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Did anyone else throw up a little in their mouth when they went to do PI?

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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#1 - 2011-12-05 20:30:21 UTC
Seriously... What the hell...
Prices have been raised to ridiculous levels, and to top it off, we have to spend 3 billion years destroying the old customs offices now as CCP decided not to remove them like they promised!

Now its basically impossible to make any sort of cash from PI.

CCP, when making price changes, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE bear in mind that sometimes you pay multiple fees. Its not possible to produce everything on one planet, so with multiple export and import fees being done along production, even the best laid out planet structures are costing nearly 50% in tax by the time you reach the final product.

I know PI used to be low risk high profit, but chucking a 200x multiplier (yes folks, 200x, not 200%) on taxes is a bit overboard!

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#2 - 2011-12-05 20:33:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Lucas Kell wrote:

Prices have been raised to ridiculous levels

Now its basically impossible to make any sort of cash from PI.


These two statements are incompatible.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Handsome Hussein
#3 - 2011-12-05 20:34:27 UTC
There are several threads about this, why do you feel the need to clutter the forum with this one?

Lucas Kell wrote:
Now its basically impossible to make any sort of cash from PI.

I used to think this too, and then i realized that prices will stabilize at some point so you can make about as much money as before. Meanwhile, low-sec and null-sec producers get a boost (more risk, more reward), and wormhole producers just get to spend a bunch of money in order to get their fuel for free.

Leaves only the fresh scent of pine.
Barakkus
#4 - 2011-12-05 20:35:02 UTC
3 billion years?
I know some people that took down one relatively quickly. Get moar guns.
Taxes aren't that bad.

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#5 - 2011-12-05 20:35:48 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:

Prices have been raised to ridiculous levels

Now its basically impossible to make any sort of cash from PI.


These two statements are incompatible.


How?
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#6 - 2011-12-05 20:36:01 UTC
The prices of all PI commodities, as well as anything T2 is already adjusting to compensate on the market.

For example, T2 drones (Hammerhead II's) have already risen in price nearly 100K ISK to compensate since last week.
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#7 - 2011-12-05 20:37:14 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
CCP decided not to remove them like they promised!


I know that they said that some Customs Offices would be transferred to InterBus, but I never heard them promise to remove Customs Offices.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#8 - 2011-12-05 20:41:48 UTC
I know the prices will adjust, but since the PI import/export will now be based on market price, as the market price increases, the import export tax will also increase, so the price will always be in flux. And theres a limit to what people will pay for PI mats.

Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
CCP decided not to remove them like they promised!


I know that they said that some Customs Offices would be transferred to InterBus, but I never heard them promise to remove Customs Offices.

Then read the original blog. They never said nullsec would get a default 17% tax, and have to shoot down their customs offices.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#9 - 2011-12-05 20:57:10 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
I know the prices will adjust, but since the PI import/export will now be based on market price, as the market price increases, the import export tax will also increase, so the price will always be in flux. And theres a limit to what people will pay for PI mats.

Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
CCP decided not to remove them like they promised!


I know that they said that some Customs Offices would be transferred to InterBus, but I never heard them promise to remove Customs Offices.

Then read the original blog. They never said nullsec would get a default 17% tax, and have to shoot down their customs offices.


I highlighted your problem.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#10 - 2011-12-05 21:00:37 UTC
Aphoxema G wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:

Prices have been raised to ridiculous levels

Now its basically impossible to make any sort of cash from PI.


These two statements are incompatible.


How?


Market prices for PI products are already rising to compensate for increased taxes, as is inevitable.

The goods I have sold from a few High Sec planets have already netted me more profit than before the expansion, despite the new taxes.

The more market prices rise the easier it is to make money from PI.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#11 - 2011-12-05 21:08:25 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Aphoxema G wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:

Prices have been raised to ridiculous levels

Now its basically impossible to make any sort of cash from PI.


These two statements are incompatible.


How?


Market prices for PI products are already rising to compensate for increased taxes, as is inevitable.

The goods I have sold from a few High Sec planets have already netted me more profit than before the expansion, despite the new taxes.

The more market prices rise the easier it is to make money from PI.

