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Drifter Incursions

Author
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
Snuffed Out
#81 - 2015-08-13 10:24:30 UTC
Oxide Ammar wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
here we go again...everyone knows fighting 5bil battleship fleets with ample logi isnt really going to happen when concord are watching your back, hense why you dont do them in null and lowsec because you would get smashed and you know it.

what other activities in highsec can you make more isk per account with same risks again?


Provide me with kill report happened recently of low sec/null sec fleet got totally wiped because of another fleet managed to kill them.

The 5 bill incursion pirate BS is about efficiency not ******* show off, you can work your math to figure out the difference between scrub T1 BS with T2 fit vs Vindi with blue fit. If you can't comprehend what I'm say then keep babbling about risk vs reward stereo typing. Please tell us more about the risk vs. reward in nullsec for the carrier ratters who are aligned to POS somewhere and waiting for neut to enter system and warp away.


well if its such a great thing why dont you do them in lowsec and null, enlighten me why you are so caught up with remaining in highsec to do incursions? oh yeah carriers and ratting supers die all the time in nullsec and lowsec so what you talking about?

you are a hypocrite, if your incursion fleets are so great go do the incursions in low and null, but you wont because you know highsec is safer and you dont need to risk your ships to do them when the payout is not worth the risk. yes risk vs reward is the reason you stay in highsec

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#82 - 2015-08-13 10:30:43 UTC
Or possibly that most of the incursion community live in high sec. And thus don't do them in low and null because it's hostile space belonging to other corps and alliances....
But that doesn't fit so nicely with your story.
Nor does the fact that the communities have built themselves around being inclusive while low and null by their very nature require more closed trusted Corp groups.
Or the fact that some of those corps and alliances who live out there actually do do low sec and null incursions.
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
Snuffed Out
#83 - 2015-08-13 10:37:02 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Or possibly that most of the incursion community live in high sec. And thus don't do them in low and null because it's hostile space belonging to other corps and alliances....
But that doesn't fit so nicely with your story.
Nor does the fact that the communities have built themselves around being inclusive while low and null by their very nature require more closed trusted Corp groups.
Or the fact that some of those corps and alliances who live out there actually do do low sec and null incursions.


most of the incursion community are npc alts from null alliances

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#84 - 2015-08-13 10:40:32 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:

most of the incursion community are npc alts from null alliances

Citation required.
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
Snuffed Out
#85 - 2015-08-13 10:45:21 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:

most of the incursion community are npc alts from null alliances

Citation required.


you know its true you're just refusing to accept it Cool

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2015-08-14 03:36:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Kinete Jenius
Black Pedro wrote:
I cannot. It is not possible for one or a couple players to gank an active incursion group because of the attentive logi. The free protection of highsec scales quite well with numbers so incursion runners are pretty much invincible. I would need several times more players than the incursion group to do it and I do not have the resources.

I had hoped that one day I would be proven wrong and someone would stop the farmers (even the Goons tried but failed), but I won't get the chance as it seems now CCP has killed the incursion farms for us. Can't say I am going to complain though.

I don't see why you are so defensive. If you enjoy the current incursions, I am sure the challenge of the new ones will "amuse" you as well. And if they prove too hard for you, you can just go back to your "other activities" that make you more ISK.

It is quite possible to gank incursion runners and your lack of imagination or inexperience is working against you.

They "failed" with the pipebomb because they panicked during the lag and turned on then off their smart bombs. if they had just hit the hotkeys once and let things roll it would of went far better. Regardless they still managed to get kills.

Lan Wang wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:

most of the incursion community are npc alts from null alliances

Citation required.


you know its true you're just refusing to accept it Cool
That's a lie.

My citation is the tax rate on NPC corps. Spend 20 minutes and look for yourself at an incursion. One man corps galore.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2015-08-14 04:01:23 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
It hasn't been announced but the writing is on the wall for the Sansha incurions in highsec. These Drifter ones are significantly harder and feature guaranteed ship loss so no one will run them if both co-exist. They will either have to pay significantly more than the Sansha incursions, which isn't going to happen as CCP thinks incursions already pay too much, or the Sansha ones will be removed from highsec/have their payouts slashed dramatically.

