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Did anyone else throw up a little in their mouth when they went to do PI?

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Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris
#21 - 2011-12-05 21:44:46 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:

Failed on all counts, since the given idea was drasticallly altered by the time the patch is delivered
one thing we do agree on, however, is that CCP should pick an idea and just stick with it. No matter if the feedback is bad, no matter if they see flaws in thinking, no matter if it unbalances things - they need to just pick some arbitrary rules and implement them.

To please you.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#22 - 2011-12-05 21:47:12 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Aphoxema G wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:

Prices have been raised to ridiculous levels

Now its basically impossible to make any sort of cash from PI.


These two statements are incompatible.


How?


Market prices for PI products are already rising to compensate for increased taxes, as is inevitable.

The goods I have sold from a few High Sec planets have already netted me more profit than before the expansion, despite the new taxes.

The more market prices rise the easier it is to make money from PI.

I think your missing the point. The tax price will increase as the market price increases so it will always be % of market price. If you have to pay 10% tax per import and 10% tax per export, then even if you only do export -> import -> export -> import -> export, you pay 50% overall tax by the time you reach the high level materials, regardless of sale price.


With respect, I'm not the confused party here.

Prices will stabilize, with normal market fluctuations.

The market value that the tax is based on is not recalculated constantly.

People that think percentage based taxes mean a continual upward spiral in price don't understand economics.

You pay a 10% export fee and a 5% import fee.

Yes, the more you import and export the more tax you pay. This is causing a shift in PI infrastructure as people reconfigure to minimize this effect.

Regardless of what the minimum number of imports/exports is for a particular high tier PI item, the market price will rise to compensate for it, as is inevitable.

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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#23 - 2011-12-05 21:47:25 UTC
Pesky LaRue wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:

Failed on all counts, since the given idea was drasticallly altered by the time the patch is delivered
one thing we do agree on, however, is that CCP should pick an idea and just stick with it. No matter if the feedback is bad, no matter if they see flaws in thinking, no matter if it unbalances things - they need to just pick some arbitrary rules and implement them.

To please you.

All im saying is let people know that plans have changed. we can only prep for what were given. If they suddenly said fuel blocks would be made entirely of soil and exotic dancers and was beign switched over tomorrow, people would be pretty annoyed.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

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Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2011-12-05 21:49:16 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Did anyone else throw up a little in their mouth when they went to do PI?


No as a matter of fact, I thanked this rain of gold.
Before cursing at Zeus for having his way with my wife.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Flakey Foont
#25 - 2011-12-05 21:51:34 UTC
Where did they promise to take down the old offices? Link?
Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris
#26 - 2011-12-05 21:56:26 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Pesky LaRue wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:

Failed on all counts, since the given idea was drasticallly altered by the time the patch is delivered
one thing we do agree on, however, is that CCP should pick an idea and just stick with it. No matter if the feedback is bad, no matter if they see flaws in thinking, no matter if it unbalances things - they need to just pick some arbitrary rules and implement them.

To please you.

All im saying is let people know that plans have changed. we can only prep for what were given. If they suddenly said fuel blocks would be made entirely of soil and exotic dancers and was beign switched over tomorrow, people would be pretty annoyed.

so, you went on SiSi to test and provide feedback and were aware of changes before they went live, or are you upset because all your info was taken from the blog that, conceptually, laid out the plan?

I'm really not trying to be argumentative, but your whole point seems to be "Huh, this isn't what I expected and therefore I believe CCP have failed on all counts."
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#27 - 2011-12-05 21:59:41 UTC
Pesky LaRue wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Pesky LaRue wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:

Failed on all counts, since the given idea was drasticallly altered by the time the patch is delivered
one thing we do agree on, however, is that CCP should pick an idea and just stick with it. No matter if the feedback is bad, no matter if they see flaws in thinking, no matter if it unbalances things - they need to just pick some arbitrary rules and implement them.

To please you.

All im saying is let people know that plans have changed. we can only prep for what were given. If they suddenly said fuel blocks would be made entirely of soil and exotic dancers and was beign switched over tomorrow, people would be pretty annoyed.

so, you went on SiSi to test and provide feedback and were aware of changes before they went live, or are you upset because all your info was taken from the blog that, conceptually, laid out the plan?

