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Collective petition about fozziesov

First post First post First post
Author
Feris
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#221 - 2015-08-02 19:53:41 UTC
UAxDEATH wrote:
Introduction

We are the people of nullsec! Living for years in this epic and massively rich in conflict environment, we set aside our differences to join forces against destructive actions from CCP against sovereignty mechanics.

The new game mechanics, called by many fozziesov, turned out to be the greatest discrimination against nullsec dwellers in all of EVE Online history. This untested release shouldn’t build the platform for life in 0.0 for the most organized, united and active part of New Eden. Alliance leaders, who signed this statement, have collected enormous amount of proof that confirms this statement.
We, like no one else, can see that this release leads to stagnation in 0.0 and death to nullsec. Only in a short while since the release, we have collected a record amount of negative opinions about the new sov. We combined our strengths and analyzed, what does it mean to live in fozziesov for the nullsec people.

Our opinion is - this game mechanics needs to be tweaked and the shortest time possible.

Problems and suggestions


Problem: fozziesov in its current state critically reduces chances for large scale fights, fights that significantly separate EVE Online from its competitors. Large amount of spawned beacons, motivates sides to not engage, but to hunt down ships fitted with entosis link. In one of those cases, to defend off 2 structures players spent 6 hours of game time, most of which was spent jumping through gates and warping around in systems. Pilots who took part in all of this were rewarded with exhaustion and emptiness, instead of glory from being victorious and enjoyment from the overall process. Besides that, fleet commanding and fleet bonus structure took a hit as well. We want massive fights, not cockroach races.
Solution: reduction of beacons (nodes) , to about 1-3 per system, which are located next to a contested structure.

Problem: low skill requirement practically affirms harassment towards any sov owner. While new player harassment is subject to a support ticket. Roaming fleets or interceptors shouldn’t be able to affect sovereignty. The game mechanics shouldn't be a tool to force exhausting actions upon players - a single ship can force entire alliance of players to take part in tiresome and hollow defence. Currently the entosis link module is a tool for trolls, not a key to sovereignty contest.
Solution: reduce the amount of tactics that create invulnerable situations, which are currently based on ship’s speed. Entosis module should reduce speed dramatically, up to 0 m/s.

Problem: CCP didn’t give the right interface tools for players to engage in sov-wars, every aspect of ever changing situation has to be memorized, written down somewhere and kept up to date. This results in quick exhaustion and aggravation towards the game instead of enjoyment.
Solution: introduction of a new sov window, similar to watchlist, that displays information about structures/nodes that are being defended or attacked using entosis module, with pilot's nickname, solar system, structure id and progress.

Problem: fozziesov has a potential exploit in relation to Entosis Link II - using this module allows attackers to do a quick 2 minute cycle, which sets structure vulnerable, regardless of vulnerability period or until the status of vulnerable structure becomes known to its owner. Vulnerable structure can be noticed after a close inspection. This aspect of game mechanics negates vulnerability period.
Solution: remove vulnerability from such structures at the the end of the vulnerability period, but allow owners to entosis structure back up. If structure was partially attacked, it should be clearly visible.

Problem: structure that exits reinforce timer, doesn’t regenerate back, which in the old game mechanics served as a defensive mechanism against sov trolling. Attacked systems spam node beacons, which can last forever, which is discrimination against sovereignty owners - they must defend their space despite the fact that no one will show up to contest it.
Solution: a new type of status - defended. If the nodes are not being captured by any attackers during contested campaign for a period of time dependent of defence index, then structures change from contested to defended.

Problem: notifications about attack contain no useful information except the fact of aggression (and system). Solution to this should be inclusion of information about the system, structures and nicknames of attackers. Command node names are too long, which obstructs quick overview of the system nodes and forces to expand overview window to 1/4 of the screen, just to see the full list of nodes.
Solution: to use abbreviations TCU, iHUB, Station and remove "command" from the name.

Problem: in Dominion sov, alliances had means to transfer sov between them, however long and inconvenient it was. In the new sov, this ability was removed, which is ridiculous for a sci-fi game.
Solution: allow executor corporations to transfer remotely structures via listed sov structures context menu, similar in the way it is now with the customs offices.

Conclusion


Fozziesov is currently a long, exhausting and inconvenient sovereignty warfare model. Sovereignty is absolutely unprotected against sov trolling. This game mechanics stimulates unintended usage. This situation can no longer exist in its current state. We are highly determined and if all our demands and solutions are not addressed in a week's time, we reserve the right to fight back for our game time and fun, which we were stripped off by the new game mechanics.


OMG, Fozziesov is realy working. Bring some mops for all these tears.
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#222 - 2015-08-03 00:45:57 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Or better, use it as a recruiting effort, using rookies as scouts/defenders.

