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Do not train to fly battleships

Author
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#281 - 2015-06-12 08:55:33 UTC
Contrary to the OP's intention, this thread has gotten me pretty interested in T1 BSs (especially that RHML Phoon) since up till now all I ever trained was T3 Cruisers and down.
z'kroh
Doomheim
#282 - 2015-06-12 10:06:21 UTC
I want to fly Abaddon. And Sniper-Rokh. 253 km optimal Shocked
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#283 - 2015-06-12 10:08:47 UTC
z'kroh wrote:
And Sniper-Rokh. 253 km optimal Shocked


CCP is working to get you into a rokh on grid right now, cross check the fleet warp changes ;)
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#284 - 2015-06-12 10:21:41 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Battleships really shine in PVE. They can tank loads of damage, enough damage to break NPC tanks. PVE is nothing like PVP in EVE however. Battleships will not make taking on larger numbers of ships viable.

You should email that to CCP. Like: CCP L2P HTFU or GTFO for fitting PvP BS's on your lousy o7 show today. It was FAKE! The cake is a LIE! All those cruisers you decimated were just other CCP employees pretending to be random players. The LIES!

Oh wait, that's a video, doesn't count, riiight..

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#285 - 2015-06-12 10:49:52 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:


Battleship fits can be countered like any other ship's fits. If a T3 specifically fitted to counter the Battleship's, would the battleships still win?
By your own numbers the battleships lose because they fire slower. In addition, they have to target the T3 first. All of that would leave the battleships vulnerable. EVE battles are too complex for this kind of on paper play.


Alpha fleet: Removed t3 cruisers every volley, primary doctrine for several years, losses per fight were as low as zero while the enemy cruiser fleets suffered total losses.

Baltec Fleet: Also alpha'ed its way through everything not a battleship.

Domi Fleet: Currently the primary doctrine, rips its way through t3 fleets like a knife through butter.


Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#286 - 2015-06-12 12:07:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
z'kroh wrote:
I want to fly Abaddon. And Sniper-Rokh. 253 km optimal Shocked


Doesn't the Abaddon have serious cap issues? You're better off with the Hyperion with that massive tank.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#287 - 2015-06-12 12:59:21 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
z'kroh wrote:
I want to fly Abaddon. And Sniper-Rokh. 253 km optimal Shocked


Doesn't the Abaddon have serious cap issues? You're better off with the Hyperion with that massive tank.


Baddon is one of the best bricks money can buy.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#288 - 2015-06-12 17:59:05 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:


Battleship fits can be countered like any other ship's fits. If a T3 specifically fitted to counter the Battleship's, would the battleships still win?
By your own numbers the battleships lose because they fire slower. In addition, they have to target the T3 first. All of that would leave the battleships vulnerable. EVE battles are too complex for this kind of on paper play.


Alpha fleet: Removed t3 cruisers every volley, primary doctrine for several years, losses per fight were as low as zero while the enemy cruiser fleets suffered total losses.

Baltec Fleet: Also alpha'ed its way through everything not a battleship.

Domi Fleet: Currently the primary doctrine, rips its way through t3 fleets like a knife through butter.



I can't argue on the behalf of pilots who can not fit for the engagement.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#289 - 2015-06-13 00:22:56 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
z'kroh wrote:
I want to fly Abaddon. And Sniper-Rokh. 253 km optimal Shocked


Doesn't the Abaddon have serious cap issues? You're better off with the Hyperion with that massive tank.


Baddon is one of the best bricks money can buy.


Is it best fitted with reps or plates? What can it be used for? Solo? Bait? WHs? Ratting?
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#290 - 2015-06-13 01:56:01 UTC
More new players and even some older ones have accepted the fact that smaller ships have significant advantages over battleships.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#291 - 2015-06-13 03:42:05 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
More new players and even some older ones have accepted the fact that smaller ships have significant advantages over battleships.


thank you for sharing that deep and significant observation! I never would have guessed that there would be trade offs between different ship classes. I don't even know how I will use this profound new idea. My whole vision of eve has been flipped upside down. A rifter has a sig radius of 35m, where a raven has a sig of 410m. Not to mention the rifter is much faster! those are some pretty interesting advantages!

I will take these new ideas and think of new roles that smaller ships are better at than larger ships, and at the same time larger ships will be better at some things than smaller ships! Its almost as if it was by design Shocked

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#292 - 2015-06-13 03:45:46 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
More new players and even some older ones have accepted the fact that smaller ships have significant advantages over battleships.


thank you for sharing that deep and significant observation! I never would have guessed that there would be trade offs between different ship classes. I don't even know how I will use this profound new idea. My whole vision of eve has been flipped upside down. A rifter has a sig radius of 35m, where a raven has a sig of 410m. Not to mention the rifter is much faster! those are some pretty interesting advantages!

I will take these new ideas and think of new roles that smaller ships are better at than larger ships, and at the same time larger ships will be better at some things than smaller ships! Its almost as if it was by design Shocked

A lot of players don't know half of that. You should consider yourself fortunate.
NightmareX
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#293 - 2015-06-13 03:59:38 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Aza Ebanu wrote:
More new players and even some older ones have accepted the fact that smaller ships have significant advantages over battleships.

Ehm ok. Did you know that Dreads have 'significant advantages' over Cruisers, Battlecruisers and Battleships when it comes to shooting POS'es and stations?

