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Collective petition about fozziesov

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flakeys
Doomheim
#181 - 2015-08-02 13:56:34 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
High-sec miners are telling you to HTFU .. and to adapt or die.






Big smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smile

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#182 - 2015-08-02 14:11:46 UTC
flakeys wrote:
High-sec miners are telling you to HTFU .. and to adapt or die.
Check my post history, I...
- create threads to try give miners more "stand and fight" rather than "dock or die".
- support further Walking in Stations development.
- would like to see T1 industrials become less paper thin.
- am a logi anchor and occasional fleet commander for a Null Sec alliance.
- lead a group that raids worm holes mostly for loot but we fit to PVP if we run into someone.

and I say that this Fozzie SOV is a step backwards because it is making the SOV mechanics childish and slow.
You can no longer make a composition and fits for damage to grind faster.
You can no longer improve your repair ships to fix the structures faster.

Now all you do is wave a wand from pretty much any ship.

Utter garbage.

Pirate / Bear / Twisted / Cool / Lol
(What ever the heck label suits you today.)

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Gen Eve
Dissident Aggressors
Mordus Angels
#183 - 2015-08-02 14:20:27 UTC
FUZZISOV JUST GOT ROLLED IN AND TEARS ARE FILLING THE BUCKETS!

Many big/massive alliances whining about new sov mechanics. They whining that they can't defend themselves from small groups of people. And their unused space gets attacked. They crying like babies instead of embracing the new system. FUZZ has just started and amount of fun and game content we have has simply skyrocketed 1000% for us.

All these cry-baby egoistic multi-region sov holders see is way to manage other peeps, to force them to pay rent, to make isk isk isk. They ARE the reason CCP changed this game so drastically. FUZZ SOV means who ever has sov, needs to live in it and protect it, as opposed to "safely hold" sov and whoever challenges it, to blob any challenger with blob of peeps and caps/supers.

STOP CRYING AND GET ON BOARD! CCP YOU DOING A GREAT JOB! NERF THE MOON MILK COWS NEXT AND FIX POSES.

LONG LIVE FUZZ SOV!

BEST THING THAT HAPPENED TO EVE IN 10 YEARS!!!
Gott Lieb
State War Academy
Caldari State
#184 - 2015-08-02 14:40:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Gott Lieb
Awesome changes! CCP doing it right. It's game mechanics now, stop crying and conform. Sov holders will not be able to hold empty systems that cannot be defended from now. All your tears are about losing surplus profit. A lot of capsuleers now have more fun then ever. And guys, your whining is miserable.
Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#185 - 2015-08-02 14:54:20 UTC
Gott Lieb wrote:
Awesome changes! CCP doing it right. It's game mechanics now, stop crying and conform. Sov holders will not be able to hold empty systems that cannot be defended from now. All your tears are about losing surplus profit. A lot of capsuleers now have more fun then ever. And guys, your whining is miserable.

Are you going to go back to crying when we get the ADM up to max in Pure Blind so that you have to actually take almost an hour rather than the 10 to 20 minute trolling that your doing presently?

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 
Icycle
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#186 - 2015-08-02 14:57:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Icycle
Falin Whalen wrote:
Gott Lieb wrote:
Awesome changes! CCP doing it right. It's game mechanics now, stop crying and conform. Sov holders will not be able to hold empty systems that cannot be defended from now. All your tears are about losing surplus profit. A lot of capsuleers now have more fun then ever. And guys, your whining is miserable.

Are you going to go back to crying when we get the ADM up to max in Pure Blind so that you have to actually take almost an hour rather than the 10 to 20 minute trolling that your doing presently?


Thats ok. I did one that was 40 + minutes long the othere day and reinforced it. =)
If you think thats going to stop us from entosing it, well you are so wrong Twisted
Itachi Uchonela
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#187 - 2015-08-02 14:59:15 UTC
I personally think thar fuzzisov was a good idea for CCP to implement. It was a way for them to break up the complete strangleholds that the larger alliances such as Goonswarm have held on the their regions (such as pureblind, delkin, etc). But the way that CCP introduced the system was a little sloppy in the sense that it does allow things like the troll ceptor and the trolltron to be used by a single person to completely mess up an entire system. While i currently have no thoughts on how exactly this system can be fixed I do feel that possibly increasing the time of the entosis link cycle or maybe reducing the vulnerability time windows (forcing people that may want to take the system to actually form a somewhat sizeable fleet) may help reduce the tension and frustration that this new system has caused untill a somewhat agreeable fix has been decided upon. Remember guys the reason that CCP did this was to in a sense throw a monkey wrench of sorts in to the stagnated area of null sec so let try and respect their decision and not bash them for it but help them find the solution to make fuzzisov work.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#188 - 2015-08-02 15:25:33 UTC
Jabbrail wrote:
davet517 wrote:
Problem: You're trying to hold more space than you can defend, and in some cases, rent it out, when the mechanics don't allow that anymore.