Did you really just suggest we stick new players in ships orbiting laser nodes?

What the hell is wrong with you?

Do you actually want to keep new players in this game?
Kiandoshia
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#223 - 2015-08-03 01:20:48 UTC
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Or better, use it as a recruiting effort, using rookies as scouts/defenders.

Did you really just suggest we stick new players in ships orbiting laser nodes?

What the hell is wrong with you?

Do you actually want to keep new players in this game?


A lot of new players do this kind of thing on their own and a frightening number of them stick with it and end up bitter and annoyed with making ISKies ^^
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#224 - 2015-08-03 02:17:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Icycle wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Icycle wrote:


I beg to differ. Go into pure blind and see. You will be hard pressed to find many CFC's. Fade , Tribute has also alot of systems as well as space around Venal. A lot of unused systems or has very little people in system. The only real region that get alot of use is Deklein and Branch. Also its in the ratting statistics! Which also prove my point. I know where I live after all I kill in it every day and do several roams.


I too can cherry pick data points....

Let me see,

Goonswarm: 13954/103 = 135.5 pilots/system
FCON: 4896/80 = 61.2 pilots/system
Co2: 2857/34 = 84 pilots/system
Get Off My Lawn: = 2121/53 = 40 pilots/system
EXE: 1221/14 = 87 pilots/system

Compare this too Legion of Death, Shadow of Death, Brothers of Tangra and we see vastly smaller numbers as in the teens or even single digits for Shadow of Death.

Does this mean that each and every system in Deklein will have 135.5 pilots in it? No, it's an average. Some will have more, some less. Keeping in mind that not all of them will be logged in at once either.

So now we know why some alliances are struggling with Fozziesov. I'd say working as intended (note: I'm not saying it is good or bad here, but if the intent was to free up unused systems...well, sounds like it is going to happen one way or the other....). If you insist on remaining as an "elite and exclusive alliance" and also insist on holding a large number of systems....you are going to be very busy going forward in game.

This information was presented earlier too. Roll



you are repeating what i already mentioned abov about the drone region having the largest unoccupied space. CFC still has lot of space unoccupied and that forces them to do vast jumps. If it wasnt they will not be coming from declein+branch to pure blind. Wether the space is good or bad it does not make a difference. You do not live in pure blind so makes it useless having to defend it. If you want to keep them fine, more entosis for me, but dont whine then when you got to do a lot of jumps to defend. Make up your mind. You cant have everything favouring your side. You got to make a choice and select what space you want to keep. And if the space is too far, then it may not be to the best interest to protect specially if you dont live in it. Which is my point. I love gorrilla warfare and entosing is a really big plus for us.
Entosis has really given birth to gorrilla warfare, which i think its fantastic. I feel like we are going back to the old days of small numbers war which is very opposite to the piling up in a system of as many people as possible to make sure they have loaded the grid first and obtain the advantage that way and win. Large battle will happen no matter what.


The problem is the numbers don't match your claims. Goons rank 35th out of all sov holding alliances in terms of pilots/system. The top 10 are decent sized alliances many of us know who hold just a few systems (1-4) in NS like Pandemic Legion, Nulli Secunda, and NC.

If you were to, you know, actually look at the data, you'd see that those alliances that have a high number of pilots/system seem to be weathering the initial phases of Fozziesov reasonably well. Those who do not post threadnaughts on the forums.

Edit: Also, the CFC/Imperium was one of the few coalitions to actually try and adapt Fozziesov prior to Fozziesov hitting the game. They dropped quite a bit of sov and reshuffled things around. The signatories of this petition on the other hand sat on their hands and did nothing.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#225 - 2015-08-03 02:21:45 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
I too can cherry pick data points....

Let me see,

Goonswarm: 13954/103 = 135.5 pilots/system
FCON: 4896/80 = 61.2 pilots/system
Co2: 2857/34 = 84 pilots/system
Get Off My Lawn: = 2121/53 = 40 pilots/system
EXE: 1221/14 = 87 pilots/system

Compare this too Legion of Death, Shadow of Death, Brothers of Tangra and we see vastly smaller numbers as in the teens or even single digits for Shadow of Death.

You should hang out with RU community sometimes. If someone thought that "textbook goon" had a low opinion on average "pubbie", he'd have a lot to re-evaluate after the experience.

And you guys are suggesting them to not just tolerate, but recruit such people. Jokes on you.

Roll


Adapt or die...guess we know what will happen to the Russians then.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#226 - 2015-08-03 03:29:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
Kiandoshia wrote:
Ninjafaq wrote:
Fozziesov is the best thing happened in Eve for a long time. Finally sov alliances get to really defend their space and mostly the space they don't use.