I'm really not trying to be argumentative, but your whole point seems to be "Huh, this isn't what I expected and therefore I believe CCP have failed on all counts."


Yeah, I'm having alittle difficulty believing that CCP responding to overwhelming player feed back is a "fail on all counts" too.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
zama118
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2011-12-05 22:07:34 UTC
ha
tbh i quite enjoy the new tax hike

its made the price for PI rise to stupid levels which in turn has made me billions, in tadeing and selling my stock. now that i have my POCO's up there is no cost at all to my PI system which means i make 100% profit... that just profit, and before i was paying at least 30mil in tax, now 0 and im makeing 200% more on each unit i sell... i call that epic sucess (for me at least)
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#29 - 2011-12-05 22:21:52 UTC
zama118 wrote:
ha
tbh i quite enjoy the new tax hike

its made the price for PI rise to stupid levels which in turn has made me billions, in tadeing and selling my stock. now that i have my POCO's up there is no cost at all to my PI system which means i make 100% profit... that just profit, and before i was paying at least 30mil in tax, now 0 and im makeing 200% more on each unit i sell... i call that epic sucess (for me at least)


Not to mention the fact that PI is finally developing from what was at best a niche industry into something that matters, something worth... (wait for it)... fighting over.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2011-12-05 23:02:23 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Seriously... What the hell...
Prices have been raised to ridiculous levels, and to top it off, we have to spend 3 billion years destroying the old customs offices now as CCP decided not to remove them like they promised!

Now its basically impossible to make any sort of cash from PI.

CCP, when making price changes, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE bear in mind that sometimes you pay multiple fees. Its not possible to produce everything on one planet, so with multiple export and import fees being done along production, even the best laid out planet structures are costing nearly 50% in tax by the time you reach the final product.

I know PI used to be low risk high profit, but chucking a 200x multiplier (yes folks, 200x, not 200%) on taxes is a bit overboard!



OP: You're doing it wrong on basically all counts. You can still print insane amounts of ISK with PI just not ~as~ insane as before. As for IBCO popping. Get some friends, Get a 3rd Tier BC (more than one) and make it a party.

Your comment on taxes is also wrong. i'm paying like 20% which sucks when you factor in the fact that I was paying 1% before.

Stop bellyaching, adapt, overcome, rinse ~and~ repeat.

It's all well and good, but CCP didnt market this as "we want to **** you for taxes as we need more ISK sinks", they marketed it as "we want to give you more control". Shock horror CCP once again fails on all counts.
All I can say is its a damn good thing they made warping look so pretty.


No, CCP wanted another spark for conflict not an ISK sink nor was the intent to make lives easier. Problem is you're not down with defending your stuff and you're not down with paying your taxes. It is your problem and its working as intended. Personally I hope you and the rest of the no taxes/no conflict crowd abandon your PI activities all together becuase then I'll make more money.

Its not about Tears, Faucets or Sinks. Its about cold electronic cash friend and bloodshed.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
Jack Cavanaugh
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2011-12-06 00:02:03 UTC
The PI is a lie. <_<
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2011-12-06 00:12:14 UTC
man with all this badass stuff going down I feel tempted to train space-Farmville skills after a year and a half of neglect.
Jita Alt666
#33 - 2011-12-06 00:17:53 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:


All im saying is let people know that plans have changed. we can only prep for what were given. If they suddenly said fuel blocks would be made entirely of soil and exotic dancers and was beign switched over tomorrow, people would be pretty annoyed.


They did let us know plans changed. We were given the information. Some of us prepped. Some of us (YOU) didn't.
Breaker77
Reclamation Industries
#34 - 2011-12-06 00:19:21 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:

I think your missing the point. The tax price will increase as the market price increases so it will always be % of market price. If you have to pay 10% tax per import and 10% tax per export, then even if you only do export -> import -> export -> import -> export, you pay 50% overall tax by the time you reach the high level materials, regardless of sale price.


I think you are rather stupid.

If I export -> import -> export -> import -> export and I sell the item for 1 mil ISK and paid 500k ISK taxes thats 50%. If I sell the same item for 2 mil ISK and paid the same 500k ISK tak thats 25%.