I think politically it would be easier for CCP to just move the Sansha ones to low and null, and make the Drifters highsec only so the whining from incursions runners can be countered with "but we replaced it with exciting new PvE like you have been asking for!".

It's a good solution. CCP can increase risk on highsec incursion runners with a mechanism they can tune as players figure the Drifters out to keep things challenging and less easy-mode farmable as the Sansha ones have been for many years now.
The writing is on the wall for a drifter incursion in Amarr space, but as it has existed on sisi the scope doesn't suggest a global highsec swap. Rather just the next phase of this storyline for now.

The feature is actually named "Defense of the Throne worlds" after all.

And from what has been said, no, it's not going to be any politically easier to swap the drifter incursions in. Not if player feedback is any part of that equation.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#88 - 2015-08-14 06:09:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
Kinete Jenius wrote:
It is quite possible to gank incursion runners and your lack of imagination or inexperience is working against you.

It is not. You can mess with them from the inside, or gank them when they move between incursions, but an active incursion with 4B tanked ships covered by attentive logi are invincible, at least to anyone without a hundred players and tens of billions of ISK to throw at the problem (which could still fail anyway due to server limitations). I don't have that.

Anything else are just stories you incursion runners tell yourselves around the campfire to scare each other. Like the boogeyman, they don't exist. You are 100% safe from gankers and the lack of ganks on the killboards proves that statistic.

Tyberius Franklin wrote:
]The writing is on the wall for a drifter incursion in Amarr space, but as it has existed on sisi the scope doesn't suggest a global highsec swap. Rather just the next phase of this storyline for now.

The feature is actually named "Defense of the Throne worlds" after all.

And from what has been said, no, it's not going to be any politically easier to swap the drifter incursions in. Not if player feedback is any part of that equation.
Players will not have a choice - they are going to rage about the loss of their easy ISK no matter what. There is a clear pattern in that almost all changes since CCP Seagull has been in charge have been to increase risk for players (to stimulate loss and the economy) so it makes sense that that train is about to arrive in highsec.

Unless this incursion turns out to be just a one-off that goes for a few weeks, they will replace Sansha in all of highsec. Players will just move out of Domain and ignore them otherwise. I expect though that CCP will want to make sure they are working, so probably both will co-exist for a bit (maybe they'll be in the Throne Worlds for a few weeks/months, and when they spread to all of highsec is when Sansha leaves), but I also wouldn't be surprised if the day this goes on Tranquility is the day after the last Sansha incursion took place in highsec.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2015-08-14 07:22:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Black Pedro wrote:
Players will not have a choice - they are going to rage anout the loss of their easy ISK no matter what. There is a clear pattern in that almost all changes since CCP Seagull has been in charge have been to increase risk for players (to stimulate loss and the economy) so it makes sense that that train is about to arrive in highsec.
IF that comes to pass sure, but that doesn't justify the claim of it being politically better. Fundamentally no one has a real choice in CCP's decisions, this is no different. I just responded to the statement you made suggesting drifter incursions would somehow make such a change more widely accepted. (That or misunderstood what "politically better" meant)

Black Pedro wrote:
Unless this incursion turns out to be just a one-off that goes for a few weeks, they will replace Sansha in all of highsec. Players will just move out of Domain and ignore them otherwise. I expect though that CCP will want to make sure they are working, so probably both will co-exist for a bit (maybe they'll be in the Throne Worlds for a few weeks/months, and when they spread to all of highsec is when Sansha leaves), but I also wouldn't be surprised if the day this goes on Tranquility is the day after the last Sansha incursion took place in highsec.
The first line here seems rather presumptuous. There isn't much reason to believe the events here couldn't be used elsewhere for further story developments or even coexist long term with some for of unique reward. As they are now they are tied to one empire and we really have no idea how things will play out. As it stands this prophecy itself isn't very convincing for any evidence presented in it's favor (of which there is none more than any other theory including single run event).

