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Data Site Improvements

First post First post
Author
Ayx Shewma
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#181 - 2015-10-18 18:50:10 UTC
HotCakes wrote:
I agree with Ransu Asanari,

CCP RedDawn wrote:
Doyle Aldurad wrote:
CCP RedDawn wrote:


* Removed all skill books from Relic sites and placed them into Data sites. (Includes Encryption books)
* Removed the more commonly dropped 'non rig-related' blueprints from all the Relic sites. (They will still drop in Data sites)

Fly safe,
CCP RedDawn


Please do NOT butcher Relic sites to make data sites better. Find them something new and unique. Making Relic sites suck more because you hope to make data sites suck less is not a solution.


Relic sites still have all their unique loot, all I've done is removed their less valuable drops which also already currently drop in Data sites.

No need to worry.


So basicly DATA are still not worth doing and this whole execise was an effort in futility.

:(

Dont mean to be nag.
But DATA need something significant to get people to do them.

Perhaps look into droping blueprints for high value meta4 items.

And on top of that reduce the drop rate of all lower meta items to below there destruction rate.
The market has been flooded with massive quantities for years and people sell them for scrap.
Eventhough they are better then the t1 equevalent.

Newbe's dont even wanna salvage nowadays because the salvage is worth (s)crap.

Hope it gives you some new idea's.


Data sites are worth running simply for the fact that getting rid of them causes another relic/data to spawn somewhere else in the region.

Not running sites, or running them partially, does nothing to help you or any other explorer. Even if you just go in and spend 3-4 minutes blowing up all the cans, you're doing everyone a service. Personally, I cargo scan them, loot the good ones, blow up the rest, as most experienced explorers do.
Leitharos Rosselem
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#182 - 2015-10-19 10:16:36 UTC
Doyle Aldurad wrote:


Please do NOT butcher Relic sites to make data sites better. Find them something new and unique. Making Relic sites suck more because you hope to make data sites suck less is not a solution.


This.

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#183 - 2015-10-19 10:24:50 UTC
Leitharos Rosselem wrote:
Doyle Aldurad wrote:
Please do NOT butcher Relic sites to make data sites better. Find them something new and unique. Making Relic sites suck more because you hope to make data sites suck less is not a solution.
This.

Do you guys know what are you talking about anyway? Relics value are most salvage materials. Books and BPC are insignificant rare.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
#184 - 2015-10-20 00:00:06 UTC
@CCP RedDawn

First of all, thank you for your effort.

On topic:
Thinking about increasing the value of data sites, the first thing, that came to mind, was making data sites the only source for datacores. Of course, I don't have the numbers on how many datacores come from FW LP stores compared to data sites and research agents, so i don't know, if this would even be a viable solution, but maybe it's worth to think about it and do some research in that direction.


Regards,
Damjan
Capsups
Atomic Mangocorp
#185 - 2015-10-20 10:48:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Capsups
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Thanks for the feedback so far, some good points raised overall.

To answer some reoccurring questions:

* High Tech items are on my list to make useful


EDIT: Added some stuff

That's it for now, I'll be watching. Smile

CCP RedDawn


How about using them as a material requirement to build citadels and the new structures?
High-Tech Data Chip sounds like something you could use in a citadel, High-Tech Scanner is an obvious candidate for including in the new observatories, High-Tech Manufacturing Tools could easily fit in with the new industry structures while the High-Tech Small Arms could perhaps be used for the new modules that can be fit onto citadels.

This could potentially increase the value of data sites immensely and suddenly there's a major demand for people doing exploration sites because there's always a demand for the new structures, just like there are for POS right now.
Crystalline Entity
Black Dragon PHP
Darwinism.
#186 - 2015-10-20 12:35:55 UTC
Love you caps x
Ace Aideron
Red Falcon Group
#187 - 2015-10-21 03:02:26 UTC
Any chance you would consider making Relic Sites available in the drone regions?

We don't get any drops from most rats, so any offsets we can get in other areas would be most welcome.

Kayden Katelo
Doomheim
#188 - 2015-10-22 23:32:43 UTC
So, um, Red Dawn, I just saw your video about exploration. Did you know you have a Scottish accent? In fact at one point my wife thought Jackie Stewart was playing EVE now.
Anthar Thebess
#189 - 2015-10-23 14:14:55 UTC
Put to guristas LP store Gecko BPC , that use tons of data site materials to produce.
Like tons of this stuff - let say 50mil at current values.

Wait and look how people start to kill each other to do data sites.

Problem is not in datasites , but that stuff you can make using it limited , or have very limited use.
Soltys
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#190 - 2015-10-24 16:12:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Soltys
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Kayden Katelo wrote:
[quote=Kayden Katelo ]Now, lets think about the veterans. Lets consider those that have been playing for more than five plus years. Time to make some elements of exploration hard again please.

They did. Sleepers sites are for more experienced players.


