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Data Site Improvements

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Author
Aivlis Eldelbar
Foxholers
Outfoxed
#141 - 2015-10-12 15:27:57 UTC
I'm going to use this thread to shamelessly restate an old annoyance of mine: Restoration Nodes.
I am no longer too frustrated with them but only because I have such a specialized fit for Relic sites that I can brute-force through most puzzles involving them, but I still believe their implementation to be bad, and here's why.

This one node is the only one that has no gameplay around it. You simply must attack it straight away or it will overheal other nodes to unholy amounts. Even attacking it right away means taking a hit, 2 if you're using a T1 hacking module, and suffering the heal effect the corresponding number of times. With any other node I can plan around it, decide to use a consumable or hit it right away. This one has no such decision-making, since the effect is way too powerful.

-But muh Virus Supressors!- I hear you cry. These are a slightly different beast, since they don't keep dicking you after their initial effect. Here you do have a real decision: keep exploring with the risk of running into something and not having all your Virus Strength, or lose Coherence to destroy it.

My suggestions on how to change it:
- Make Res. Nodes not heal when you're attacking them. You already take damage from the node itself, no need to also add coherence to the Firewall next to the Core.
- Make restoration nodes be unable to overheal so much. At the moment the cap is somewhere in the vicinity of 400 coherence iirc, if you lower it to a more resonable level, say 1.5x-2x the original coherence of a node, then leaving the Res. Node alive will be just a risk, not a instant loss.


I realize this might be a lot of work and part of you initial design for the minigame that had to be left in an incomplete state. I will also reiterate that I no longer rage so much these things since I found a way around them, but it would be nice to have this particular detail iterated on if you find the time.
CCP RedDawn
C C P
C C P Alliance
#142 - 2015-10-12 16:32:13 UTC
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:
I'm going to use this thread to shamelessly restate an old annoyance of mine: Restoration Nodes.
I am no longer too frustrated with them but only because I have such a specialized fit for Relic sites that I can brute-force through most puzzles involving them, but I still believe their implementation to be bad, and here's why.

This one node is the only one that has no gameplay around it. You simply must attack it straight away or it will overheal other nodes to unholy amounts. Even attacking it right away means taking a hit, 2 if you're using a T1 hacking module, and suffering the heal effect the corresponding number of times. With any other node I can plan around it, decide to use a consumable or hit it right away. This one has no such decision-making, since the effect is way too powerful.

-But muh Virus Supressors!- I hear you cry. These are a slightly different beast, since they don't keep dicking you after their initial effect. Here you do have a real decision: keep exploring with the risk of running into something and not having all your Virus Strength, or lose Coherence to destroy it.

My suggestions on how to change it:
- Make Res. Nodes not heal when you're attacking them. You already take damage from the node itself, no need to also add coherence to the Firewall next to the Core.
- Make restoration nodes be unable to overheal so much. At the moment the cap is somewhere in the vicinity of 400 coherence iirc, if you lower it to a more resonable level, say 1.5x-2x the original coherence of a node, then leaving the Res. Node alive will be just a risk, not a instant loss.


I realize this might be a lot of work and part of you initial design for the minigame that had to be left in an incomplete state. I will also reiterate that I no longer rage so much these things since I found a way around them, but it would be nice to have this particular detail iterated on if you find the time.


If I get around to introducing new flavours of subsystems, I'll be sure to look into the thought of changing the Restoration node to only boost when not being attacked.

Team Genesis

Chris Daylight
Freeport . 7
#143 - 2015-10-12 22:11:43 UTC
"* All Ghost sites are now Cosmic Signatures rather than Anomalies."

??? Well there goes the world wide roaming ghoast site ship fit out the airlock, I tougth they were hard enougth to find already.

Honestly the 4 exploding can Ghoastsite is the last thing i have in eve i like to do.
Im welcomeing change but mixing them together with normal data signatures sounds evil.

If you change.
At least cal them Ghoastsite in the scan window & Not "Data".


No fixing Relic sites in droneland??

Why not add a super smal chance of more diverse reaserch materials for data & Manufacturing for Relic making Explorers more valuble for local null manufacturing.
+A very low % of datacores in dronelands.


Aivlis Eldelbar
Foxholers
Outfoxed
#144 - 2015-10-13 10:05:02 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:

If I get around to introducing new flavours of subsystems, I'll be sure to look into the thought of changing the Restoration node to only boost when not being attacked.


Thanks! Big smile

Chris Daylight wrote:
??? Well there goes the world wide roaming ghoast site ship fit out the airlock, I tougth they were hard enougth to find already.


