These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

MASS-PROTEST AGAINST EXPLORING THE CHARACTER BAZAAR & SKILL TRADING

First post First post
Author
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#281 - 2015-11-12 09:08:30 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
I could talk about other people's gameplay and experiences, but that's second-hand and hearsay.


Seems like a lazy way of excusing your refusal/inability to consider other player's situations, you've already demonstrated impressive ignorance regarding the financial/time constraints of other players and flippantly disregarded anyone who doesn't have an excess of either as "should they be playing a video game and should we make considerations for them?"

For every one of you and your 10 subscriptions, there's Goodness knows how many more people with just 1 or 2 that they may sub or grind/plex, you may think they have no business playing the game, but I think the game would suffer their loss more than yours, just on sheer numbers alone.
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#282 - 2015-11-12 09:09:55 UTC
There are two camps of people in EVE protests.

- People who don't care
- People who don't care about people who don't care.

I just don't care.

R.I.P. Vile Rat

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#283 - 2015-11-12 12:25:43 UTC
Ohhh I think I see now. These hypothetical players who don't have the spare time or funds, do they happen to find the time to post on eve-o?

I don't think they should be stricken from the game, I just don't think I should be without a thing on their behalf.
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#284 - 2015-11-12 15:33:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Portmanteau
Rain6637 wrote:
Ohhh I think I see now. These hypothetical players who don't have the spare time or funds, do they happen to find the time to post on eve-o?

I don't think they should be stricken from the game, I just don't think I should be without a thing on their behalf.


So you insinuate that they don't exist ? Gimme a break, plenty of people in this game have limited playtime for whatever reason and surely the amount of threads on plex prices is evidence that not everyone has "fat stacks". I'm not saying that TSPs and the have/have not divide they potentially could create is a bad thing because I am an egalitarian, I'm saying it because it's bad for business and because it's bad for player retention and gaining new players... that is bad for you and me... declining player base is bad.
Kotoko Hoshina
State War Academy
Caldari State
#285 - 2015-11-12 15:56:03 UTC
I think I should start selling tin foil hats in Jita. This might be good for my wallet.
Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
#286 - 2015-11-12 16:26:51 UTC
I'm just here to post in this thread...
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#287 - 2015-11-12 16:53:44 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:

So you insinuate that they don't exist ? Gimme a break, plenty of people in this game have limited playtime for whatever reason and surely the amount of threads on plex prices is evidence that not everyone has "fat stacks". I'm not saying that TSPs and the have/have not divide they potentially could create is a bad thing because I am an egalitarian, I'm saying it because it's bad for business and because it's bad for player retention and gaining new players... that is bad for you and me... declining player base is bad.

This post is a portmanteau of EVE memes and cliches.
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#288 - 2015-11-12 17:07:18 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:

So you insinuate that they don't exist ? Gimme a break, plenty of people in this game have limited playtime for whatever reason and surely the amount of threads on plex prices is evidence that not everyone has "fat stacks". I'm not saying that TSPs and the have/have not divide they potentially could create is a bad thing because I am an egalitarian, I'm saying it because it's bad for business and because it's bad for player retention and gaining new players... that is bad for you and me... declining player base is bad.

This post is a portmanteau of EVE memes and cliches.


Portmanteau =/= pastiche (I think that's the word you were looking for)

Not sure that CCP consider player retention, new customers, player demographics, fluctuation of subscription numbers or public perception management as clichés
Marsha Mallow
#289 - 2015-11-12 17:09:32 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
I'm not saying that TSPs and the have/have not divide they potentially could create is a bad thing because I am an egalitarian, I'm saying it because it's bad for business and because it's bad for player retention and gaining new players... that is bad for you and me... declining player base is bad.


This new thing—it is bad!


Quote:
So I've been playing EVE since before space even existed, well before China started farming WoW gold in the 1800s. It's always touched me in places I never expected. I often sit and think how much headway I could make in life if it wasn't for internet spaceships, but the ship spinning alone brings joy and meaning to my life. But then this new thing was introduced to the game. This new thing will completely break and ruin the game! In the past, I did the old thing in the old way, and that was fine. I did it, I was fine, and nothing went wrong. But now there's this new thing... why?!

There are many reasons why this new thing will break the game.

The equipment we farmed will have different value now.
The work we did will be easier or harder for subsequent people to do.
It is different.
It is not the same as it was before.
The way it was before is how I want it to remain.
It is new.
I don't like it.

These are just the things that come to mind after barely glancing through the first paragraph of the devpost. But, enough of that. CCPlease, can we please stop this new thing before it's too late? I can tell you all about why the new thing is bad. I did the old thing day in, day out, and I was better at it than all of you. I had Mastery VI of the old thing. If you think my being too used to the old thing is why I dislike the new thing, you are sadly mistaken! For I have like Mastery VIIXIV of the new thing, too. Even though it's new, I'm still better at it than all of you, even the people who are better at it than I am, and I've been better at it since before I was born. But, still, the old thing was better, and this new thing is bad, and wrong, and badly wrong.

Devs, CSMs, ISDs, OGBs, IPAs, please hear my pleas. This new thing will change the game from how it was before, and this cannot be allowed to happen. Stop, now. I know you'll listen to me, because you always listen to me—and only me—because we've known each other all our lives, even when we didn't know it. We used to do the thing (not the new thing, the old one) by the place, and you once told me, "Nez, your three semesters of Game Development at the community college give you more knowledge and experience than all of us together, and we'll let you veto any changes you don't like." Well, that didn't happen. You went behind my back, and you did it to my face.