Not everything "hard" implies shooting / bringing friends|alts / passive tanking first wave (leaving single trigger alive).

In context of solo exploring the whole scanning and minigame are both rather ... undemanding now. And that's putting it in very, very kind words.


  • something that requires custom probe formations and notably higher skills/better equipment (Vs, T2 modules, implants) would be highly welcome. An idea here: scanning that involves 2 or more different points in space that contribute to each other's results (cons: might need some math/mechanics adjustments) - essentially forcing player to use clever probe formation that has to cover each point with 4 probes geometrically, and with such a configuration that gives enough signal strength overall. This alone could present excellent puzzle in itself and give a reason to invent heavier isk into implants/equipment.
  • hacking minigame could use some heavy difficulty upgrade as well, as currently it's certanly mini and barely feels like a game
  • some escalation-like ideas - where stuff painfully hard to scan and difficult hack (by complexity, not rng) leads to some other place(s) and so one - perhaps starting with some agent (whose level would designate difficulty) hinting about some WH/null system as a starting place


This is kind exploration I'd want to participate in (implementation details aside) - going deeper and further, perhaps sharing some lore tidbits, with jackpot awaiting at the end (or a gank/gatecamp/whatever else death if careless).

Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl & Kuvl

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#191 - 2015-10-26 09:11:41 UTC
Soltys wrote:
something that requires custom probe formations and notably higher skills/better equipment (Vs, T2 modules, implants) would be highly welcome. An idea here: scanning that involves 2 or more different points in space that contribute to each other's results (cons: might need some math/mechanics adjustments) - essentially forcing player to use clever probe formation that has to cover each point with 4 probes geometrically, and with such a configuration that gives enough signal strength overall. This alone could present excellent puzzle in itself and give a reason to invent heavier isk into implants/equipment.
hacking minigame could use some heavy difficulty upgrade as well, as currently it's certanly mini and barely feels like a game
some escalation-like ideas - where stuff painfully hard to scan and difficult hack (by complexity, not rng) leads to some other place(s) and so one - perhaps starting with some agent (whose level would designate difficulty) hinting about some WH/null system as a starting place

...or remove signatures from scanner. They are showing you were to look. CCP don't want to do that, they are happy with current state of exploration.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#192 - 2015-10-26 21:30:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ransu Asanari
So the Citadel Build Devblog is out - my thoughts here.


  • No mention of any of the Data Site components being used in their build process to increase their value - not for "High-Tech" items or the Faction Materials.

  • No mention of how the Faction POS Tower and Modules in Data Sites will be replaced other than "If and when we release Tech II or faction modules the material build-up will be properly modified to match" which suggests they won't be there on launch, and Faction POS Tower/Module BPCs will become less and less valuable as they move towards becoming obsolete.

  • In fact the increased demand for Salvage for Citadel Rigs will be INCREASING the value of Relic Sites and local salvaging, while Data Sites still don't really have anything unique to offer to boost their value from the current level.

  • T2 Citadel Rig BPCs can be invented, or "found" - so I'm assuming they will be rare drops in Data or Relic Sites? This isn't a huge value since even right now the Capital rigs aren't worth that much, and they are usually 0ME so they're worse than the ones you can invent anyway, and usually are built at a loss except for very specific popular ones.


CCP RedDawn, you stated there is a plan to replace POS based drops - is this going to happen on Launch, or sometime afterwards, once POS starts to be phased out? It feels like we're still not going to have any value from Data Sites into the Citadel manufacturing chain, and that's a huge missed opportunity.
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#193 - 2015-10-26 21:40:24 UTC
Pandora Bokks wrote:
Actually, it is comparably safe to run them. Dropping a mobile depot and having stabs in your cargohold is mandatory. If local spikes, refit and get away. Any soloer or small gang that tries to catch you will be taken care of by the rats due to aggression switch mechanics. I like them as they are, although I still feel the loot table has changed recently (yes, feel - in reality I was ofc just very unlucky the last weeks). And please do not change them to signatures, I do not want to carry my prober with me all the time.


With the announced changes from EVE Vegas, you won't be able to refit anything when you have a weapons timer. That's going to make a lot of the refitting options we use right now with a Mobile Depot impossible if you start to get into a PVP fight.

I still think the Besieged sites would fit better as combat signatures that you have to scan down. There are already a lot of Unrated and 4-5/10 DED Combat Sites in Lowsec, and these would fit right into the same line of sites to run with a ship that can scan down the signatures, then refit (in a station or with a depot) to full combat to run them.
Sapheni
Black Moon Mining
#194 - 2015-11-02 21:31:59 UTC
Ghost sites: Random invisible timer is not fun. Could you add some sort of countdown clock so the solo explorer has a chance to react? At the moment, assuming moderate competence at hacking, for a frigate all risk management decisions boil down to:

1st can = definitely safe
2nd can = depends on invisible timer
3rd can = definitely dead frigate

A pop-up 10 or 15 second timer (like the log-off timer) gives the pilot a chance to get away, but only if he's quick, paying attention and not stuck on the structure = more skill involved, more options, less tears.