Ghost sites are so rare that a dedicated ship just for them is, quite honeslty, a silly idea. If you read the posts before that announcement, you'll find plenty of reasons to move them to signatures and how that could, hopefully, increase the number of them done by dedicated explorers as opposed to ratters blowing them up out of ignorance.
Vargo Shahni
Pizza Delivery Express
#145 - 2015-10-13 22:50:47 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:

* All Ghost sites are now Cosmic Signatures rather than Anomalies.



Is there any chance that this decision could be reversed?

Personally, I dream of finding a High-grade Ascendancy Omega Blueprint, which I believe are only found in Wormhole Ghost Sites. Having only found these Ghost sites in class 4 and class 5 wormholes I take every opportunity to splash into these classes of wormholes. As up to this point in time Ghost sites have been anomalies I can check in just a few seconds if one is present and splash out if not. If they become signatures then my few seconds becomes many minutes as I have to work my way through all the signatures, which can often be double digit in number.

If it is to proceed, will they continue to be combat sites or will they become data sites? If they stay as combat sites then apart from people who run them being a little safer from other players intervention there is little benefit, just that all explorers interested in this content will have to get a 75% signal on all combat sites to check if they have found a ghost site, rather than getting a 25% signal and automatically dismissing the combat site. If they become data sites then a lot of new explorers are going to be mightily surprised when the rats turn up. For experienced players,who don't run data sites due to the up until now poor return, will again need that 75% signal on all data sites to check if it is a rare ghost site.

PS love your efforts to get data sites more on a par with relic sites.
Brian Harrelstein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#146 - 2015-10-14 05:29:59 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
So for your perusal, I'll list the proposed changes to data sites now.

* Removed all skill books from Relic sites and placed them into Data sites. (Includes Encryption books)
* Removed the more commonly dropped 'non rig-related' blueprints from all the Relic sites. (They will still drop in Data sites)
* Introduced all Cosmos site building materials to all 4 tiers of Data sites. (Info Shard, Com Tower, Mainframe and Databank)
* Increased the drop frequency of the Cosmos sites items that are currently on the Data site loot tables.
* All exploration Ghost Sites now require the use of the Data Analyzer module.
* Halved the drop amount of the most commonly used building materials found in all data sites. (EG: Positron Cords, Electric Conduits etc)
* All Ghost sites are now Cosmic Signatures rather than Anomalies.


data sites will still suck, and making ghost sites need the data scanner wastes a mid slot in my ship. and what's the deal with data sites giving out useless trade commodities like high tech weapons?
Fermin Mascagranzas
Uranus Intruders
COALICION HISPANA
#147 - 2015-10-14 06:00:52 UTC
I think the right direction would be to look at the main use of the main goodies dropping from these.

Relic sites drop mainly components fro T1 and T2 rig production. Rigs are always in high demand not only as a key component of every ship, but also a non reusable one, destructed on remove and never dropped from a wreck, so a high value is guaranteed.

Data sites main goodies are related to research T1 to T2. To increase Data sites value the researching should change in some of this ways:

- Requiring a higher amount of the mandatory materials ( datacores, components )
- Making some of the optional components mandatory
- Making the optional components more attractive ( either increasing runs, material eff or succes chance higher using them or making them lower without using them )

The vast majority of guides about research I have read, remark how unnecessary and even cost-ineffective optional research items are.

Of course a simpler and maybe easier ways to increase the relative value would be to reduce/elliminate other means of obtaining them.

On unrelated note, It will be great to make ghost sites only reachable by scanning means, lots of them are screwed by people that warp to them unknowingly of what they are, or wallet tanking the site with a rookie/T1 frig and T1 modules, or directly screws them for the lulz. Let them to serious explorers.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#148 - 2015-10-14 11:22:34 UTC
Can we have signtaures removed from probe scanner and solar system map? So we can actually feel like exploring and finding something.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#149 - 2015-10-14 11:31:18 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Can we have signtaures removed from probe scanner and solar system map? So we can actually feel like exploring and finding something.

What you are referring to is known as the discovery scanner, and it is part of what has helped to kill exploration loot values as well as the feeling of discovery.
It did bring about a good change though as cosmic anomalies used to be hidden until a single scan was done.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#150 - 2015-10-14 11:35:41 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
What you are referring to is known as the discovery scanner, and it is part of what has helped to kill exploration loot values as well as the feeling of discovery.
It did bring about a good change though as cosmic anomalies used to be hidden until a single scan was done.

