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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

First post First post First post
Author
Kelby
#201 - 2015-10-15 16:44:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Kelby
This is an insanely bad idea.

Edit: The only constructive comment I would have is to perhaps limit the amount of SP that could be purchased in this manner to 5mil SP per year.
Jessica Danikov
Network Danikov
#202 - 2015-10-15 16:44:36 UTC
Real missed opportunity here: in-keeping with full character transfers, why not have a Brain Overlay eXtractor, or BOX, which, when applied to a character, removes ALL their skills and gives you a Brain in a BOX, which can then be traded and ultimately applied to a character to replace their skills entirely with the ones in the BOX.

Voila, character transfers, EVE style, without the pesky name problem.
Leppales Beddelver
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#203 - 2015-10-15 16:44:52 UTC
You're joking right? This is a terrible idea.
Titus Tallang
EVE University
Ivy League
#204 - 2015-10-15 16:45:15 UTC
This makes new players feel like they are forced into (or at least strongly incentivized to) purchase SP, likely for PLEXed ISK considering their average in-game income, in order to become competitive.

I feel like this would be a terrible thing for new player retention. Nothing kills the "grim-dark cutthroat universe" hook quite as quickly as "give us money and be so much stronger right away". Regardless of whether this would hold true objectively, which you could argue - subjective impression is what matters, and it would be bad.

Director of Education - EVE University - http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/

Miss Reyana Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#205 - 2015-10-15 16:45:57 UTC
Really bad bad idea. Please don't do this!
Esnaelc Sin'led
Les Petits Pedestres
Toilet Paper.
#206 - 2015-10-15 16:46:14 UTC
What if the extraction system was giving SP allocated ONLY in the same category of skill ?

Let's say you have all gunnerie for Lasorz, but you only fly matars (just example, it might sound stupid).
You chose to extract all thjose Lazors skills.
But once you chose to sell them to another player, he will only be able to allocate those SP in "Gunnery", not Armor, nore Shield, neither Missiles.
Captain Africa
GRIM MARCH
#207 - 2015-10-15 16:46:15 UTC
I have 5 accounts active , haven't touched the game for nearly a year ...but i just had to log in after reading this. You must be fukken kidding me ....right ? NO!
Orions Lord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#208 - 2015-10-15 16:46:17 UTC
All above
strumpel
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#209 - 2015-10-15 16:46:52 UTC
no, thank you
Raphendyr Nardieu
Avanto
Hole Control
#210 - 2015-10-15 16:46:58 UTC
I don't know if this is good or not (I want more iteration around the idea before deciding)..


Could the "unallocated" be more restricted? For example limit unallocated SP to specific groups or skills (groups could work a bit better). So if I extract 500k from Engineering it would create Engineering skillpack and so on.

This would make it impossible to transferring science skills to combat. It also would mean that choices still matter as if you trained useless skills, those would cost less in the market.

Also I would go with function that calculates how much SP is thrown away at different SP amounts.. So you would get always a bit less SP when your SP amount is 30M than 25M.
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#211 - 2015-10-15 16:47:12 UTC
I have removed an ASCII art post.

Quote:
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Spam is defined as the repetitive posting of the same topic or nonsensical post that has no substance and is often designed to annoy other forum users. This can include the words “first”, “go back to (insert other game name)” and other such posts that contribute no value to forum discussion. Spamming also includes the posting of ASCII art within a forum post, or the practice of “thread necromancy” which involved bumping of old threads for no justifiable reason.

ISD Decoy

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Kenrailae
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#212 - 2015-10-15 16:47:29 UTC
Been discussing with peeps.



ONLY way this seems to be possible sans massive abuse, based on the discussions I've seen is to set a fixed limit on number of SP transactions OR SP values, either SP going in or coming out, per set time frame, similar to remaps.



Not saying I'm a huge fan of the idea... but I can understand some of the thought behind it. I would further draw a hard limit on 100mil/120mil SP+ being unable to gain SP from this.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Broggo Yimmix
Purgatory Reach
#213 - 2015-10-15 16:47:53 UTC
Bad idea CCP.

This looks alot like a pay to win scenario. Also it means people can do whatever with their characters and it doesn't change their value. High sec gank till you're as low as you can go then part out the toon > rinse and repeat; Awox to your hearts content then part out the toon and use the funds to start all over. It removes the lasting effects of a players actions and makes truly disposable toons of Value.

I don't mind the consmetic part of the store, but this is an apocalyptically bad decision. It makes monocle gate look positive in comparison.
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#214 - 2015-10-15 16:48:26 UTC
From the company that brought you Sov Wanding, now, pay to win skill system.

Stay tuned next week for the introduction of unicorns...pay to win unicorns!
Marsha Mallow
#215 - 2015-10-15 16:48:39 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
and last but not least having SP and winning are two different things.

