Ships & Modules

Battleships: Can tank twice as much as the typical BC, and deliver twice as much DPS. They are the largest DPS dealer in the sub-cab arena. Kill most BC with ease. Least amount of ISK per risk in capital engagements, POS warfare, System defense.
Needs to be piloted/fitted by well skilled, experienced pilots. Fit ACCORDING to the engagement. Tank, tracking, small ships, large ships, neut, speed, DPS, range. All can be fit according to the fleet engagement.

All pilots that want to progress past 'cruisers online' should be able to fit a T2, well skilled BS. If a corp or alliance cannot field BS, they cannot effectively evolve to the 'next' levels of EVE.

If you are advising new players to NOT train battleships, it is bad advise. You will get them killed when it comes time to fly one.
And if a whole corp of ill-skilled BS pilots undock, the results will be magnified immensely.
If you haven't been in 20 or more BS fights, you are not qualified to give such advise.

First i have to ask, why do you need 20vs40 for your T3 cruiser gang to win, if battleships are so bad would you not make a better point by using equal numbers or more battleships (if you truly think BS are as crap as you say)

What other 20man gang would win against these 40 T3s? Do you think Cruiser/HAC/T3 would do better against 2x their numbers of T3?

But then the difference between a good T2 frig (and you know you want it ) vs a T1 BS can be about the same price wise, especially as you add insurance coverage which the T2 is sort of pointless with. In fact, I rather view the typical T1 BS with T2 components (not counting rigs) as rather disposable.

For a newbie, sure it would be absolutely daunting to loose that barely fit raven, but for someone with enough skill and game exp, what an hour to replace? (with added insurance payout etc). imo it's all you really need for a T1 BS, but for the quick frig fights it's hard to skimp especially facing possibly many larger targets and needing to succeed (to break shields etc.). So his cost argument, doesn't really phase most players that know better. It seems more aimed at discouraging newbies, the thread.

Same applies to the SP cost. You are a vet, likely maxed your cruiser skills as I have. What am I going to do, OP, waste it all on PI? Leet mining skills? Hauling?? I'm a combat pilot/s, I know the worth of having all options at my disposal (apart from caps, no interest there). And quite frankly, I don't stick to the latest doctrine opinion, I've been here long enough to know that is always changing here, a need to adapt, and you are better off just flying what you find to be fun for you. I don't like themepark mentality, it's why the sandbox has been my fav for a couple decades, the options are there for you and all viable in some form.

The videos don't lie, they are just not expedient for scaring newbies as the OP would like. I recommend getting off the soapbox and having an actual discussion with the vets here, they may enlighten you on a thing or two. You might even find a fresh new way to play this... reality.

First off, the T3 is most likely triple the cost of the BS. But lets just say it's double the cost. 500 mill vs 250 mil.
40 vs 20 = quadruple the fleet cost. If I just killed 9 or 10 of them, the fight would be even, isk wise.



Can I get 20 BS to insta-pop T3's?
Well yes I can.
If they fly at close range I can tackle them, neut, web, whatever.
At close range...I might kill them faster than I could target them.
If they fly at long range, transversal is better for me, and they can't hard tackle my fleet.
My 20 man BS fleet can field 100 drones and has maybe 60 utility slots, for neuts, damps, TP, etc.
My large weapons can reach out further than their medium weapons. Their range may be my best asset.

Would I want to run into a 40 man T3 fleet? No, but I wouldn't run from it.
As a pilot, would I sacrifice my BS to get T3 kills? Every day, yep I would. Just 1 would be a great trade, but 2 to 10 would be epic fun. Either way, I'm only risking 1 BS for the opportunity.

Random numbers:

Focused fire from 40 T3:
500 DPS, ROF every 4 seconds = 2000 Alpha x 40 = 80,000 Alpha My BS could take 80,000 though with any average tank. Would need to be 2 shotted at minimum.

Focused fire from 20 BS:
1000 DPS. ROF every 6 seconds = 6000 Alpha, x 20 = 120,000 Alpha. T3's be exploding.

Weren't pretty much ALL of those videos showing solo battleships taking on larger numbers of ships?
I know the one with the Armageddon was all about it.
There were others as well.

I know you don't like the videos, but they are quite literally proof that counters many of the statements you made.
To say that they are not relevant to the discussion is simply false.
It's not unmanly to admit to having been in error.

I never said anything about the videos except they weren't relevant to the discussion. The only "statements" I've made are in the OP which I'm sure you haven't read yet.

You wouldn't have to be doing math if you would just read the OP. I am happy to read your musings on fleet doctrine, but they have nothing to do with the thread. And yes I have been in EVE long enough to know that you should pick your targets so warping away is indeed a tactic. Matter of fact, it is yet another advantage that smaller ships have over battleships. Unfortunately, it is usually more difficult for a battleship to get way. This mean it will have difficulty dictating the types of engagements they find themselves in.

stupid comparison really, as many have pointed out already.

Just to make it furtherly useless, i'ìll add that 20 (and less are needed for the job) arty BS (let's say TFI) shooting into resist hole are gonna volley T3s out of the field.

Did read OP.
Subsequently read 13 more pages of arguments and evidence to the contrary.
Watched goalposts shuffle around a bit.

As far as risk, as pointed out above a T3 is gonna run you a great deal more than a BS that's T2 fitted. Actually, a well fit HAC/HIC will too generally.

Hitting smaller ships... I routinely attempt to provoke BS pilots into aggressing my assault frigate. Sometimes they do. Someday I hope you also get to experience the joy of having precision cruise missiles that are backed with rigors and a target painter absolutely shred your speed/sig tanked AF. It was an eye opener for me, and I was rocking a full set of mid-grade halos at the time.

I have a strange feeling that the rapid heavy/target painter/rigor combo must feel somewhat similar to cruisers. Battlecruisers will likely have little time to savor the experience. And those are just the missile boats...
I wont go into the living nightmare that drone boats bring to the field.

What evidence?