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TSP is just a money grab, nothing more nothing less. To say other wise is just insulting there player base.

If they cannot be traded they are unavailable with in game means.

And as stated either is preferential to being unavailable. Allow me to explicitly add: "with in game effort" since apparently that needs to be spelled out as well.

Do you always go for the most pants on head interpretation of things said to you?

Edit: To your additions, Not scammable isn't a benefit as it's an avenue for even those without in game means to potentially obtain them, removing even cost as a factor for the clever.

No change in price is simply a non change - if they won't change the price of packets why would they change extractors. RL expense is maintained. ANY price in game is still better than none.

Availability/demand - Highly unlikely unless those alliances do something they've never done before, constrain the supply of a resource that literally every character over 5mill SP could produce.

Loss while moving - The only actual "benefit" here, and only if you consider the concept of forced transfers of ownership a bad thing for items in game or think these should be above the rules.

Oh, I am all for that, as are many others. But CCP has been reluctant to do this and only made minor changes (a slight bump in starting SP).

On the economics side, I think CCP actually need to earn more money in order to be(come) profitable (again). That's speculation since they do not (have to) publish their annual report anymore ever since they bought back the bond they once issued. The reason I bring this up is that I think suggesting that CCP are greedy moneygrabbers is mistaken. I believe it to be more about finding a better survival strategy, really.

There you go again with the drama, also please state your sources.

Even if:

People who grind PVE hardly play a single MMO that long, they move on to the next grind game so EVE still holding them for that long is actually quite good. And then the 10% who remain for more than 4 years (again, assuming those numbers are correct) that's pretty good for a niche product. Show me a recent MMO that has those stats.

You keep spouting those numbers as if they're bad, they're not. They're actually really good. And your end conclusion on F2P is just as silly and mistaken as your assessment of those numbers. It's not like your agenda is showing or anything.

Or CCP could focus on creating a game that centralized on both PVE and PVPers instead of just pure PVPer who whined because everyone is doing PVE. If CCP begins updating Lev 4's for example and fix the empire LP stores then I believe the PCU would make a rebound back up to 2013 levels.

Ok, now think of all the sub based MMO's you've ever tried (if your count doesn't get beyond 5 you're lacking so much experience and understanding on MMOs you should probably stay out of this discussion altogether). Of those, how many do you still play after 2 years. I bet you don't get to 40% which means that EVE does, on average, better. It's the same for 4 years and 10%, I BET that you don't still play 10% of all the sub based MMOs you once tried.

EVE's retention numbers are FINE, they're in fact really good. There's nothing wrong with someone, or a majority of people, not liking a product simply because the product isn't aimed at them. This whole "must be liked by more people" is the same hilariously ****** logic as "companies always much grow bigger" nonsense people keep yapping about, guess what brought us the economy crash. Companies that didn't fall for that hype "must expand, lets borrow money to grow!" silliness still did and do fine after 2008, because they didn't fall for idiot logic and kept doing business in a smart way.

EVE is a niche product, always has been, and that's what it should stay because that's the only way it's going to do well. People who cannot understand that logic should stop trying to type :words: in threads like these.

They're losing subs for many reasons:

- pvp minded players slowly stop trusting CCP to keep this a PVP centric game
- newer PVE players who got pulled in start to realise that as a pure PVE game EVE is very limited, they want continued content upgrades
- SOV/0.0 related changes taking too long
- people have less alts due to jump drive changes
- war on botting

EVE was bloated based on the hype that came past Incarnage, EVE's resurgence pulled in many folks, they tried hard to get more new players in regardless of their play style and they lured with PVE and dumbed down mechanics. Those people simply stopped bothering and moved on for various reason, one being that EVE just can't offer what more PVE centric grind/content MMOs can but also because... they just move on to something new.

So we're back to 2009ish PCU, how is that a problem? Does this mean that CCP is going to get in trouble for that with manpower etc, yes it will but frankly I don't see a problem in that. They have a bunch of extra projects and hired a ton of people to make EVE more palatable to the "average player", but I care about EVE not the extra projects and EVE is not meant for the average player so you can cut that away and EVE will do JUST FINE.

They just keeping putting themselves in situations where the obvious short term solution seems to be to butcher the goose that lays the golden eggs. And then they even contemplate doing it....


You pull people in by giving them a clear idea of what they're getting in to, being proud of being niche is good especially so if there's really no competition. You keep them playing by making sure you weren't lying when you did that and uphold the premise and core concepts of the game.

Whilst i agree with most of what you say, EvE was never or can't ever be pure PVP, however small the PVE content maybe it's a transitional barrier for a lot of players and the only thing for others. Without this catchment mechanism you wouldn't have people diversifying into PVP. A game can be based around content created by the developers - But pure PVP content can only be created by the masses.

Games today are created by a principal dev's refer to as " Easy to learn - Harder to master" We don't have that luxury in eve as it doesn't apply anyway you try to fit it.

Our intro to eve, though much improved on doesn't instill a feeling you've achieved anything when you have completed it because the points have already been applied to your character with no effort.
If the NPE was started with your character having zero skill points, In a basic ship and each part rewarded you with skillpoints being automatically added to there respective sections and the modules that are needed being fitted to said ship for the next part your actually seeing what is happening and will gain a sense reward for your effort. It doesn't make any difference what so ever practically, psychologically rewarding though. The same when you reach the end of it , having a bumper reward of say 1 million skill points and have some way of how it could be spent to further a chosen career path or better on subbing their first month give them 1 to 1.5 mill skill points.

You can have change without destroying something, but without diversity things only stagnate. A liitle give and take in the beginning of the eve experience may make alot of difference to how they view continuing there experience further.

Oh no, never said the game should be 100% PVP, that would be silly, but what has been happening the past few years is that CCP tried to make EVE more mainstream because they wanted more players. The only way to do that is to move away from its niche where the game is very competitive and requires (brain) effort to get stuff done and turn it into something much easier. More protection, more hand holding, easier mechanics.

And they did indeed attracts more players and a few years later these new players start to rally for the stuff they're so used to in other MMOs: P2W, P2Advance, "more pve content", instant lvl 60 characters. A bunch of them are posting in this thread. They're also the players who sit in their massive 0.0 alliances being bored to **** because any personal initiative or thought is just not going to happen. Actual pvpers would break free from that and create some havoc of their own and by doing so create content and enjoy themselves. Instead they just sit there grinding to their next Supercap and creating alts to hide behind, be in CODE and shoot at people who won't shoot back. So PVE itself is fine, it's more about the mind set of the player.

CCP lured in the mainstream player and anyone who has a working brain expected this backlash because EVE simply can't deliver what those are looking for. And in the effort to appease to that type of player they made the game worse for the customers it already had. And now, in a final frantic attempt, they simply look at WOW's account management options and try to copy what they see there: instant lvl 60 char, so they try and translate that to EVE. Buying SP.

The lower PCU is fine. The game doesn't somehow magically become more fun or better to play if we'd have a PCU of 60K instead of the 30 we have atm. People are just using this opportunity to try and gain ground for their hilariously obvious and ****** ideas, using "it would be better for the game" or "we'd have more players" as excuses to try and make their brain farts sound valid.

We were on about a way to get players interested more / convert from trial, not using the fleece the current player base more approach.
Yours are expensive to aren't they, most are basing figures for 1 plex = 4 TSP / 7.5 days 500k x 4 = 30 days + extractor cost
if thats 1 plex for the extractor to theyre going to be silly money