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MASS-PROTEST AGAINST EXPLORING THE CHARACTER BAZAAR & SKILL TRADING

First post First post
Author
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#241 - 2015-11-06 22:43:18 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Lysdahl wrote:
Someone is butthurt about not being able to make billions upon billions on the char bazaar :) I like the changes

I'm not, and the comments I'm seeing from other character traders in public look positive towards this too. The rest are keeping their mouths shut which suggests they're either rage posting in opposition from alts or whipping out the calculators and rubbing their grubby little paws together in glee. If this goes through players sat on lots of alts for trading purposes might cash out well. Or lose massively. They wouldn't be in this market if they didn't enjoy risky types of speculation - it's always been fairly volatile - so they're probably enjoying themselves either way.
Last I looked, there were maybe three or four WTBs in the first five pages of the Character Bazaar.

It seems like everyone is dumping alts right now for whatever reasons. Not sure exactly the implications of this, but I will say it's probably a good time for any new players reading this to grab some decent characters cheap. Probably a lot cheaper than making a comparable one after the SP packs come into the game.

More on topic, though. I've been known to dabble in the bazaar and have no problem whatsoever with the proposed changes. I don't think many character traders do who took the time to think things through. There's a good chance we'll see our profits actually increase.

Mr Epeen Cool
Evasive Shadow Assassin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#242 - 2015-11-06 23:10:47 UTC
When Sumone On EvE Says "Cry Harder" Or "Rage Much"

Simply Quote This In To Prove A Point.

Signs that your trolling is succesful and your target is infact, very angry and trys to turn it on you.

*Your victim screaming in all-caps at you.
*Personal attacks (Calling you a ******, idiot, etc).
*Being an Internet Tough Guy.
*Making a crude remark, before quickly logging off before you can retort.
*Threats against your ingame corp etc.
*Mercs war decking you non stop.

For you freelancer

Take a chill pill

Get off your pc

Go outside

Oh

And Grow Up :)
Marsha Mallow
#243 - 2015-11-06 23:38:56 UTC
Evasive Shadow Assassin wrote:
When Sumone On EvE Says "Cry Harder" Or "Rage Much"

Simply

There's an even simpler solution. Laugh in their faces and carry on with what you were doing - regardless of what they just said.
Wink at them too. Or sing. Sometimes they join in. Which is horrible tbf.
P

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#244 - 2015-11-07 07:07:11 UTC
Marsha, you know I love you right? I think you're responding only to the surface of the arguments. I've written in much more depth about each, but let me talk about my points in response to your counterarguments.

1. Why do I refer to SP mules? No, SP mules under the new system is not the same as grooming characters for the Bazaar. Why? Because all of us have secondary and tertiary alts on our accounts that need limited SP (gankers, traders, mission runners, you name it). Grooming a character means you don't get to utilize that alt (I can give you the reasons for it, but I suspect you can figure out what these reasons are).

SP mules on the other hand can continue to train SP which you can transfer out while you fully utilize these mules for the limited purposes you've built them for.

Just as the comparison to Character Bazaar is specious, so is this. SP mules aren't Groomed Character Bazaar alts. They're entirely different, because SPs come with no reputation, burden, or set configuration. The characters thus generating this burden-less SP are not restricted by what you can do with them while they train.


2. "Heavily slanted to new players" wasn't the point. An IRL rich player gets an SP advantage that literally has no ceiling. They can pour as much money as they want, to gain as much SP as they want. This is not a reality that exists in the current system. The current system has high SP characters available, sure, but the availability is not under the control of the player who wants the SP. The Bazaar is a product of activity by multiple players.

In the new system, the only entity that controls how many SP a player gains is their wallet. Nothing that another player does has any effect on that determination.

Pay to win? You betcha.


3. If you thinK SRP is the backbone of the stagnation of the game, why would you support another mechanic that strengths SRP? I don't get it.


4. Please talk to anyone who trains for AT and ask them why they'd do something like training Rigging skills to V. Tight fits are the name of the game. SP and AT are tied together, sorry.


5. People can't unbiomass alts and then "voltron" all their SP into their main. Again, this sort of blind comparison to Character Bazaar is apples to oranges.


6. Why would EVE players return to cash in on SP? Probably because plenty of them have said they'll do exactly this on reddit. Accounts and money are under considerable RMT lockdown. It's not to say it doesn't happen in significant quantities, but the current PLEX to ISK conversion makes it less likely today, and accounts being passed to another player are easy to track using various network detection methods.


7. Alliances don't give away characters to their newbies en masse. Alliances will give away SP anywhere and everywhere. If you can expound on how exactly RMT for this mechanism can be detected and stopped, I'm all ears. I certainly can't think of a way, without effort from CCP that they have no current ability to staff.


8. You're arguing for the Awox switch now? The rest of your point is essentially arguing that awoxing, corp theft, spying, and so on is no problem at all. It seems a bit like a disingenuous argument. Do you really believe that all the players who choose to do this stuff are ineffective and their gameplay has no real impact on anyone?