*And yes, I am ranting because I did lose my first Astero to this.
Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
#195 - 2015-11-02 22:18:39 UTC
Sapheni wrote:
Random invisible timer is not fun. Could you add some sort of countdown clock so the solo explorer has a chance to react?


But you have a "visible timer". As soon as you see the NPCs on overview, you have more than enough time to warp out, before they lock and point you. And an Astero fitted right, can tank the can explosion without any problems, even in nullsec.

With the right fit, you warp in, scan the containers for the best ones and start with those, hack as many containers as you can and as soon as you see the the NPCs on overview, GTFO. Even if you are in the middle of a hack. Tank the explosion and warp away.

Here is a possible fit:


[Astero, Ghost Sites (Null-Sec)]
Reactor Control Unit II
Inertial Stabilizers II
Inertial Stabilizers II
Damage Control II

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Relic Analyzer II
Cargo Scanner II
Medium Shield Extender II

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe

Small Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II
Sansh Leko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#196 - 2015-11-04 11:21:48 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:


All the Takmahl, Talocan, Yan Jung and Sleeper Cosmos items, plus the extra pirate faction items found in Cosmos sites.
In the future I'd rather improve Data Sites by adding more unique items and also change the currently dropped useless loot into building materials instead. The surplus items you speak of from Data Sites have had its loot amount drop halved.



I am glad to hear that, the amount of Storyline copies some of us have from Sleeper caches since they were released is insane.

Maths for some of the most valuable are only to be found from COSMOS missions, skills I trained for all 4 ancient races to V will now not be useless.

Keep up the great work Blink

Sapheni
Black Moon Mining
#197 - 2015-11-04 21:32:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Sapheni
Damjan Fox wrote:
Sapheni wrote:
Random invisible timer is not fun. Could you add some sort of countdown clock so the solo explorer has a chance to react?


But you have a "visible timer". As soon as you see the NPCs on overview, you have more than enough time to warp out, before they lock and point you. And an Astero fitted right, can tank the can explosion without any problems, even in nullsec.

With the right fit, you warp in, scan the containers for the best ones and start with those, hack as many containers as you can and as soon as you see the the NPCs on overview, GTFO. Even if you are in the middle of a hack. Tank the explosion and warp away.



Hmm, maybe I ought to file a ticket in that case.

I reached the third can, opened the mini game, clicked on two open links and then it exploded. I assumed it was some timer-related thing that I hadn't encountered before. But if the NPCs are always a precursor then it must have been something else (they didn't arrive for at least 30 seconds, maybe longer).

In any case some clarity from the Devs on some of the mechanics would be good (not just ghost sites -the whole lot). Player-built sites and Evelopedia sometimes help, but it would be nice to be able to judge the level of risk with a level of assurance that the information is reliable. If I'm confident I have time, that I can hack the can, and that I can escape the NPCs then I'll take the risk. If I'm not I'll just avoid it - it's not worth losing an expensive ship just to test what the EVE god of random-ness is going to do today. I actually sat there in disbelief for those 30s because I haven't lost a ship to instapopping for over ten years.
Ari Shekelstein
Doomheim
#198 - 2015-11-05 01:03:04 UTC
did these changes get implemented yet?
Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
#199 - 2015-11-05 11:46:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Damjan Fox
Sapheni wrote:
I reached the third can, opened the mini game, clicked on two open links and then it exploded. I assumed it was some timer-related thing that I hadn't encountered before. But if the NPCs are always a precursor then it must have been something else (they didn't arrive for at least 30 seconds, maybe longer).

The NPCs will ALWAYS show up before any of the cans explode (unless you fail the hack of course).I'm pretty sure then, you don't have these ghost site NPCs set to be shown on your overview. They showed up and starting shooting the can and you didn't notice.
I can't remember offhand, how they are called exactly, but just go through your overview settings to add them to overview.
Fermin Mascagranzas
Uranus Intruders
COALICION HISPANA
#200 - 2015-11-06 06:55:12 UTC
Sapheni wrote:


I reached the third can, opened the mini game, clicked on two open links and then it exploded. I assumed it was some timer-related thing that I hadn't encountered before. But if the NPCs are always a precursor then it must have been something else (they didn't arrive for at least 30 seconds, maybe longer).



It happened to me once also, if you are sure that the rats didn´t appeared by the time you blowned up there are two good candidates:

- You forgot to deactivate the MWD ( or did it too late ) and you fell out of hacking range ( 6km for T2 modules, 5 km for T1 ). This automatically fails the hack, and in a ghost site blowns you up

- You arrived to the third can in such a low capacitor that the first cycle of the analyzer finished it up, couldn´t make a second cycle, thus failing the hack and instapopping you.