Solution: Stop that.


There is no "stop" solution for this.
Cause if you want to get a claim - bring your fleet.
If your fleet wins - you ll get the claim.
Right now it is more like OMFGLOLZ type attack on multiple systems with 1-2 interceptors or even t1 frigs.

You want what was instead of what is the new reality of nullsec. If your species cannot adapt then like non-adaptive species before you-you will become extinct as you should and some new more adaptable species will take your space.

Working as intended....

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#189 - 2015-08-02 15:48:39 UTC
Jabbrail wrote:
davet517 wrote:
Jabbrail wrote:
There is no "stop" solution for this.
Cause if you want to get a claim - bring your fleet.
If your fleet wins - you ll get the claim.
Right now it is more like OMFGLOLZ type attack on multiple systems with 1-2 interceptors or even t1 frigs.


There is. Here you go:

1. Claim only the space that you intend to live in.
2. Live in it. Your indexes will rise.
3. If someone comes during your prime time to troll space that you are actually living in, kill them.
4. Profit.

Your days of being an absentee landlord are behind you. So are your days of holding an entire region of systems populated by one nullified tengu and a tower. Adapt.


My point is, that I am absolutely for a Good Fight.
Have your fleets ready and claim everything you can claim!
I am not against the principles.
But it looks crazy then you start a war with a country, gather your troops and next day 1 spy is putting enemy flag on central square and you lose your capital.
WTF?!!!!
I want a fight, not "hide and seek" game. I have them enough in a kindergarden.


Nullsec had years to fight and chose non-agression pacts instead making a change to nullsec mechanics a must.

One of the nullsecs mantras thrown at highsec for years, 'you have a choice', and in this case you have a choice, fight for your sov or lose it.

God i love using your own tired old mantras back at nullsec!

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#190 - 2015-08-02 15:55:09 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
You want what was instead of what is the new reality of nullsec. If your species cannot adapt then like non-adaptive species before you-you will become extinct as you should and some new more adaptable species will take your space.
.

No actually, the space could just be left empty, that's what you'd expect from trollsov after all.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Borascus
#191 - 2015-08-02 15:58:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Your issue here is that you are equating sov with fights.
The two are only tangentially related, not a direct correlation.

Try doing other things to get fights.
Also, who cares if there are empty systems? That's systems you then don't have to waste time with if you are searching for a large scale fight against another null alliance. Just go direct to their active systems with a Battleship fleet, wait for them to escalate, then drop your own cyno's. Hey presto, massive fight.
Or just jump a titan in with said BS fleet, and watch the server go crazy.

If you want a big cap fight, look at the actual reasons big cap fights have happened. Nothing to do with nibbling away at unimportant sov and troll roams. Those happened under the old sov mechanics as well, cloaky roams almost never escalated to titan fights. It was form ups over critical hub systems, or a tackled titan (who may have pressed jump not bridge) that made the big fights. So use those reasons, not sov for the sake of sov.


People make more ISK/hr running NPC L4's according to some accounts.

I'm worse on twitter, but to cover a few things;

I'm pointing at interceptors.
I'm of the persuasion that holding Sov encourages group conflict as a conflict driver.
I'm of the understanding that ISK generation is not the be all and end all of null-sec.
I'm of the opinion that larger sov can be retained by having a Blops / recon (rapier, surprisingly) in each edge system with a fleet in the most populated system able to accept local bridging.


I'm also looking at this from a development perspective.

If I want an even chance for alliance members to utilise developed systems, I'll develop more systems than just leaving 100 alliance members to fight for the one developed system's catches.