9. Having hung out on GD for as long as we have, how well do you think EVE players grasp that SP doesn't automatically mean winning?

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#245 - 2015-11-07 07:13:05 UTC

Marsha Mallow wrote:
Since I have 4 with 150m SP+ and 4 with 100 plus a few more mains


I'm officially scared of you.



Quote:
with less gutting them would mean losing massive amounts of SP in tax to reconfigure them into new alts. I can't speak for anyone else, but I suspect it's not just me with an attachment to characters I've had for a long time, so it's hard to judge exactly how many would cannibalise high SP alts.

If you're like any other parent, you will have favorites amongst all your kids. If you're not ultra-rich, then lesser accounts with more overall SP is better. It's sort of a no-brainer, isn't it?



Quote:
Certainly they might do with lower SP alts and move it across to their mains, and if that means they can cut their number of accounts I can't see a problem?

Sure, I'll concede this point especially after reading Quant's recent update. If lesser accounts translate to more activity then that's a great thing for EVE.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#246 - 2015-11-07 07:21:01 UTC

Doddy wrote:
Some pretty gigantic leaps you are taking.


I'd love to post a detailed response. Perhaps you can tell I'm not shy about the quantity of words in my responses.

However, I haven't taken any leaps for my assertions at all. I've described exactly where I've started and how I've arrived at my conclusions in the two posts linked in my sig.



It's completely your choice if you read them or not, of course.



You would also notice that in that same thread, I did not initially take the contra position just so I could understand each and every argument against this change. It helped refine the argument which arrives at the conclusions I've posted in this thread for the sake of brevity.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#247 - 2015-11-07 07:45:44 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Perhaps you can tell I'm not shy about the quantity of words in my responses.

However, I haven't taken any leaps for my assertions at all. I've described exactly where I've started and how I've arrived at my conclusions in the two posts linked in my sig.


Sibyyl you made it into my personal top ten of people I do not dislike. Big smile

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.

Tanthos
Tanthos Corp
#248 - 2015-11-07 10:18:57 UTC
N00B-SAIB0T wrote:


Personally I like it. I have a character that's kind of all over the place, skill-wise. It was my first character so I wasted a lot of SP's experimenting with a lot of different activities that I regret now. I'm thinking I might just harvest that character to nothing and then biomass it.


I'm the same, and that's an excellent suggestion.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#249 - 2015-11-09 18:50:26 UTC
So, did we stop exploding the character bazaar? I hear it has a fragile ecosystem that should no be disturbed

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Dagnar
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#250 - 2015-11-09 19:00:30 UTC
When is this going live? I want to buy some skill point packs asap.
N00B-SAIB0T
MK Financial
#251 - 2015-11-09 22:51:57 UTC  |  Edited by: N00B-SAIB0T
Tanthos wrote:
N00B-SAIB0T wrote:


Personally I like it. I have a character that's kind of all over the place, skill-wise. It was my first character so I wasted a lot of SP's experimenting with a lot of different activities that I regret now. I'm thinking I might just harvest that character to nothing and then biomass it.


I'm the same, and that's an excellent suggestion.


It's a great idea. It beats being low balled on the Character Bazaar any day.

Dagnar wrote:
When is this going live? I want to buy some skill point packs asap.


Can't come soon enough. I have a character with 41 million SPs waiting to be harvested to nothing.
Rain6637
Simulacra and Simulation
Dracarys.
#252 - 2015-11-10 04:37:49 UTC
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#253 - 2015-11-10 06:13:26 UTC

Yeah we get it, Rain. You've reached a point of apathy where you've left behind the spirit of discussion you used to engage in.

What's really odd is the amount of energy you put in to expressing how little you care.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#254 - 2015-11-10 07:36:25 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Evasive Shadow Assassin wrote:
When Sumone On EvE Says "Cry Harder" Or "Rage Much"

Simply

There's an even simpler solution. Laugh in their faces and carry on with what you were doing - regardless of what they just said.
Wink at them too. Or sing. Sometimes they join in. Which is horrible tbf.
P


Couldnt have been worse than that time 200 people tried to sing happy birthday over our TS. Lets just say it wasnt exactly TOTP material.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome

Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#255 - 2015-11-10 09:34:17 UTC
*literally* can't wait for all the 'CCP ... do something about price of TSPS' threads in general discussion Roll
Frederick Reisen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#256 - 2015-11-10 13:44:20 UTC
You know what, here is the thing, started playing 3 months ago almost to the day two accounts. I don't need the packets later I need them now. I am training battleship skills on one account and procurer on the other. It will take me at least a couple more months before I can even expect to survive in nulsec given I have no experience. Who in their right mind would train for 5 months and grind out farming ore in hisec, boring. I tried it, its not worth my time mining in hisec. Everyday I log on just to look at my skills trade window, boring. This is precisely what has hindered people from joining the game. I am retired so I have the time and the patience to wait. I am a convertee from playing wow since release. For most people its just not worth the wait. So limit the packets for the newbies to at least get them to start playing within 3 months, period. Leave everyone else OUT!! Have a good day
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#257 - 2015-11-10 13:59:49 UTC
Frederick Reisen wrote:
You know what, here is the thing, started playing 3 months ago almost to the day two accounts. I don't need the packets later I need them now. I am training battleship skills on one account and procurer on the other.
I agree that new guys could use faster SP, just think this way will exclude many and is a poor way of achieving that.

