09 UTC
One thing I have not been able to find about citadels: How and what happens when you take them down. I don't mean destroy, I mean off-line, unanchor and scoop. It does not seem to be well covered in any blog or thread. (Just that during unanchoring, it is vulnerable).

What are the steps I would go through as the owner to take down my citadel?

How long does it take? Is the time different for different size structures, or different parts of space?

What happens to the modules, services, and rigs?

What happens to corp and player assets still in the citadel?

What happens to items on the market?

What happens to jobs in progress or in the queue?

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#9 - 2015-10-28 16:09:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Soldarius
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
I'm going to unpin the other structures threads and link them all here as we are running out of space in this forum subsection.


I'm not quite sure why, but I lol'd. Time to trim the fat?

CCP Ytterbium wrote:


  • Assuming direct control of the structure brings the overview and structure modules up, since you are now manning its defenses.
  • We're going to require proper user groups to assume direct control. They'll provide more flexibility than roles since groups can be defined for people outside your corporation or alliance. They'll have admins and managers, more on that on the item safety thread.
  • You'll be able to set up groups to kick people out when assuming direct control - just in case that nasty spy is shooting on your own ships during a fleet battle.
  • You won't need to train Starbase Defense Management to assume direct control. One player will control all defenses at once. The Starbase Defense Management skill will be removed (and reimbursed) or properly refurbished when we remove Starbases.
  • New structures will not have automated defenses.
  • Rest of the defense mechanics are explained there.

Yay for proper user groups! Does this mean a complete revamp of corporate roles, etc? It is also good that there is a way to forcibly remove a spy from shooting people with the citadel weapons.

I was inititially surpised that the Starbase Defense skill is being removed. But then again, with the defenses all becoming modules on the citadel, I guess it no longer makes any sense to have it. At least we are getting the SP back.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Anthar Thebess
#10 - 2015-10-28 16:21:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
There are 2 ways to recover impounded assets:

    Deliver to the same solar system: assets can be delivered locally if there are NPC stations or Citadels in the same solar system. Players will have to wait a minimum of 5 days before being able to deliver them.
    Deliver to another solar system: players will have to pay 15% of the total item value and wait a minimum of 20 days before being able to deliver them. Players cannot choose destination in that case. It will always be the top station in the closest low-security system if the destroyed Citadel was in null or low-security space. If the Citadel was in high-security space, it will be the closest high-security solar system. If there is a NPC station in the same solar system as the destroyed Citadel in high-security or low-security space this option is not available.


So if i understand this correctly.
I can have whole alliance to mine gather tons of base materials , on the most remote location i can find.
Then load it to a single citadel ( possibly the smallest/cheapest possible) destroy it and CCP will move it for small fee of 15% to nearest lowsec station?

For many places this will be cheaper than JF hauling (consider not only the fuel, but also time needed to move this stuff)
1 JF can move 32mil of tritanium?
Think about hundredths of millions liquid ozone, heavy water or strontium sitting all over null space.


To clarify one more thing.
You will not touch NPC stations in NPC space , including NPC nullsec? , sov nullsec ? ( yes we have also NPC stations there)
Murkar Omaristos
The Alabaster Albatross
Unreasonable Bastards
#11 - 2015-10-28 16:23:26 UTC
Quote:
There is no station interior.


So does this mean the captain's quarters is going bye-bye?
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#12 - 2015-10-28 16:30:49 UTC
BPO's


Are Outpost component BPO's being renamed and we keep research or

Will all the BPO's be new and bought at XX date and we have to research them all?

When will the new BPO's be available?
Sal Askiras
Pie Family Rock Farming INC
#13 - 2015-10-28 16:40:51 UTC
Murkar Omaristos wrote:
Quote:
There is no station interior.


So does this mean the captain's quarters is going bye-bye?


This just applies to Citadels. I imagine that NPC stations will still have captain's quarters (and they will still be pointless and useless)
Dutow Sa
Jupiter Fleet
#14 - 2015-10-28 16:43:40 UTC
I have a question about anchoring not answered yet in a previous thread:

From the Siege V2 blog, anchoring:

Quote:
The structure goes into a 24 hour invulnerability timer. No damage can be done during that time and the owner cannot cancel this action once it has been confirmed


This means that the structure


  • won't be usable for 24 hours
  • will be limited in the first 24 hours, some features working, some not (for example, I don't see a required module/rig for docking)
  • will be fully usable even during the first 24 hours


?

To clarify it: based on existing structures the first answer is correct, but either choice results in different mechanics than currently. When POSes will be removed (I don't know, if it will be the same date, or later?), a 24 hour long unusable timer will make currently used rapid deployment situations impossible. This includes bigger schemes like attacking null systems, and smaller ones like lowsec mining ops.

Also, if we are speaking about mining ops, what about the rorqual, and other fleet support ships, and tethering, will they be able to do it, or not?

And +1 for the recent item safety mechanics:

Quote:

We will automatically move items if no choice is set after 20 days. If there is a NPC station in the solar system, we will move them there. If there aren't, we will move them as discussed in option 2 above. This avoids players to build local ship caches in a null-security system that cannot be removed.


But I will still have to pay for them in case of remote delivery, right? So I don't have to pay for the choice, but for accessing a given item.
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#15 - 2015-10-28 17:39:12 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
I'm going to unpin the other structures threads and link them all here as we are running out of space in this forum subsection.