I'm also looking at specific mineral requisition. I don't like the idea of leaving a system near my space untouched while I cope with ore distribution in my developed industry system and then long hauling any expedited mineral demands from those undeveloped systems nearby, unrefined. It doesn't leave any wiggle room for nerfs / strength increases as Fozzie further balances ships. Exposure is not a position players are forced into with the right planning.

This 'small is power' approach being put forward for defense would mean the same as a hi-sec to null invasion, eventually you run out of things you need to meet your own objectives, this for me was the reason larger fleets increased their efficiency using 1-time cost drones instead of running account ammo.
Nevil Kincade
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#192 - 2015-08-02 16:00:15 UTC
After 3 evenings of pvping in Fuzzysov i already realize that it is a huge content generator and for that i love it !
Thank you for the best patch i've seen in Eve CPP !

I do strongly disagree with the blobbers complaint about harassment by smaller entities. Due to the asymmetric mechanics the attackers/harassers have to put in a multitude of the manhours for entosising that the defenders have to commit. If the Defender is twice the size of the attackers and Needs only half the Manpower when playing it right and still cant hold his space then he doesn't ******* deserve it. Period. Get out of 0.0 blobber garbage. NOW !

Of course the Carebears are crying now who have been hiding behind millions of structure hitpoints for years reducing the game to a ******** boring blob fest with no skill required but social Networking. Of course they got bad at pvp over the years that way. It's only natural if you dont keep excercising.
Sov space was always meant as something you had to earn by fighting for it and not as your birthright by inheritance. I see big alliances complaining here who outnumber us anywhere between 2:1 to 10:1 in daily Engagements. If they are not willing to split into smaller groups to contest the different aggressors because of being scared to bear the responsibility of loosing a fight against an entity that specializes into skirmishes IT IS THEIR OWN FAULT if they loose contests for timers.

If anything it is still WAY TO EASY for large alliances to defend sov after Aegis. The only way they can ever loose space is by not showing up for fights. All a numerically superior force would have to do is split up on the different command nodes. I hope that this TEAR FEST will not sway CCP to make any changes. After all this new sov System was proposed, supported and signed off by the leaders of the big alliances beforehand.
And now they are crying ...
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#193 - 2015-08-02 16:03:12 UTC
Sapporo Jones wrote:
TEST, we held our breath and waited to see what CCP would deliver...


And when we discovered that we would actually have to use our sov AND DEAR GOD defend it against all agressors both large and small you used all that baited breath to wail like infants that defending your sov is something CCP should be doing for you.

Well done!

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Pah Cova
Made in Portugal S.A.
#194 - 2015-08-02 16:04:44 UTC
Gen Eve wrote:
FUZZISOV JUST GOT ROLLED IN AND TEARS ARE FILLING THE BUCKETS!

Many big/massive alliances whining about new sov mechanics. They whining that they can't defend themselves from small groups of people. And their unused space gets attacked. They crying like babies instead of embracing the new system. FUZZ has just started and amount of fun and game content we have has simply skyrocketed 1000% for us.

All these cry-baby egoistic multi-region sov holders see is way to manage other peeps, to force them to pay rent, to make isk isk isk. They ARE the reason CCP changed this game so drastically. FUZZ SOV means who ever has sov, needs to live in it and protect it, as opposed to "safely hold" sov and whoever challenges it, to blob any challenger with blob of peeps and caps/supers.

STOP CRYING AND GET ON BOARD! CCP YOU DOING A GREAT JOB! NERF THE MOON MILK COWS NEXT AND FIX POSES.

LONG LIVE FUZZ SOV!

BEST THING THAT HAPPENED TO EVE IN 10 YEARS!!!


Reading your words, seems to me that you like to see an empty null sec space instead of a full one with many targets.
Are you monitorizing the game? Are you aware that peolple are leaving null sec space? Do you think they will come back to take sov?
No mate, they dont want the sov, they just want to live in null and they are half of the players, did you know that? Small corps cant just hold sov, they dont want to fight all day long, they dont care about cta´s (some of them are f... tired about that), they only want to play a few hours, if they cant do that in null, well, they will do it in hs or low sec, sometimes they go into a wh just for the fun and its done, can you just imagine who will going to lose in the end? Of course, null sec will lose in the end and pvpeers in null will get bored, this is what you are asking for, when you have no targets and nothing to do what are you going to do? Mine? Wait you are not going to mine, CCP are going to give one bot for that, so you have to rat, rat, rat and rat again, of course you can always come to hs kill miners (if there are any at that time) or kill some mission runners until the day you will have nothing to kill, then you will say to yourself that you have been wrong all the time and its time for you to leave the game.
Even with dominion sov, people are not going to null just because they cant move their assets due the capital nerf... people want their assets there, not buying new ones, they have their assets.