Quote:
It will take me at least a couple more months before I can even expect to survive in nulsec given I have no experience.
This is simply untrue. Check Karmafleet, Brave Newbies, Pandemic Horde.

Quote:
Everyday I log on just to look at my skills trade window, boring. This is precisely what has hindered people from joining the game.
No it hasn't, the game's been going since 2003, that's a long to time to survive in the MMO market if you can't attract new subs.

Quote:
I am retired so I have the time and the patience to wait. I am a convertee from playing wow since release. For most people its just not worth the wait. So limit the packets for the newbies to at least get them to start playing within 3 months, period. Leave everyone else OUT!! Have a good day
Again I have to stress the only thing stopping you playing the game before 3 months training is you. As I said, I agree that faster access to ship/modules would be good for new player retention due to the perception new guys often have about the "skill gap" but is is an incorrect perception, you can join any number of newbie friendly corps in all areas of the game. I appreciate that perception often trumps reality when attracting new players so I'm fine with increasing training speed, losing attributes, anything that won't cost extra R/L money. I am not ok with replacing that perception with a new one that "you have to pay CCP for skill packets to progress in the game"... that would be very damaging.
Rain6637
Simulacra and Simulation
Dracarys.
#258 - 2015-11-10 14:03:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
Sibyyl wrote:

Yeah we get it, Rain. You've reached a point of apathy where you've left behind the spirit of discussion you used to engage in.

What's really odd is the amount of energy you put in to expressing how little you care.


Sib, I love you and we should be married.

It was just a joke that I thought deserved to be made, image and all. My personal attitude toward all this SP stuff is neutral. I've suffered the skill trains and if this new system works out for newer players, I'm okay with that.

The SP consumption mechanic is hardly motivating to me, either. It's just too inefficient. But I can imagine there are players who will need cyno alts in a hurry, or have other low SP requirements that aren't as lossy.

The characters in the bazaar still have their market with typically larger sums of SP. If you need a cyno alt, or want Covops V in a hurry, you use skill point inject pack things. If you need a capable triage carrier pilot in a hurry, you head to the bazaar.

Love you. XOXO

Poasted from my ipod nano
Bobb Bobbington
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#259 - 2015-11-10 14:08:46 UTC
Frederick Reisen wrote:
You know what, here is the thing, started playing 3 months ago almost to the day two accounts. I don't need the packets later I need them now. I am training battleship skills on one account and procurer on the other. It will take me at least a couple more months before I can even expect to survive in nulsec given I have no experience. Who in their right mind would train for 5 months and grind out farming ore in hisec, boring. I tried it, its not worth my time mining in hisec. Everyday I log on just to look at my skills trade window, boring. This is precisely what has hindered people from joining the game. I am retired so I have the time and the patience to wait. I am a convertee from playing wow since release. For most people its just not worth the wait. So limit the packets for the newbies to at least get them to start playing within 3 months, period. Leave everyone else OUT!! Have a good day


You have to realize, bigger is NOT better. It can be, but usually not, especially if you're new. If you train straight for battleships you'll work to get enough isk for one, wait for a few months get it optimal, and then lose it the moment you take it out because you've never actually run missons or anomalies before.

My advice, train for a cruiser and a scanning frigate, don't bother getting them "optimal" (basically train most skills to level 4 and ignore getting level 5s yet), scan down DeD 3s (you might have to *gasp* do some research here), and run them. You'll get some isk and have some fun playing the Eve RNG lottery. After that, maybe, just maybe you can start stepping up into larger ships if you really really really feel the need to.

Eve is about getting kicked in the dirt, spat on, and then shoved in a pit and having to claw your way out to victory. It's whole niche is being a hard, complicated game for those who like things like that. If you can't stand waiting a few weeks for something, you'll probably despise the rest of the game too.

Newbies can play the game fairly easily within a week, as long as you don't train for something really far off. They can be useful within a day in PvP as cheap tackle for fleets, they can run hideaways and refugees in destroyers within a few days. It is supposed to be hard to get on your feet when you first start out.

This is a signature.

It has a 25m signature.

No it's not a cosmic signature.

Probably.

Btw my corp's recruiting.

Natural420
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#260 - 2015-11-10 15:04:33 UTC
This new Character skill trading idea sounds great. Now I can dissolve my alts and boost my main !