Anyway. I'm not bitter, though I will unsubscribe my eleventy accounts at the drop of a hat if this thing isn't changed. I just want to be clear: I am basically the unofficial CSM chair with my dank skills, this new thing is bad, and the old thing is the only way that anything should ever be done.

P

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#290 - 2015-11-12 17:39:54 UTC
I did look out in Amarr for the OP and wished to join him in solidarity - I even went so far to make a cardboard sign saying "THIS IS BAD AND SHOULD BE STOPPED", and I was wearing nothing but soiled white Y-fronts.

I even looked at local comms for a second and a dribble of urine trickled down my leg. I was his perfect brother in arms, but FREELANCER117 was nowhere to be found :(

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#291 - 2015-11-12 21:21:06 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
I'm not saying that TSPs and the have/have not divide they potentially could create is a bad thing because I am an egalitarian, I'm saying it because it's bad for business and because it's bad for player retention and gaining new players... that is bad for you and me... declining player base is bad.


This new thing—it is bad!


Quote:
So I've been playing EVE since before space even existed, ....Lol

P


I get that you're making a joke and I like the joke, but it's funny because it's true about how people in MMOs react to change, but not so true about MMOs not making changes that shoot themselves in the foot. By the way I am like the worst ever audience member at a comedy show.. ever.
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#292 - 2015-11-12 21:22:40 UTC
double postage
Marsha Mallow
#293 - 2015-11-13 00:25:27 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
I get that you're making a joke and I like the joke, but it's funny because it's true about how people in MMOs react to change, but not so true about MMOs not making changes that shoot themselves in the foot. By the way I am like the worst ever audience member at a comedy show.. ever.

Yes, it has been noted that many of you are emotional wookies babbling on about irrelevant mechanics.

But anyway back to the sandbox.

Shall we just have a riot?

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Ashterothi
The Order of Thelemic Ascension
The Invited
#294 - 2015-11-13 01:39:17 UTC
Where do I go to protest the protesters?
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#295 - 2015-11-13 06:19:17 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Sib you should know I've personally run perfectly skilled and max boosted gangs for quite some time. I don't see anything wrong with it, and I think it's just good preparation.


I understand that (having known you for a while), but this is what I said:

Sibyyl wrote:
What you do with this feature isn't the concern. The concern is how this is a yet another tool, like SRP, to disincentivize smaller groups. The Blood Harvest event is a good indicator of what players are willing to do for SP. Unlike that event though, SP trading allows any large alliance to provide that SP faucet without any danger of PVP or external threats.


1. One could argue it takes more RL money to have as many accounts as you do. However, the option to do the same is open to someone who puts enough time into the game.

2. Combine #1 with diminishing returns from multiboxing, esp. with input multiplexing limits enforced late 2014. For a person like me who can't multibox at all (physiologically), having a lot of accounts isn't much of an advantage at all.

It's different for SP trading because there is no diminishing returns from having multiple SP mules. It's an endless stack of SP. This also means there is a breaking point where IRL money exceeds the capability of a player putting in time into the game to get the same thing.


Rain6637 wrote:
I don't think this is detrimental to a particular size group. Players are free to buy (with real money) or play harder to gain SP just like any other player.

How do you "play harder" to afford tens or hundreds of Skill Extractors?



Rain6637 wrote:
As for me, even with healthy SRP and, I dunno, 1.25 Billion SP spread across ten mains, I still regularly purchase six-packs of PLEX because I can't be assed. This point seems to convolute the distinction between SP packs being good or bad for small or large groups, but I think what it really means is there's no distinction to be made.

Seems like it's safe to say that having enough IRL money to afford to not care about earning ISK makes you less sympathetic to any argument based on players who can't afford to do these things. Of course *you* don't think SP Trading as pay-to-win is a problem. You're willing to cut a check because in-game grinding isn't worth your time.

(this is essentially the argument I'm reading)



Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#296 - 2015-11-13 06:21:03 UTC

I can see Marsha ignored the point-by-point response from me and goes for Portmanteau's jugular since he's in rant mode.

Figures. P

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#297 - 2015-11-13 07:14:08 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Of course *you* don't think SP Trading as pay-to-win is a problem. You're willing to cut a check because in-game grinding isn't worth your time.

You mean setting the skillqueue and then Jabber Onlining is in-game grinding?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Grog Barrel
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#298 - 2015-11-13 16:43:47 UTC
Hilmar, i thought with your diet and your overall change of look you were trying to somehow show us that you are not the same old space jew we knew in older debacles.

Or wait, I actually didn't think you'Ve changed in the slightest. You just exhausted the community by continuously poking the so called game core and after few years, you can probably finally also sell gold ammunition without any community resistance. You won,

































yet you lost.
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#299 - 2015-11-13 17:10:40 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:

I can see Marsha ignored the point-by-point response from me and goes for Portmanteau's jugular since he's in rant mode.

Figures. P



I'm hopped up on flu medication so i'm an easy mark tbfLol
Marsha Mallow
#300 - 2015-11-13 17:30:35 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
I can see Marsha ignored the point-by-point response from me and goes for Portmanteau's jugular since he's in rant mode.

Figures. P

Nah I take on board that your point by point summary has more detail elsewhere - I'm assuming in the SP devblog thread? Need to go through it and have a proper look at some point when I have time before replying to your post here (I stopped following it early on). You might be right and I haven't quite got what you're getting at. Also I'm still thinking about it. Sometimes these bigger topics are best left for a day or so to consider rather than getting tied in knots in a back-and-forth.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day