Thank you!

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.

Boson Dubstep
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
United Federation of Conifers
#16 - 2015-10-28 18:01:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Boson Dubstep
There are a couple of major issues with the citadels feature as I see it.

1) One of the most eagerly anticipated functions of citadels is the ability to dock supercaps in them. By limiting the ability to dock supers in anything but an XL CCP is limiting access to this awesome feature to a extremely select group of individuals, the namely the CFC.

By limiting the ability to dock to only the largest, and most inaccessable features, the majority of supers are still going to be coffins for their pilots. CCP should allow the docking of supers in large citadels, as well as extra larges, perhaps limiting the total number titans and supers docked, or some other mechanic.

2) By getting rid of the reinforcement timer, CCP is (unintentionally) encouraging people to not login. Let me explain...
I decide I just can't live without the QQY-JR Dyspro. My alliance is USTZ. The defending alliance is an AUTZ alliance. They set all of their vulns to prime AUTZ. I now must commit to at least two AUTZ ops to win the event. None of their players even bother logging in outside of AUTZ, as they know that nobody can **** with their **** outsize of a set block of hours.

Current system: They have their POS stronted for 36 hours, so that if I reinforce their **** in USTZ, I will have an AUTZ timer. Although I need to fight the defenders on their own terms to win the timer, I can reinforce it Thursday night in ustz, and use the weekend surge of people to make the autz timer. Everyone knows when the fight is gunna happen, and can plan their social life accordingly around it, which leads me to...

3)Many people are concerned how the introduction of citadels on tranquility will impact their ability to move their supers, especially once CCP starts to phase out POS. How this will impact someone who was on vacation or away from the game for a supermove op, and now has to make his way through the galaxy alone?

With the Poebe changes, what previously was a minor hassle is now one of the most challenging tasks you could possibly take on in eve. When people from the largest and most experienced supercap-capable alliances would rather unsub an account for 6 months and petition CCP for a move, then move 5 mids across eve, it makes me wonder if CCP dev's actually spend much time in supers on the live server, (and in the event that they do, if they have had the pleasure moving their super across new eden, which all but one group have now done multiple times.)

This issue will be only exacerbated by the new structure changes, making an incredibly tedious activity (solo moving supers) even less rewarding.
Dreldor
Local-Spike
Unforgiving.
#17 - 2015-10-28 18:57:29 UTC
Looking at the build layout for the Citadel structures it seems that a Medium Citadel does not require components for:

Station Factory
Station Laboratory
Station Mission Network
Station Reprocessing Plant
Structure Telescope Lens
Structure Acceleration Coils
Structure Advertisement Nexus

Does that mean that manufacturing, science, reprocessing etc are not available in a Medium Citadel?
Xeator
soldiers.fi
#18 - 2015-10-28 20:13:48 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:


There is no station interior. When you dock the scene is centered around the structure. Some information may be hidden (like the overview or ship modules) since technically you are not in a ship anymore. Since you're tethered it's easy to undock and then dock back up to get this information back.



So is there no interior only when tethered? Do normal subcaps still dock and get an interior?

Why not expand this sort of system to all stations though? With 3 modes, the current hangar view, captains quarters and an in space view?

One of the most annoying things when docked is that you have no idea what is happening outside. So I guess having no interior lets you see whats happening outside then?
Vyle Feelings
Nobody in Local
Of Sound Mind
#19 - 2015-10-28 21:03:13 UTC
What is the reason behind the lengthy delay in being able to retrieve impounded assets? Seems like this may discourage players from keeping all of their items in their home citadel. I know I'd be pretty miffed if I found out that my stuff was all tied up for 20 days while I wait for it to be delivered. You've already just lost your citadel, and now you can't even use your assets to rat/PvP/whatever to blow off steam.

Are there any plans to improve on the docking radius of stations to eliminate "kick" stations (station with very small dock radius such that shortly after undocking you are unable to dock again)? With these changes it's inevitable that someone's stuff is going to end up in a kick station in low or nullsec. It's not an insurmountable issue, but it'll make logistics out of an "impound station" a lot harder for people if that station is a kick, especially if its in a high traffic system. Seems a bit like kicking someone who's already down since they not only have to wait for the items, pay for them, but also then move them out of that station somehow.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#20 - 2015-10-28 21:22:16 UTC
Vyle Feelings wrote:
What is the reason behind the lengthy delay in being able to retrieve impounded assets? Seems like this may discourage players from keeping all of their items in their home citadel. I know I'd be pretty miffed if I found out that my stuff was all tied up for 20 days while I wait for it to be delivered. You've already just lost your citadel, and now you can't even use your assets to rat/PvP/whatever to blow off steam.

Are there any plans to improve on the docking radius of stations to eliminate "kick" stations (station with very small dock radius such that shortly after undocking you are unable to dock again)? With these changes it's inevitable that someone's stuff is going to end up in a kick station in low or nullsec. It's not an insurmountable issue, but it'll make logistics out of an "impound station" a lot harder for people if that station is a kick, especially if its in a high traffic system. Seems a bit like kicking someone who's already down since they not only have to wait for the items, pay for them, but also then move them out of that station somehow.



Kick wont' exist, you undock and are tethered for eternity until you do something to lose tethering
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