Yeah, troll ceptors avoiding trollceptors while trollceptors avoid trollceptors and oops, it's over already! Let's wait for the next vulnerability window.

It's not fun, not for the attacker and not for the defender.

I remember someone saying that trollceptors were not going to be a thing and here we are, trollceptoring the **** and will to log in out of each other :D


So you are claiming that the people attacking arent having fun, come on they wouldnt do it if they didnt.

The person not having fun is the person being agressed but that is the case in about 99% of all combat in EVE, so suck it up and either do or dont, your CHOICE, word emphasized because that is what EVE is about.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#227 - 2015-08-03 04:05:18 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
I too can cherry pick data points....

Let me see,

Goonswarm: 13954/103 = 135.5 pilots/system
FCON: 4896/80 = 61.2 pilots/system
Co2: 2857/34 = 84 pilots/system
Get Off My Lawn: = 2121/53 = 40 pilots/system
EXE: 1221/14 = 87 pilots/system

Compare this too Legion of Death, Shadow of Death, Brothers of Tangra and we see vastly smaller numbers as in the teens or even single digits for Shadow of Death.

You should hang out with RU community sometimes. If someone thought that "textbook goon" had a low opinion on average "pubbie", he'd have a lot to re-evaluate after the experience.

And you guys are suggesting them to not just tolerate, but recruit such people. Jokes on you.

Roll


Adapt or die...guess we know what will happen to the Russians then.

They'll be fine because the hordes from highsec only care to gun for us

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#228 - 2015-08-03 05:22:21 UTC
Silvia Heart wrote:
Shonion wrote:
It is working as intend.

There are no sov wars ongoing in EVE or just some small scale local fights for not much important systems or taking space undefended. Almost 3 weeks spent in the new system, and its visilbe, that if you not live in your space, your defense multiplier will be close to 1 and you can easily lost the system. You shouldn't own regions without manpower and ppl living out there. Thats the point.

As someone already mentioned earlier, the new system prefer the preventing defense, so if you live there, your defens multiplier is high then troll ceptors will need 60 mins for reinforce anything in a 3 hour window and your primary interest to defend yous space preventively, so kill that damn ceptor.

Well if you not live there, you deserve to lose that space... the old style renter empires are over. Goons already adapting instead of typing wall of text on forum.


This is funny coming from someone who has no sov and does nothing but fly troll ceptors. We've tried fighting nulli, all we've found is they run away even faster then darkeshi.

I have nothing really against the idea of fozzie sov but its just so broken and lopsided.

My suggestions for fixing it (everyone who has sov has some).
-Hard cap the speed of etosis ships, T1 1000m/s T2 1500m/s
-If no nodes are being attacked the defender gets 5% back ever hour.

Done fixed, maybe then we'll get some fights out of this joke instead of experiencing world of cowards.


I read this as: I want CCP to nerf legitimate fighting tactics because im grossly incompetent and cant kill anything moving faster than 1500m/s.

Did i get that right?

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#229 - 2015-08-03 05:40:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
Gimme Sake wrote:

Games should be fun, not a love hate relationship. If games stop being fun they become something we try to get detached from and relax: REALITY. Reality with the daily mundane grind and eventual cubicle romance decorated with post-it sentimental reminders to buy toilet paper on the way back home.
And so it goes Eve online seems more and more like a failing marriage. A lot of effort put into it but... ya know. Yeah I know Eve is real but... ya know.
Alt tabbing to play another game while playing a game is... ya know... adultery. CCP better not ask what other people are playing while alt tabbing, might find out they're being cheated with Farmville... ya know...



HI !

Im EVE i guess we never met before, well things are going to be tough for you if you keep clinging to your current belief about how i intend to treat you !

*punches you in the crotch*

Is it clearer now?

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#230 - 2015-08-03 07:20:26 UTC
CCP has gone and pissed off the Russians. They'll have only themselves to blame when they start receiving packages laced with rare radioactive isotopes.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#231 - 2015-08-03 07:36:42 UTC
Feris wrote:
OMG, Fozziesov is realy working. Bring some mops for all these tears.

pretty much, although it does seem to me a few bits could use some polish. Some parts that shouldn't be annoying are way too annoying. And other aspects are no where near annoying enough. Troll ceptors are boring, troll devs are better Twisted

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

flakeys
Doomheim
#232 - 2015-08-03 07:40:43 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
CCP has gone and pissed off the Russians. They'll have only themselves to blame when they start receiving packages laced with rare radioactive isotopes.



So what?No more free wodka at CCP office ? Roll

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#233 - 2015-08-03 07:55:37 UTC
Can we hold the tears until phase three launches guys?

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!