That why I'm talking about signatures only.
I'm reading Sugar's blog lately, last post "Mastery and..." made me think exploration changes went too far.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#151 - 2015-10-14 12:25:54 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
What you are referring to is known as the discovery scanner, and it is part of what has helped to kill exploration loot values as well as the feeling of discovery.
It did bring about a good change though as cosmic anomalies used to be hidden until a single scan was done.

That why I'm talking about signatures only.
I'm reading Sugar's blog lately, last post "Mastery and..." made me think exploration changes went too far.

They did, and some players, myself included, tried to get some of the changes reversed before they hit TQ. Removing sigs from the discovery scanner would bring back immersion and the feeling of discovery.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Iceburn1
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#152 - 2015-10-15 01:58:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Iceburn1
BTW....
While you are at it, why don't you fix Drone Regions.

1. NO relic sites
2. Ghost sites are rare
3. NO sleeper sites
4. NO scanable 10/10 sites (highest is 5/10)
A. 5/10 are not worth doing nor the escalations (risk vs reward)
B. 10/10 as escalations pay outs are way under most other regions.
5. Faction spawns are useless and chips for SOE ships are rare.
6. Officer spawns. Complete Waist of Time!!!!

Using Wiki's and taking into account that one must rat in -.6 or lower. Belt counts must be very high in order to get an Officer spawn to make it worth while and in Drone Regions the lower the system the lower the belt counts; about 3-6 belts. So if i would rat a system with 2-3 spawns that respawn every 20 min It would be lots of luck or 3 years of my life (not counting people who can rat 12 hours a day ( then 7 month) to get an Officer spawn. That is ridiculous considering that there are regions where one can rat for 2 hours a day and get more then 3 Officer Spawns in a Month.


Drone Regions NEED LOVE TOO


Thank you

Ice
Shurgin Ambraelle
Vagrants Against Gankers In Null Alliances
#153 - 2015-10-15 02:00:56 UTC
Iceburn1 wrote:
BTW....
While you are at it, why don't you fix Drone Regions.

1. NO relic sites
2. Ghost sites are rare
3. NO sleeper sites
4. NO scanable 10/10 sites (highest is 5/10)
A. 5/10 are not worth doing nor the escalations (risk vs reward)
B. 10/10 as escalations pay outs are way under most other regions.
5. Faction spawns are useless and chips for SOE ships are rare.
6. Officer spawns. Complete Waist of Time!!!!

Using Wiki's and taking into account that one must rat in -.6 or lower. Belt counts must be very high in order to get an Officer spawn to make it worth while and in Drone Regions the lower the system the lower the belt counts; about 3-6 belts. So if i would rat a system with 2-3 spawns that respawn every 20 min It would be lots of luck or 3 years of my life (not counting people who can rat 12 hours a day ( then 7 month) to get an Officer spawn. That is ridiculous considering that there are regions where one can rat for 2 hours a day and get more then 3 Officer Spawns in a Month.


Drone Regions NEED LOVE TOO


Thank you

Ice


*Shurgin Gives ICE a hug!!

The Biggest FUCer of them all!! RL COMES 1ST!!

-The Gene Pool Could Use a Little Chlorine!! Proud Member of InPanic!!

Fermin Mascagranzas
Uranus Intruders
COALICION HISPANA
#154 - 2015-10-15 07:21:11 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Hello all.

* All exploration Ghost Sites now require the use of the Data Analyzer module.
* All Ghost sites are now Cosmic Signatures rather than Anomalies.



About these two changes, what type of cosmic signature will be the ghost sites?

I propose turning them from combat sites to Data sites, in accordance with the hacking module change. Many explorers with litle interest in NPC killing put the signature in ignore as soon as they uncover the "Combat Site" description while probing.

If they keep being combat sites, from now on 95% of this combat sites will keep being standard ignorable combat sites, but we will have to finsih off the scanning on all of them to see if it is a ghost site...
Ayx Shewma
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#155 - 2015-10-15 13:59:24 UTC
Have any of these changes been implemented yet? I've noticed... a difference in the loot from data sites.
Alexiel Fireborn
Renegade Stars
Stellae Renascitur
#156 - 2015-10-15 16:20:37 UTC
i can suggest 2 ways to improve data sites ...
1st (easier) just add tiny chance for 1run Gecko BPC to data sites. Reasons are obvious
2nd (harder but more suitable) : add region faction bpc in data sites - for example - talisman bpc and blood raider modules/ships bpc in delve and querious . Cristal and dread guristas bpc for Vale of the silenty ... etc.
Alexiel Fireborn
Renegade Stars
Stellae Renascitur
#157 - 2015-10-15 16:29:29 UTC
[quote=Shurgin Ambraelle][quote=Iceburn1]BTW....
While you are at it, why don't you fix Drone Regions.

