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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#5621 - 2015-11-12 21:11:49 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
I think all this talk of new player experience is a bit of a red herring

Given that 1 plex = 1 x Transneural Skill Extractor (harvests 500K SP) = 1 x Transneural Skill Packet (Gives 500K or less)

Now, Once the extra SP has been burnt off from all the redundant Bot-toons and unwanted skills (?) the market will settle into the farmed value of SP. Unless you have reached the peak of your chosen path in which case you could feasibly farm you main toon without a multiple training cert - the cost of producing these packets would be about:

1 Plex for Multiple Training (1.5 million SP a month training up the cheap books dropped from sites)
3 plex to convert into skill packets

You get the equivalent of 10 days training for the ISK value of about 1.5 PLEX (inc a little markup)

A New player with a few SP already under the belt wanting to get into a Cloaky-Scany-Hacky covert frigate required to join a noob friendly WH corp [Electronics Upgrades, Covert Ops, Astrometric Rangefinding, Astrometrics, Survey, Archaeology & Hacking
Hacking ]

Take little over 30days ($12 subscription) or if you want to do it instantly about $48 over what you are already paying.
That's not new player friendly - Most would wait 30-40days & get put off thinking that it is going to cost more & more to train the bigger & better stuff

I could see most of them being purchased by mid range characters, Those who can afford occasionally to spend the ISK but that's not cash-Plex and the only thing that will do is force the ISK price of PLEX up making players drop 2nd accounts.

With plex inflation one of the goals I've heard most about from new players is PlEXing a 2nd account - That goal gets harder to achieve.

We were on about a way to get players interested more / convert from trial, not using the fleece the current player base more approach.
Yours are expensive to aren't they, most are basing figures for 1 plex = 4 TSP / 7.5 days 500k x 4 = 30 days + extractor cost
if thats 1 plex for the extractor to theyre going to be silly money Shocked


The blog says
A Transneural Skill Packet is created by extracting some of your trained skills and combining them with a ‘Transneural Skill Extractor’ which can be purchased in the New Eden Store for Aurum (The Transneural Skill Extractor is analogous to the PLEX service fee in the character bazaar).Both Transneural Skill Extractors and Transneural Skill Packets can be freely traded on the market for ISK

I read it as I plex = 1 TSP -
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5622 - 2015-11-12 21:16:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Levi Belvar wrote:
We were on about a way to get players interested more / convert from trial, not using the fleece the current player base more approach.
Yours are expensive to aren't they, most are basing figures for 1 plex = 4 TSP / 7.5 days 500k x 4 = 30 days + extractor cost
if thats 1 plex for the extractor to theyre going to be silly money Shocked
Some of us are of the opinion 1 plex = 4 TSP is still crazy expensive (at that rate we're being double charged for the SP being transfered). Consider selling a 5m SP toon is roughly equivalent to 700 AUR for every 500k SP (That's 5 TSPs/PLEX). That's low end on the character bazaar and IMHO not a good place for balancing the 2 features if accessibility is a goal.

I'd be willing to take back anything I said about this being more than a money grab were they priced like that.

100AUR or there about should be fine, the low price incentivizes breaking up lower SP characters into packets rather than selling whole and as such helps incentivize more supply on the market vs the Bazaar, which in turn should make the market that much harder to monopolize.

Iowa Banshee wrote:
The blog says
A Transneural Skill Packet is created by extracting some of your trained skills and combining them with a ‘Transneural Skill Extractor’ which can be purchased in the New Eden Store for Aurum (The Transneural Skill Extractor is analogous to the PLEX service fee in the character bazaar).Both Transneural Skill Extractors and Transneural Skill Packets can be freely traded on the market for ISK

I read it as I plex = 1 TSP -
"Analogous to" != equivalent in cost.

As I read this, what's being given is the rationale for charging AUR, not a statement of actual cost expectation.
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#5623 - 2015-11-12 21:29:21 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:

if thats 1 plex for the extractor to theyre going to be silly money Shocked


This whole thread will seem pretty redundant if that is the case, almost nobody with use them, massive CCP trollage Lol
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5624 - 2015-11-12 22:26:02 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
We were on about a way to get players interested more / convert from trial, not using the fleece the current player base more approach.
Yours are expensive to aren't they, most are basing figures for 1 plex = 4 TSP / 7.5 days 500k x 4 = 30 days + extractor cost
if thats 1 plex for the extractor to theyre going to be silly money Shocked
Some of us are of the opinion 1 plex = 4 TSP is still crazy expensive (at that rate we're being double charged for the SP being transfered). Consider selling a 5m SP toon is roughly equivalent to 700 AUR for every 500k SP (That's 5 TSPs/PLEX). That's low end on the character bazaar and IMHO not a good place for balancing the 2 features if accessibility is a goal.

I'd be willing to take back anything I said about this being more than a money grab were they priced like that.

100AUR or there about should be fine, the low price incentivizes breaking up lower SP characters into packets rather than selling whole and as such helps incentivize more supply on the market vs the Bazaar, which in turn should make the market that much harder to monopolize.