Icycle
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#234 - 2015-08-03 08:42:05 UTC
Release the space you dont live in Pure Blind.
Dont and suffer the consequences coming to protect them.
And stop whining for trying to protect space you dont live in.
Its your fault!
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#235 - 2015-08-03 08:56:41 UTC
Sapporo Jones wrote:
We tend to see one or two people in interceptors or frigs/dessies who run the second you form to defend. There are times when you see 4 person omen navy fleets and you fight them, there are no real skirmishes anymore over sov as far as I can tell. Gone are the large fleet battles that we came to nullsec for in the first place.


thats because you tend to just blob anything that comes to fight to hell and back Blink

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#236 - 2015-08-03 09:57:56 UTC
So yesterday someone tried to entosis a PL TCU in a 1x system.
I was able to burn to the system in a inti get on grid to see it’s a 4k/s vaga 200km off.. I burn at him and he burns away… he then left and never came back. Someone un-entisised the tcu and we went home.

Op success, that’s how you defend in fozzie sov boys and girls.
Nituspar
Shiva
Northern Coalition.
#237 - 2015-08-03 10:16:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Nituspar
Tappits wrote:
So yesterday someone tried to entosis a PL TCU in a 1x system.
I was able to burn to the system in a inti get on grid to see it’s a 4k/s vaga 200km off.. I burn at him and he burns away… he then left and never came back. Someone un-entisised the tcu and we went home.

Op success, that’s how you defend in fozzie sov boys and girls.


Now if you could just repeat this 50-1000 times, and write the next post accurately describing the amount of fun you had doing this from op 35 onwards. I think we'd all be a bit more enlightened on why a system that seems to promote sovlasering structures without any conflict being necessary, or fights occurring possibly being a bit flawed.

Bonus points for alarmclocking for a chase or two, since most reinforces will usually be done at the worst possible timezone for you the second you let your indexes slip.
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#238 - 2015-08-03 10:31:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tappits
Nituspar wrote:
Tappits wrote:
So yesterday someone tried to entosis a PL TCU in a 1x system.
I was able to burn to the system in a inti get on grid to see it’s a 4k/s vaga 200km off.. I burn at him and he burns away… he then left and never came back. Someone un-entisised the tcu and we went home.

Op success, that’s how you defend in fozzie sov boys and girls.


Now if you could just repeat this 50-1000 times, and write the next post accurately describing the amount of fun you had doing this from op 35 onwards. I think we'd all be a bit more enlightened on why a system that seems to promote sovlasering structures without any conflict being necessary, or fights occurring possibly being a bit flawed.

Bonus points for alarmclocking for a chase or two, since most reinforces will usually be done at the worst possible timezone for you the second you let your indexes slip.


Or we could just let the guy entosis it and then never bother going to the system because the lone guy will never come back to do 2-3h of work on something in a system no one cares about all while us not loosing the benefit of the sov in the 1st place.

Yep yep i think we will do that.
I was just pointing out its super easy to get to a system and stop some one entosising and if some one was actively ratting or mining in there it would be even easier.
we also don't need to alarmclock for anything because we have a a fully active AUTZ who are more than willing to log in and feed to people.
Silvia Heart
Farmhouse.
Simple Farmers
#239 - 2015-08-03 11:16:23 UTC
Nituspar wrote:
Tappits wrote:
So yesterday someone tried to entosis a PL TCU in a 1x system.
I was able to burn to the system in a inti get on grid to see it’s a 4k/s vaga 200km off.. I burn at him and he burns away… he then left and never came back. Someone un-entisised the tcu and we went home.

Op success, that’s how you defend in fozzie sov boys and girls.


Now if you could just repeat this 50-1000 times, and write the next post accurately describing the amount of fun you had doing this from op 35 onwards. I think we'd all be a bit more enlightened on why a system that seems to promote sovlasering structures without any conflict being necessary, or fights occurring possibly being a bit flawed.

Bonus points for alarmclocking for a chase or two, since most reinforces will usually be done at the worst possible timezone for you the second you let your indexes slip.


This guys speaks the truth, there's a massive difference between scaring away one random etosis troll and trying to fend of a persistent group of them that keep on coming back at the worst times.

We both know this because he's the troll and i am on the receiving end. Its not fun, its extremely frustrating and again we get almost no fights. He has gotten a few good kills but considering everything i wouldn't say its worth doing for the occasional kill and getting kills because your enemies are falling asleep and be driven mad by all the RNG timers and massively time consuming nodes is not good for the game in the long term.
Crystalline Entity
Black Dragon PHP
Darwinism.
#240 - 2015-08-03 12:22:06 UTC
As corporation recruiter for Mortum Ravagers I have to say.

lol nerds.. come to lowsec and fight like real men.