Explain to me how in the hell the taxes are going to know exactly what I am going to sell my item for so the taxes can be 50%?

Reread what you posted

Quote:
you pay 50% overall tax by the time you reach the high level materials, regardless of sale price.


Yeah I don't think the game charges you 50% taxes no matter the sales price dumbass!

I call troll or idiot, but I'm willing to bet it's the latter.
zama118
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2011-12-06 00:30:51 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
zama118 wrote:
ha
tbh i quite enjoy the new tax hike

its made the price for PI rise to stupid levels which in turn has made me billions, in tadeing and selling my stock. now that i have my POCO's up there is no cost at all to my PI system which means i make 100% profit... that just profit, and before i was paying at least 30mil in tax, now 0 and im makeing 200% more on each unit i sell... i call that epic sucess (for me at least)


Not to mention the fact that PI is finally developing from what was at best a niche industry into something that matters, something worth... (wait for it)... fighting over.


yes true point

i dont think anyone is fighting over it as we speak, but once corps and such work out what they can earn they might just start to fight over it, also im quite sure that this kind of warfair will be something small corps and alliances get in to. we wont have huge alliances (0.0 ones like mine) getting involed in 0.0 or low sec wars for this stuff, its just not worth it and pratical when you have your own space.


tbh all this patch has done to PI is made it less profitable to do in high-sec which imo is exactily they way it should be
there should be no major profit unless there is some level of risk (there higher the more profit)

thumbs up for the PI changes they are a good change that will bring a bit of fun for years to come
NickyYo
modro
The Initiative.
#36 - 2011-12-06 00:33:19 UTC
Give it time, the prices will rise and so will your profits
There only low at the moment because players are getting rid of their stock.

..
zama118
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2011-12-06 00:37:18 UTC
NickyYo wrote:
Give it time, the prices will rise and so will your profits
There only low at the moment because players are getting rid of their stock.


ooo god yes we have not seen the end to shakey PI prices by far
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#38 - 2011-12-06 00:58:48 UTC
zama118 wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
zama118 wrote:
ha
tbh i quite enjoy the new tax hike

its made the price for PI rise to stupid levels which in turn has made me billions, in tadeing and selling my stock. now that i have my POCO's up there is no cost at all to my PI system which means i make 100% profit... that just profit, and before i was paying at least 30mil in tax, now 0 and im makeing 200% more on each unit i sell... i call that epic sucess (for me at least)


Not to mention the fact that PI is finally developing from what was at best a niche industry into something that matters, something worth... (wait for it)... fighting over.


yes true point

i dont think anyone is fighting over it as we speak, but once corps and such work out what they can earn they might just start to fight over it, also im quite sure that this kind of warfair will be something small corps and alliances get in to. we wont have huge alliances (0.0 ones like mine) getting involed in 0.0 or low sec wars for this stuff, its just not worth it and pratical when you have your own space.


tbh all this patch has done to PI is made it less profitable to do in high-sec which imo is exactily they way it should be
there should be no major profit unless there is some level of risk (there higher the more profit)

thumbs up for the PI changes they are a good change that will bring a bit of fun for years to come



In a thread I started about PCO's and whether they were coming under attack left and right, the feed back I got in there was that the only significant combat over PCO's was in Faction Warfare territory. The various Militia are fighting over planets in contested space, with at least the Minmatar Militia offering low tax rates in their area.

In all other aspects you are completely correct.

It was also worth noting that Star Fraction is putting up PCO's with zero tax in their area of control to encourage local commerce.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
JamesCLK
#39 - 2011-12-06 01:12:47 UTC
Savvy PI bakers don't sell their pies for less pennies than it costs to make and bake them.


-- -.-- / -.-. .-.. --- -. . / .. ... / - --- --- / . -..- .--. . -. ... .. ...- . / - --- / ..- -. -.. --- -.-. -.- / ... - --- .--. / .--. .-.. . .- ... . / ... . -. -.. / .... . .-.. .--. / ... - --- .--.
First Lieutenant Dan
Doomheim
#40 - 2011-12-06 01:18:03 UTC
Why did you throw up over a tax change in a computer game?