At the moment a plex is 1.2 bill and 30 days of Optimized training returns just under 2 mill skill points @500k = 300 mill + extractor cost for 1 TSP.

Can you break it down any other way ???

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5625 - 2015-11-12 22:35:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Levi Belvar wrote:
At the moment a plex is 1.2 bill and 30 days of Optimized training returns just under 2 mill skill points @500k = 300 mill + extractor cost for 1 TSP.

Can you break it down any other way ???
Made a mistake. Iowa Banshee made the relation of 1 TSP as being = to1 PLEX, and I mentally translated that to extractor rather than TSP in error (since TSPs have no reason to have that price as you point out or any explicit price at all). I carried that mistake on to your post as well, responding as if you were talking about extractors rather than TSPs.

That was all my mistake. Your numbers are fine.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5626 - 2015-11-12 22:40:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Levi Belvar
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
At the moment a plex is 1.2 bill and 30 days of Optimized training returns just under 2 mill skill points @500k = 300 mill + extractor cost for 1 TSP.

Can you break it down any other way ???
Made a mistake. Iowa Banshee made the relation of 1 TSP as being = to1 PLEX, and I mentally translated that to extractor rather than TSP in error (since TSPs have no reason to have that price as you point out or any explicit price at all). I carried that mistake on to your post as well, responding as if you were talking about extractors rather than TSPs.

That was all my mistake. Your numbers are fine.

Those figures are all based on current prices with the unknown extractor cost and the skill points having been trained in real time, so we could assume that the seller is also wanting to make a profit on the fact that someone is going to be able to instantly add 7.5 days of training per packet . If its been optimally trained - say someones only been getting 1.5 mill per month or they say they have only been getting 1.5, that then transfer to 400m per 500k.

They wont need to worry about bots in game when this launches, we'll have matrix style capsuleer farms and who will be in the best place to take advantage of implementing these i wonder Roll

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#5627 - 2015-11-13 07:17:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Portmanteau wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
if thats 1 plex for the extractor to theyre going to be silly money Shocked

This whole thread will seem pretty redundant if that is the case, almost nobody with use them, massive CCP trollage Lol

And then it can go the way of teams. A lot of people would love that right?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Zakks
CSR NAVY
Citizen's Star Republic
#5628 - 2015-11-13 07:53:32 UTC
Will the skill packets be a tradeable item? Contracts too?
Don't like the idea of either, tbh...
Furyan Vakko
Pizza Delivery Express
#5629 - 2015-11-13 10:18:08 UTC
Any ideas on when this is coming to Eve ?
Nometh Xergent
#5630 - 2015-11-13 11:08:21 UTC
This would destroy the game for new player, since time is really something important in eve, it is the only thing that is making this game stand out from any other ****-mmo that comes up every year and crashes the next. Time is everything, and time is eve. Serious-lee now, for the love of bruce, just dont.

“I’ve always loathed the necessity of sleep. Like death, it puts even the most powerful men on their backs.”
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#5631 - 2015-11-13 11:23:10 UTC
Furyan Vakko wrote:
Any ideas on when this is coming to Eve ?

~1 year before they shutdown the servers

Evil RatKid
YouAreMyBounty Sarn
Easy Squeezy Lemon Cheesy
#5632 - 2015-11-13 12:24:39 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
We were on about a way to get players interested more / convert from trial, not using the fleece the current player base more approach.
Yours are expensive to aren't they, most are basing figures for 1 plex = 4 TSP / 7.5 days 500k x 4 = 30 days + extractor cost
if thats 1 plex for the extractor to theyre going to be silly money Shocked
Some of us are of the opinion 1 plex = 4 TSP is still crazy expensive (at that rate we're being double charged for the SP being transfered). Consider selling a 5m SP toon is roughly equivalent to 700 AUR for every 500k SP (That's 5 TSPs/PLEX). That's low end on the character bazaar and IMHO not a good place for balancing the 2 features if accessibility is a goal.

I'd be willing to take back anything I said about this being more than a money grab were they priced like that.

100AUR or there about should be fine, the low price incentivizes breaking up lower SP characters into packets rather than selling whole and as such helps incentivize more supply on the market vs the Bazaar, which in turn should make the market that much harder to monopolize.

Iowa Banshee wrote:
The blog says
A Transneural Skill Packet is created by extracting some of your trained skills and combining them with a ‘Transneural Skill Extractor’ which can be purchased in the New Eden Store for Aurum (The Transneural Skill Extractor is analogous to the PLEX service fee in the character bazaar).Both Transneural Skill Extractors and Transneural Skill Packets can be freely traded on the market for ISK

I read it as I plex = 1 TSP -
"Analogous to" != equivalent in cost.

As I read this, what's being given is the rationale for charging AUR, not a statement of actual cost expectation.