I'd love to know where the faith comes from for this theory. If it's just the stance you believe they have on incursions it should be noted the most recent thing they did to them was giving a buff.

As far as people moving out of Domain, there was no mandate to stay in any incursion constellation ever, why would that change now?
Black Pedro
Mine.
#90 - 2015-08-14 07:55:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
IF that comes to pass sure, but that doesn't justify the claim of it being politically better. Fundamentally no one has a real choice in CCP's decisions, this is no different. I just responded to the statement you made suggesting drifter incursions would somehow make such a change more widely accepted. (That or misunderstood what "politically better" meant)
I meant that there would be less of an uproar if they just remove the old ones, rather than nerf the payout to the levels that would be necessary to make players choose the Drifter ones over the Sansha ones. It would be politically easier for CCP to claim they are replacing the old, tired incursions with exciting new ones. Then CCP isn't "nerfing" anything, just making them better.

In any case though people are going to whine and complain. It happened when they increased risk in wormholes with the spawning changes, and the change to warpable anomalies. Anytime CCP messes with people's comfortable income source there will be complaints.

Tyberius Franklin wrote:
The first line here seems rather presumptuous. There isn't much reason to believe the events here couldn't be used elsewhere for further story developments or even coexist long term with some for of unique reward. As they are now they are tied to one empire and we really have no idea how things will play out. As it stands this prophecy itself isn't very convincing for any evidence presented in it's favor (of which there is none more than any other theory including single run event).

I'd love to know where the faith comes from for this theory. If it's just the stance you believe they have on incursions it should be noted the most recent thing they did to them was giving a buff.

It is just simple logic. There is no way an "easy" incursion can live next to a "hard" incursion. If they pay the same, 95% of the people will run the "easy" one. They cannot buff the "hard" payout significantly as incursions already pay a lot (see the CSM minutes I linked above) so the only choice is to reduce the payout for the "easy" or remove the "easy" completely.

Now it could a one-off event for lore, or provide some unique reward, or CCP could do something completely unexpected with them. I have no inside information. But really, incursions (and all NPC PvE really) are due for a revamp so I doubt CCP would spend the time developing this unless they intended to make them a permanent part of the game. If so, there is no real way for them to keep both incursions, at least if they want these new ones to be run at all.

We'll all find out in time I guess.
Prt Scr
569th Freelancers
#91 - 2015-08-14 08:33:42 UTC
SPOILER ALERT;

This is all part of CCP's plans for structures. We know that they do not like massed outposts in null sec and so they plan do remove them and replace them with citadels. However so as not to show favouritism to the established null sec power power blocks they are going to use the drifters to remove them all :)

uɐıssnɹ pɐǝɹ ʇ,uɐɔ ı ʇnq ʎɹɹos ɯ,ı

Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#92 - 2015-08-14 20:26:49 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
It is not. You can mess with them from the inside, or gank them when they move between incursions, but an active incursion with 4B tanked ships covered by attentive logi are invincible, at least to anyone without a hundred players and tens of billions of ISK to throw at the problem (which could still fail anyway due to server limitations). I don't have that.

Anything else are just stories you incursion runners tell yourselves around the campfire to scare each other. Like the boogeyman, they don't exist. You are 100% safe from gankers and the lack of ganks on the killboards proves that statistic.

I can't believe you're so clueless that you actually think the best time to try to gank incursion runners is when their ships are using anti-gank fits and their bling isn't even guaranteed to be on board. No wonder you've had no success.

I've had several gank attempts on my main fleet and my booster. Unlike most incursion runners my booster has a fat tank (280k ehp) so it took 10 catas fairly easily. That gank fleet went on to take out a few boosters and some incursion runners (battleships). Those ganks caused people to mostly stop running incursions in that focus. I continued to run as I have logi that have 10x the EHP and 2x the repping power of logi normally used by public fleets. I did make damned sure to pay extra attention to local and dscan.