1. NO relic sites
2. Ghost sites are rare
3. NO sleeper sites
4. NO scanable 10/10 sites (highest is 5/10)
A. 5/10 are not worth doing nor the escalations (risk vs reward)
B. 10/10 as escalations pay outs are way under most other regions.
5. Faction spawns are useless and chips for SOE ships are rare.
6. Officer spawns. Complete Waist of Time!!!!

Using Wiki's and taking into account that one must rat in -.6 or lower. Belt counts must be very high in order to get an Officer spawn to make it worth while and in Drone Regions the lower the system the lower the belt counts; about 3-6 belts. So if i would rat a system with 2-3 spawns that respawn every 20 min It would be lots of luck or 3 years of my life (not counting people who can rat 12 hours a day ( then 7 month) to get an Officer spawn. That is ridiculous considering that there are regions where one can rat for 2 hours a day and get more then 3 Officer Spawns in a Month.


Drone Regions NEED LOVE TOO


1 - agree
2- not so much
3 - agree
4 true
4.A - FALSE (i was in drone region and they definitely worth doing it - they give u between 150 and 300m if escalate)
4b. rofl drone 10/10 brings u between 400 and 600m each time (last my 2 blood raider naval shipyards were approx 200m each)
5. nope , they arent , one drone dmg amp is still worth 150m , and they didnt drop so rarely chips , one friend of mine do signatures only in drone region and make average 1.5b-2b per day
6. i killed drone officer once - drop 7b ... and if this waste of time for u ... gl
CCP RedDawn
C C P
C C P Alliance
#158 - 2015-10-15 16:44:20 UTC
Fermin Mascagranzas wrote:
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Hello all.

* All exploration Ghost Sites now require the use of the Data Analyzer module.
* All Ghost sites are now Cosmic Signatures rather than Anomalies.



About these two changes, what type of cosmic signature will be the ghost sites?

I propose turning them from combat sites to Data sites, in accordance with the hacking module change. Many explorers with litle interest in NPC killing put the signature in ignore as soon as they uncover the "Combat Site" description while probing.

If they keep being combat sites, from now on 95% of this combat sites will keep being standard ignorable combat sites, but we will have to finsih off the scanning on all of them to see if it is a ghost site...


The will appear as Data sites now.

Team Genesis

CCP RedDawn
C C P
C C P Alliance
#159 - 2015-10-15 16:48:51 UTC
Alexiel Fireborn wrote:
[quote=Shurgin Ambraelle][quote=Iceburn1]BTW....
While you are at it, why don't you fix Drone Regions.

1. NO relic sites
2. Ghost sites are rare
3. NO sleeper sites
4. NO scanable 10/10 sites (highest is 5/10)
A. 5/10 are not worth doing nor the escalations (risk vs reward)
B. 10/10 as escalations pay outs are way under most other regions.
5. Faction spawns are useless and chips for SOE ships are rare.
6. Officer spawns. Complete Waist of Time!!!!

Using Wiki's and taking into account that one must rat in -.6 or lower. Belt counts must be very high in order to get an Officer spawn to make it worth while and in Drone Regions the lower the system the lower the belt counts; about 3-6 belts. So if i would rat a system with 2-3 spawns that respawn every 20 min It would be lots of luck or 3 years of my life (not counting people who can rat 12 hours a day ( then 7 month) to get an Officer spawn. That is ridiculous considering that there are regions where one can rat for 2 hours a day and get more then 3 Officer Spawns in a Month.


Drone Regions NEED LOVE TOO


1 - agree
2- not so much
3 - agree
4 true
4.A - FALSE (i was in drone region and they definitely worth doing it - they give u between 150 and 300m if escalate)
4b. rofl drone 10/10 brings u between 400 and 600m each time (last my 2 blood raider naval shipyards were approx 200m each)
5. nope , they arent , one drone dmg amp is still worth 150m , and they didnt drop so rarely chips , one friend of mine do signatures only in drone region and make average 1.5b-2b per day
6. i killed drone officer once - drop 7b ... and if this waste of time for u ... gl


Unfortunately, I don't have the spare time to go on a fixing spree right now, but the concerns over the Drone Regions are already known and something that should definitely be tackled in the future.

Team Genesis

Laris Torch
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#160 - 2015-10-15 17:50:12 UTC
Ayx Shewma wrote:
Have any of these changes been implemented yet? I've noticed... a difference in the loot from data sites.

Or do you have an estimate on when this will be implemented?