All of this is based on speculation. Nobody has stated how much it will cost per packet. And market prices are down to players to decide.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5633 - 2015-11-13 12:55:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Levi Belvar
YouAreMyBounty Sarn wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
We were on about a way to get players interested more / convert from trial, not using the fleece the current player base more approach.
Yours are expensive to aren't they, most are basing figures for 1 plex = 4 TSP / 7.5 days 500k x 4 = 30 days + extractor cost
if thats 1 plex for the extractor to theyre going to be silly money Shocked
Some of us are of the opinion 1 plex = 4 TSP is still crazy expensive (at that rate we're being double charged for the SP being transfered). Consider selling a 5m SP toon is roughly equivalent to 700 AUR for every 500k SP (That's 5 TSPs/PLEX). That's low end on the character bazaar and IMHO not a good place for balancing the 2 features if accessibility is a goal.

I'd be willing to take back anything I said about this being more than a money grab were they priced like that.

100AUR or there about should be fine, the low price incentivizes breaking up lower SP characters into packets rather than selling whole and as such helps incentivize more supply on the market vs the Bazaar, which in turn should make the market that much harder to monopolize.

Iowa Banshee wrote:
The blog says
A Transneural Skill Packet is created by extracting some of your trained skills and combining them with a ‘Transneural Skill Extractor’ which can be purchased in the New Eden Store for Aurum (The Transneural Skill Extractor is analogous to the PLEX service fee in the character bazaar).Both Transneural Skill Extractors and Transneural Skill Packets can be freely traded on the market for ISK

I read it as I plex = 1 TSP -
"Analogous to" != equivalent in cost.

As I read this, what's being given is the rationale for charging AUR, not a statement of actual cost expectation.



All of this is based on speculation. Nobody has stated how much it will cost per packet. And market prices are down to players to decide.

Its base price is dictated on what the plex trends at which at present is 1.2 bill, which i can only see it rising because of this feature being implemented. 1 plex (30 days ) ÷4 = 7.5 days (500k @ optimum training ) + extractor cost ( unknown value ) + profit margin ( there has to be one ) so at today's value for 1 TSP = 300 million isk + extractor cost + profit margin.

Plex sp farm will make profit margins only
sub sp farm will be like handed the keys to an isk printer.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#5634 - 2015-11-13 16:38:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Iowa Banshee
With the SP train rate at about 1.5 mill a month maybe 1 plex = 3 extractors Seems to match the 500k per packet model

*3 packets
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5635 - 2015-11-13 16:51:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Levi Belvar
Iowa Banshee wrote:
With the SP train rate at about 1.5 mill a month maybe 1 plex = 3 extractors Seems to match the 500k per packet model

*3 packets


Optimum is 2700 hr x 24 (64800 ) x 30 = 1.944 million almost 4 packets a month, Plex isn't going to effect the extractor, The plex gives you a base price for the TSP.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#5636 - 2015-11-13 16:54:52 UTC
Question about extracting skill points.

If you have 5.6 million SP, can you extract all the SP down to 100k, down to 4.6, or only to 5.1?

Thank you

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5637 - 2015-11-13 16:58:40 UTC
Niko Lorenzio wrote:
Question about extracting skill points.

If you have 5.6 million SP, can you extract all the SP down to 100k, down to 4.6, or only to 5.1?

Thank you


Can't go below 5 mill to extract from but you can use them on a new player from creation.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#5638 - 2015-11-13 18:21:04 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
With the SP train rate at about 1.5 mill a month maybe 1 plex = 3 extractors Seems to match the 500k per packet model

*3 packets


Optimum is 2700 hr x 24 (64800 ) x 30 = 1.944 million almost 4 packets a month, Plex isn't going to effect the extractor, The plex gives you a base price for the TSP.



I don't think there will be enough of a return on investment to justify the implants that give 2700/hr

I sub my accounts and don't mind the cost but there are people in my other corp that sub one acct & Plex their other the 1.2bill for a plex is pushing them to where they may have to drop their second account

If this inflatesthe price of PLEX further people will start to drop 2nd accounts and login's will drop further - but ii will please the PVP players who complain about booster alts tho they may have more to complain about when they have no-one to fight
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5639 - 2015-11-13 18:37:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Levi Belvar
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
With the SP train rate at about 1.5 mill a month maybe 1 plex = 3 extractors Seems to match the 500k per packet model

*3 packets


Optimum is 2700 hr x 24 (64800 ) x 30 = 1.944 million almost 4 packets a month, Plex isn't going to effect the extractor, The plex gives you a base price for the TSP.



I don't think there will be enough of a return on investment to justify the implants that give 2700/hr

I sub my accounts and don't mind the cost but there are people in my other corp that sub one acct & Plex their other the 1.2bill for a plex is pushing them to where they may have to drop their second account

If this inflates the price of PLEX further people will start to drop 2nd accounts and login's will drop further - but it will please the PVP players who complain about booster alts tho they may have more to complain about when they have no-one to fight


Implants aren't going to bother the wealthy, this is going to be one of the biggest passive income generators ever. All the people see are instant skill points and there will be plenty of people providing the cows to be milked.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#5640 - 2015-11-13 18:41:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Iowa Banshee
With 4 CSM's coming forward to say they don't like this
90% of posters saying its a flawed or bad idea

1st 20ish pages - I got bored checking

Quote:
Now we will see if CCP actually listens to the players