I have run from gank fleets before and I've gotten away simply because of either luck or because I pay attention to local and dscan (I'm always creating safe spots too).


At this point I'm torn in that while I would love to give you information on avenues of attack I also don't want to help someone attack me :P
Alex Rax
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2015-08-15 14:55:57 UTC
It's a shame i have -9.99 Amarr rep otherwise I'd participate.
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
#94 - 2015-08-15 16:07:36 UTC
Alex Rax wrote:
It's a shame i have -9.99 Amarr rep otherwise I'd participate.



Having to sacrifice one ship for every drifter you kill?

Think I'll pass on that one.

Nice to see Amarr getting smacked around by those mechanics though.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#95 - 2015-08-15 22:36:37 UTC
Alex Rax wrote:
It's a shame i have -9.99 Amarr rep otherwise I'd participate.

Then fix it, It won't take long between diplomacy and SoE epic arcs done in fleet while you sit in a pod.
If you are serious don't make excuses, do something.
Lisbethae Kashuken
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#96 - 2015-08-25 18:17:57 UTC
Not sure if you really failed to read the info or it was fake, thus swiftly discarded, but someone wrote that it was confirmed the Drifters incursions would spread to nearby systems ( if they aren't completed i suppose ). If this is true, it doesn't matter if you LIKEit or not, you'll just have to do those sites, unless you want every highsec system camped by Drifters. Once again, not sure if the information is correct, but if it is, then players will HAVE TO run those sites or suffer the consequences !

I'm talking about this quote:

Quote:
Afterwards, Paradox confirmed that the Drifter incursions will spread to adjacent systems over time. I do believe that in addition to incursion sites, Drifters will attack you on stations, gates, wormholes....pretty much anywhere you can sit in space.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#97 - 2015-08-25 18:48:45 UTC
No one plays EvE for the isk.

IMO CCP is doing a great job here.
Fozzy SOV, more Lore, Citadels, drifters.
Adding storytelling and changes in the game mechanics go hand in hand.
Making it easier to accept the changes and adapt the chaning situation.

I like what came until now and i am curios whats next.


Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#98 - 2015-08-25 19:26:14 UTC
So... a new type of incursion with ships that can Death Ray a bling boat.

And what's this? If nobody does the PVe it might affect the regions of the high-exalted PVP? I gotta look that one up.

Methinks CCP has gone "Viking" on us.


BRING THE PAIN!!!!! Twisted

I'm up to three accounts now, and for 8 out of 9 of my years playing I only had ONE.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Pryce Caesar
Cloak and Daggers
Initiative Mercenaries
#99 - 2015-08-26 01:33:19 UTC
Lisbethae Kashuken wrote:
Not sure if you really failed to read the info or it was fake, thus swiftly discarded, but someone wrote that it was confirmed the Drifters incursions would spread to nearby systems ( if they aren't completed i suppose ). If this is true, it doesn't matter if you LIKEit or not, you'll just have to do those sites, unless you want every highsec system camped by Drifters. Once again, not sure if the information is correct, but if it is, then players will HAVE TO run those sites or suffer the consequences !

I'm talking about this quote:

Quote:
Afterwards, Paradox confirmed that the Drifter incursions will spread to adjacent systems over time. I do believe that in addition to incursion sites, Drifters will attack you on stations, gates, wormholes....pretty much anywhere you can sit in space.


That is going to be freakin' murder if new players end up in parts of space where the Drifter incursion has spread - or any player for that matter.

I still hope that, with the prominence of Drifter ships in the game, that the possibility will be opened up that players will be able to fly Drifter ships, but that the Drifter ships will require very high skill levels in certain areas.
Leonis Perthshire
Unholy Knights of Cthulhu
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#100 - 2015-08-26 01:50:54 UTC
If someone could try etnosis one drifter ship and then primary it might be would help.
Becusse when the etnosis thing was discover drifter attack them and if they did that is because they consider it a risk for them.

“If you win, you live. If you lose, you die. If you don’t fight, you can’t win!” – Eren Jaeger

White Maul