I think your missing the point. The tax price will increase as the market price increases so it will always be % of market price. If you have to pay 10% tax per import and 10% tax per export, then even if you only do export -> import -> export -> import -> export, you pay 50% overall tax by the time you reach the high level materials, regardless of sale price.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2011-12-05 21:14:18 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Seriously... What the hell...
Prices have been raised to ridiculous levels, and to top it off, we have to spend 3 billion years destroying the old customs offices now as CCP decided not to remove them like they promised!

Now its basically impossible to make any sort of cash from PI.

CCP, when making price changes, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE bear in mind that sometimes you pay multiple fees. Its not possible to produce everything on one planet, so with multiple export and import fees being done along production, even the best laid out planet structures are costing nearly 50% in tax by the time you reach the final product.

I know PI used to be low risk high profit, but chucking a 200x multiplier (yes folks, 200x, not 200%) on taxes is a bit overboard!



OP: You're doing it wrong on basically all counts. You can still print insane amounts of ISK with PI just not ~as~ insane as before. As for IBCO popping. Get some friends, Get a 3rd Tier BC (more than one) and make it a party.

Your comment on taxes is also wrong. i'm paying like 20% which sucks when you factor in the fact that I was paying 1% before.

Stop bellyaching, adapt, overcome, rinse ~and~ repeat.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-12-05 21:15:33 UTC
Man up

1. Get you corpmates to help destroy Customs office
2. Anhor your new POCO
3. Pass on PI taxes to the consumer (like most business do)
4. ???
5. Profit!

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#14 - 2011-12-05 21:24:12 UTC
IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Seriously... What the hell...
Prices have been raised to ridiculous levels, and to top it off, we have to spend 3 billion years destroying the old customs offices now as CCP decided not to remove them like they promised!

Now its basically impossible to make any sort of cash from PI.

CCP, when making price changes, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE bear in mind that sometimes you pay multiple fees. Its not possible to produce everything on one planet, so with multiple export and import fees being done along production, even the best laid out planet structures are costing nearly 50% in tax by the time you reach the final product.

I know PI used to be low risk high profit, but chucking a 200x multiplier (yes folks, 200x, not 200%) on taxes is a bit overboard!



OP: You're doing it wrong on basically all counts. You can still print insane amounts of ISK with PI just not ~as~ insane as before. As for IBCO popping. Get some friends, Get a 3rd Tier BC (more than one) and make it a party.

Your comment on taxes is also wrong. i'm paying like 20% which sucks when you factor in the fact that I was paying 1% before.

Stop bellyaching, adapt, overcome, rinse ~and~ repeat.

It's all well and good, but CCP didnt market this as "we want to **** you for taxes as we need more ISK sinks", they marketed it as "we want to give you more control". Shock horror CCP once again fails on all counts.
All I can say is its a damn good thing they made warping look so pretty.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris
#15 - 2011-12-05 21:27:15 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Shock horror CCP once again fails on all counts.
failed on all counts because YOU don't like the changes?

Got it.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#16 - 2011-12-05 21:30:55 UTC
Pesky LaRue wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Shock horror CCP once again fails on all counts.
failed on all counts because YOU don't like the changes?

Got it.

Failed on all counts, since the given idea was drasticallly altered by the time the patch is delivered, and failed on all counts as its clear they aren't looking to give more control to players. if they were, theyd allow corps to buy out the interbus offices, or give the intebus ones drastically reduced hitpoints.

They even said themselves that noone wants to spend time shootign at structures that dont shoot back. It should take less than 10 mins to clear the NPC owned ones with a group.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Barakkus
#17 - 2011-12-05 21:32:16 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Seriously... What the hell...
Prices have been raised to ridiculous levels, and to top it off, we have to spend 3 billion years destroying the old customs offices now as CCP decided not to remove them like they promised!

Now its basically impossible to make any sort of cash from PI.

CCP, when making price changes, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE bear in mind that sometimes you pay multiple fees. Its not possible to produce everything on one planet, so with multiple export and import fees being done along production, even the best laid out planet structures are costing nearly 50% in tax by the time you reach the final product.