You realized how many people have left the game since CCP have nerfed capitals and wh´s industry and mining?
2 years ago on Europe primetime we had about 54.000 players, now we have at the most 32.000, this sounds good to you? CCP are collecting what he have seeded.
Kayi Brixius
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#195 - 2015-08-02 16:06:35 UTC
Falin Whalen wrote:
Gott Lieb wrote:
Awesome changes! CCP doing it right. It's game mechanics now, stop crying and conform. Sov holders will not be able to hold empty systems that cannot be defended from now. All your tears are about losing surplus profit. A lot of capsuleers now have more fun then ever. And guys, your whining is miserable.

Are you going to go back to crying when we get the ADM up to max in Pure Blind so that you have to actually take almost an hour rather than the 10 to 20 minute trolling that your doing presently?



To hold that up as some kind of threat means you're being mislead by the purpose of MOA or any other small alliance. It's never been about the value of that moon, pos, or station to us, it's been about the fight. It's been about undocking the ship and finding a way to make you win or lose something. If you're in MOA or any of other smaller groups, it's never been about how to get rich or to have a titan, if that was the case we would just join you. We are here to play the game and if that means spending 2 hours with an entosis link on an interceptor we will do it, and your friends whining about how easy it is for us to outrun you when you land on us with a Leviathan is fun and worth the effort. Bring us renters in Pure Blind, our new mission will be to send them running with their tails between their legs. We will show up in corms and blast their T2's out of space like we always have.


Welcome back to Null Sec.

"Keep them bubbled til they puke."-Gen Eve
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#196 - 2015-08-02 16:15:48 UTC
Tappits wrote:
Eli Stan wrote:
UAxDEATH wrote:
Alliances signed petition



I'd like to propose some questions to the above alliances:

What type of systems have you been defending? How many pilots are typically active in them, what do they do in those systems, and how far do they have to travel in order to mount a defense? Why do you want to retain those systems?

What type of systems have you been attacking? What made you want to have Sov in those systems?

Your goal should be preventing anything from being reinforced in the first place. If you cannot do that, you do not effectively hold Sov of that system and you deserve to lose it, or get burned out trying to win the capture events. You should stop fighting over those systems you can't hold on to. Getting burned out is your punishment for trying to operate in the Dominion Sov paradigm.

Interceptors are perfectly suited for effecting Aegis Sov - because the only Sov they can challenge for is unoccupied Sov, and unoccupied Sov isn't sovereignty at all. If you want to hold on to a system but can't be bothered to have pilots in it during its vulnerability window, you don't deserve to hold Sov there.

In NPC null, chasing off a lone Interceptor is incredibly easy. We simply undock. They never stay within 25km, the range of a T1 Entosis. If a hostile Interceptor is Entosing your Outpost, undock. Blap them if they stick around, enjoy the view of the stars for a little bit if fly off and ruin their Entosis cycle. If they're after a TCU or I-hub, simply warp a Navy Vex or Caracal or whatever to it. If this happens in an empty system four jumps away from anybody, you shouldn't have Sov there and it's your own fault you're burning yourself out. You need to adapt. That burnout is Aegis Sov working as intended.

And if that Interceptor is bait for a 100-pilot T3 gang on the other side of a wormhole - there's your large fleet fight you're looking for.

I do agree that there should be a sort of passive regen of defense index, so that simply going after hostile ships without bothering with your own Entosis ships is a valid defense tactic. That way defenders can put all their pilots into mobile offensive ships if they so desire. This passive regen should not happen if there is even a single node being Entosed by an attacker, so that it does not extend the time of an active attack effort.


Yep...
We are still cleaning up after domi sov… thousands of unused systems all over eve that had sov the day fozisov kicked in that needs purging of sov as there’s no other way of doing it now.
People are trying to defend these unused systems for some random resign..
There are no real wars going on. No one is actively trying to take over some one else’s space so they can live there. All that’s going on at the moment is a clean-up of dead systems and trolling to try and make people fight.