Indeed

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#216 - 2015-10-15 16:50:00 UTC
Alt Pilot1 wrote:
Incurso wrote:
I don't get all the hate EVE already has a pay to win option. Anyone with to much real life money and not enough brains or patience can drop several hundred dollars on a bought toon then a pile of PLEX. You may or may not figure out how to play well but you can go from zero to high skill and high end ships with out ever undocking once and in a few hours.

I assume it doesn't happen much because you have to pay ALOT to win.

IDEA: If this happens can we get some sort of slop bucket to train points we intend to sell? I have no interest in capital ships and I'm nearly max SP on the things I want. I would trade SP for ISK. I just don't want to give up the stuff I have now.



I think because Eve has too much E-Peen.

A lot of older players want to be forever above the younger players, and don't want them to catch up that quickly.

This new SP transfer system can be really good for Eve Online in the long run. It'll make it more noob friendly.


Famous last words.
Robert Warner
Back Door Burglars
#217 - 2015-10-15 16:50:14 UTC
CCP Logibro wrote:
[img]http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68656/1/skilltrade1_550.jpg[/img]
The Character Bazaar has been around for a while, allowing enterprising players to buy and sell characters from others. Lately, we've been exploring some new ideas around improving it, but ultimately realized that our effort was better spent investigating a similar idea: skill trading. This is a pretty big thing, so make sure you read the entire dev blog, and let us know what you think of the ideas inside.


While many of my compatriots will likely shun any notion of trading skill points, I must say the idea doesn't bother me (and yes I'm a player who has multiple characters over or approaching 200M SP). I don't mind certain ingrained mechanics being changed provided there is a rational reason behind it and that the solution is well conceived and well implemented (take note Fozzie sov).

My main concern is in pricing of the packet itself in Aurum: we are already developing a serious issue with the price of PLEX and without being a doomsayer, the game has lost 25% of its active player base since February of this year (source: Eve-offline.net) - an extraordinary statistic by any reckoning. My primary interest is seeing a recovery in player activity, for the good of both myself and the Developer.

While I'm sure CCP's accountants are eyeing this as a financial opportunity, I would very strongly suggest extreme caution in the introduction of further micro-transactions based on the PLEX/Aurum model at this time. Eve is currently in a very delicate position, following a number of somewhat dubious design changes, now requiring substantial time and investment to repair. If the game world loses critical mass of players, it may 'fail cascade' very quickly.

If such a feature really must be introduced within the next year, careful planning of pricing will be required to ensure no further stress is placed on the transferable game time market.
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#218 - 2015-10-15 16:50:29 UTC
Winter Archipelago wrote:
...

Here's a quick scenario: My industry alts, already fully trained, are no longer training. I start training them again. They never leave their station, so a pair of +5's along with Min / Max'ed attributes on a large skill or three means I can pump out 2700 SP per hour in perfect safety. In 8 days, I've already pumped out over 500k SP (518,400). Drain the SP, sell for a profit, repeat.

There's no risk involved. I'm not losing any SP because the characters aren't training any more. They have the necessary skills at the necessary levels and never undock. There's zero risk and I'm not making a single sacrifice.
...


This is the first argument against that resonates for me. You can, with zero risk, have a never-ending stream of 5M SP cyno alts, potentially on a daily basis. Tracking of neutrals relative to who they're scouting for wouldn't be possible.

Additionally, the cost of this "perfect" +5 safe training is lower than offspec training, even beyond 5M SP. (Training speed is affected by more than 20% relative to optimal for an off-spec train).


Maybe, as part of a character transfer, 20% of the transferred character's SP are destroyed, and instead turned into 15% unallocated skillpoints, to let the buyer add some of their own "flavor" to the character?

I also really like the name change idea, but to show former aliases and have the old names be searchable in the same way. A link to the old name should land you on the character's new name, through any chain of renames.
Alex Villiana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#219 - 2015-10-15 16:50:41 UTC
I think this is a terrible idea that comes dangerously close to Pay2Win (or even just the perception thereof).

The current system with the character bazaar may be acceptable exactly because of its poor discoverability and lack of ease of use. Noobs can be noobs without feeling that they need to buy 50 plex to buy a decent character.

Noobs are already often advised not set farming ISK to PLEX their account as a goal for their first month(s) and to rather enjoy the game as a game (not a second job). Under the propsed system, noobs may be made to feel that they need to farm ISK for both PLEX and SP, which will make for a terrible gameplay experience.
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#220 - 2015-10-15 16:50:48 UTC
I said this before and I will say it again. This is as close as it gets to pay to win.
FotM and all bad things just enhance this into a super bad idea.

I will survive if this goes through but the backlash of players will be baaaaaaaad.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.