I know PI used to be low risk high profit, but chucking a 200x multiplier (yes folks, 200x, not 200%) on taxes is a bit overboard!



OP: You're doing it wrong on basically all counts. You can still print insane amounts of ISK with PI just not ~as~ insane as before. As for IBCO popping. Get some friends, Get a 3rd Tier BC (more than one) and make it a party.

Your comment on taxes is also wrong. i'm paying like 20% which sucks when you factor in the fact that I was paying 1% before.

Stop bellyaching, adapt, overcome, rinse ~and~ repeat.

It's all well and good, but CCP didnt market this as "we want to **** you for taxes as we need more ISK sinks", they marketed it as "we want to give you more control". Shock horror CCP once again fails on all counts.
All I can say is its a damn good thing they made warping look so pretty.



No, I think the idea is an incentive for people to move out of highsec for other things and give people more control over stuff like that. Putting up your own customs office was brilliant, and probably is going to tie in with the tears that come when dust is released.

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc
Ronin Foxron
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2011-12-05 21:35:46 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Pesky LaRue wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Shock horror CCP once again fails on all counts.
failed on all counts because YOU don't like the changes?

Got it.

Failed on all counts, since the given idea was drasticallly altered by the time the patch is delivered, and failed on all counts as its clear they aren't looking to give more control to players. if they were, theyd allow corps to buy out the interbus offices, or give the intebus ones drastically reduced hitpoints.

They even said themselves that noone wants to spend time shootign at structures that dont shoot back. It should take less than 10 mins to clear the NPC owned ones with a group.


God no, then you would have all the bored teenagers shooting every interbus as they went past.
Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris
#19 - 2011-12-05 21:38:59 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Pesky LaRue wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Shock horror CCP once again fails on all counts.
failed on all counts because YOU don't like the changes?

Got it.

Failed on all counts, since the given idea was drasticallly altered by the time the patch is delivered, and failed on all counts as its clear they aren't looking to give more control to players. if they were, theyd allow corps to buy out the interbus offices, or give the intebus ones drastically reduced hitpoints.

They even said themselves that noone wants to spend time shootign at structures that dont shoot back. It should take less than 10 mins to clear the NPC owned ones with a group.

thanks for confirming that you just don't get EvE.

It takes more than 10 minutes to destroy a customs office because - whether it works or not - CCP are trying to introduce a choke-point for conflicts. By your logic, why not just have a "take down office" button that instantly dismantles it?

And your one single instance of why this doesn't suit you doesn't make this a failure. Seems to be working pretty well in our WH - we now pay zero taxes but can charge our neighbours, so by your self-involved logic, I should claim this is a complete success?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#20 - 2011-12-05 21:42:35 UTC
Pesky LaRue wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Pesky LaRue wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Shock horror CCP once again fails on all counts.
failed on all counts because YOU don't like the changes?

Got it.

Failed on all counts, since the given idea was drasticallly altered by the time the patch is delivered, and failed on all counts as its clear they aren't looking to give more control to players. if they were, theyd allow corps to buy out the interbus offices, or give the intebus ones drastically reduced hitpoints.

They even said themselves that noone wants to spend time shootign at structures that dont shoot back. It should take less than 10 mins to clear the NPC owned ones with a group.

thanks for confirming that you just don't get EvE.

It takes more than 10 minutes to destroy a customs office because - whether it works or not - CCP are trying to introduce a choke-point for conflicts. By your logic, why not just have a "take down office" button that instantly dismantles it?

And your one single instance of why this doesn't suit you doesn't make this a failure. Seems to be working pretty well in our WH - we now pay zero taxes but can charge our neighbours, so by your self-involved logic, I should claim this is a complete success?

I'm not saying all offices should be easy. I'm just saying when CCP go overnight from "ther will be no customs offices in null sec" to "there will be 17% customs offices in null sec", they should make it simpler to take them down, even if sov was required. CCP are good at doing the exact opposite of what they say they are going to do. and I'm not sayign one person should be able to take it down either, but CCP have stated themselves they dont want boring time sinks, then they introduce NPC structures that take a logn time to be destroyed, and when you have like 11 planets to clear its pretty much a boring time sink.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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