From what im seeing in this whine thread it seems like war has broken out everywhere, you just dont like the style and someone elses fun shouldnt be nerfed just because you dont like it.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Ripblade Falconpunch
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#197 - 2015-08-02 16:22:03 UTC
Nevil Kincade wrote:
After 3 evenings of pvping in Fuzzysov i already realize that it is a huge content generator and for that i love it !
Thank you for the best patch i've seen in Eve CPP !

I do strongly disagree with the blobbers complaint about harassment by smaller entities. Due to the asymmetric mechanics the attackers/harassers have to put in a multitude of the manhours for entosising that the defenders have to commit. If the Defender is twice the size of the attackers and Needs only half the Manpower when playing it right and still cant hold his space then he doesn't ******* deserve it. Period. Get out of 0.0 blobber garbage. NOW !

Of course the Carebears are crying now who have been hiding behind millions of structure hitpoints for years reducing the game to a ******** boring blob fest with no skill required but social Networking. Of course they got bad at pvp over the years that way. It's only natural if you dont keep excercising.
Sov space was always meant as something you had to earn by fighting for it and not as your birthright by inheritance. I see big alliances complaining here who outnumber us anywhere between 2:1 to 10:1 in daily Engagements. If they are not willing to split into smaller groups to contest the different aggressors because of being scared to bear the responsibility of loosing a fight against an entity that specializes into skirmishes IT IS THEIR OWN FAULT if they loose contests for timers.

If anything it is still WAY TO EASY for large alliances to defend sov after Aegis. The only way they can ever loose space is by not showing up for fights. All a numerically superior force would have to do is split up on the different command nodes. I hope that this TEAR FEST will not sway CCP to make any changes. After all this new sov System was proposed, supported and signed off by the leaders of the big alliances beforehand.
And now they are crying ...


Read until the part where someone from Mordus Angels accused somebody else of being bad at PVP. Was laughing to hard for further reading.
Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#198 - 2015-08-02 16:30:29 UTC
Kayi Brixius wrote:
Falin Whalen wrote:
Gott Lieb wrote:
Awesome changes! CCP doing it right. It's game mechanics now, stop crying and conform. Sov holders will not be able to hold empty systems that cannot be defended from now. All your tears are about losing surplus profit. A lot of capsuleers now have more fun then ever. And guys, your whining is miserable.

Are you going to go back to crying when we get the ADM up to max in Pure Blind so that you have to actually take almost an hour rather than the 10 to 20 minute trolling that your doing presently?



To hold that up as some kind of threat means you're being mislead by the purpose of MOA or any other small alliance. It's never been about the value of that moon, pos, or station to us, it's been about the fight. It's been about undocking the ship and finding a way to make you win or lose something. If you're in MOA or any of other smaller groups, it's never been about how to get rich or to have a titan, if that was the case we would just join you. We are here to play the game and if that means spending 2 hours with an entosis link on an interceptor we will do it, and your friends whining about how easy it is for us to outrun you when you land on us with a Leviathan is fun and worth the effort. Bring us renters in Pure Blind, our new mission will be to send them running with their tails between their legs. We will show up in corms and blast their T2's out of space like we always have.


Welcome back to Null Sec.

"Keep them bubbled til they puke."-Gen Eve

http://i.imgur.com/5s4kkZ1.gif

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 
Viruk Johnny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#199 - 2015-08-02 16:33:19 UTC
Oh boy, I can't wait until CCP swaps the old POS / outpost structures for the new ones, where you'll be able to entosis your way right through someone's AFK moon mining enterprise. That's going to be some good show.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#200 - 2015-08-02 16:34:38 UTC
Kalen Pavle wrote:
The fundamental problem of fozziesov is as follows:

It's not fun. It's not fun to attack a 1x system. It's not fun to attack a 6x system. It's not fun to defend any system.

This is a game. It should be fun. Instead I spend my time doing sov related stuff playing other games. Do you really want a game where the primary nullsec experience is alt-tabbing and playing another game?


Does nullsec think that burn Jita is fun for those burnt to a crisp, does nullsec think miners enjoyed hulkageddon?

Dear God the meter that registers the hypocrisy flowing out of nullsec must be pegged at 100% and straining to go behind even that percentage.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.