The simple fact is that you can't say that smaller ships have advantages over biggers ships and then makes us believe that Battleships are worser than smaller ships at everything as there are 1 million ways you can use a Battleship that have way more advantages over smaller ships. It all depends on what you are going to use the ships for. If i really want to tear apart a bigger Cruiser fleet with a Vindicator for example, i will just unleash 2k DPS with 2x 90% webs on them where they just will die extremely fast.

Facts 101.

Yes, i have something i can say about this as i have been playing EVE since early 2004, so i have experience in flying all types of ships up to Marauders / Battleships.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#294 - 2015-06-13 04:11:16 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
z'kroh wrote:
I want to fly Abaddon. And Sniper-Rokh. 253 km optimal Shocked


Doesn't the Abaddon have serious cap issues? You're better off with the Hyperion with that massive tank.


Baddon is one of the best bricks money can buy.


Is it best fitted with reps or plates? What can it be used for? Solo? Bait? WHs? Ratting?


Plates. Babbons have a long history as being a heavy and hard to remove fleet often fitted with projectile weapons.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#295 - 2015-06-13 04:43:49 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
More new players and even some older ones have accepted the fact that smaller ships have significant advantages over battleships.

Ehm ok. Did you know that Dreads have 'significant advantages' over Cruisers, Battlecruisers and Battleships when it comes to shooting POS'es and stations?

The simple fact is that you can't say that smaller ships have advantages over biggers ships and then makes us believe that Battleships are worser than smaller ships at everything as there are 1 million ways you can use a Battleship that have way more advantages over smaller ships.

Facts 101.

Yes, i have something i can say about this as i have been playing EVE since early 2004, so i have experience in flying all types of ships up to Marauders / Battleships.

Yes and I'd wager most of you PVP successes don't include you piloting Battleships. Give everyone a moment to check out your killboard. See how many kills you earned in the mighty T1 battleship.
NightmareX
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#296 - 2015-06-13 04:54:01 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Yes and I'd wager most of you PVP successes don't include you piloting Battleships. Give everyone a moment to check out your killboard. See how many kills you earned in the mighty T1 battleship.

We aren't swinging our killboard e-peens here. We are talking about how all ships have advantages over each others in many things.

Yes, Cruisers and Battlecruisers have some advantages over Battleships. But if you think Battleships doesn't have advantages over smaller ships, i'm sorry to say it but you have not understood EVE Online as far as i'm concerned.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#297 - 2015-06-13 05:06:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Aza Ebanu
NightmareX wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Yes and I'd wager most of you PVP successes don't include you piloting Battleships. Give everyone a moment to check out your killboard. See how many kills you earned in the mighty T1 battleship.

We aren't swinging our killboard e-peens here. We are talking about how all ships have advantages over each others in many things.

Yes, Cruisers and Battlecruisers have some advantages over Battleships. But if you think Battleships doesn't have advantages over smaller ships, i'm sorry to say it but you have not understood EVE Online as far as i'm concerned.

Not any that truly factor into a large part of EVE Online gameplay, they don't. I understand EVE Online very well. Battleships are at the top of damage and tank, but the design of the game makes being in a larger hull susceptible to smaller ships. It is well documented in your own killboards that battleships stand little chance of surviving against smaller ships.

Q. Why would folks like you and Chainsaw Plankton come to my thread to tell me I am wrong?

A. These folks are heavily invested in battleships. They like to manufacture them and sell them so they get to buy their T2/T3 cruisers.

Why would people sing praises of battleships and they are their least flown ship?
Valkin Mordirc
#298 - 2015-06-13 05:18:36 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:

Not any that truly factor into a large part of EVE Online gameplay, they don't. I understand EVE Online very well. Battleships are at the top of damage and tank, but the design of the game makes being in a larger hull susceptible to smaller ships. It is well documented in your own killboards that battleships stand little chance of surviving against smaller ships.

Q. Why would folks like you and Chainsaw Plankton come to my thread to tell me I am wrong?

A. These folks are heavily invested in battleships. They like to manufacture them and sell them so they get to buy their T2/T3 cruisers.

Why would people sing praises of battleships and they are their least flown ship?



:Tinfoil:



#DeleteTheWeak
NightmareX
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#299 - 2015-06-13 05:21:22 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Aza Ebanu wrote:
I understand EVE Online very well.

Well, i hardly believes that as you are a 2011 character while i'm a 2004 character. I do understand how the ships works in every possible scenarios while you still have a loooooong long way left to get up to the experience level as i have about flying Battleships. I have Been flying Battleships since the middle of 2005. Heck, even all of my PVP videos where i fly my own ships from EVE is Battleships only to.

Aza Ebanu wrote:
Battleships are at the top of damage and tank, but the design of the game makes being in a larger hull susceptible to smaller ships. It is well documented in your own killboards that battleships stand little chance of surviving against smaller ships.

What about the 2x Vagabonds and 1x Hurricane that attacked me in my Vindicator in Perimeter where all died in 1 minute to me (yeah, you find those kills on my killboard aswell)?

Wasn't i supposed to die here as Cruisers and Battlecruisers are so much better than Battleships?

I had 80% armor left when they all was dead. The bottom line is, Battleships are totally fine if you have brain to use them correctly.

And this is not about what dies to what. It's all about what is the best ship for the job you are going to do. I can take my Vargur (that i currently have) and put it up against a 15 man Cruiser fleet. Who do you think will win here if they are just a normal t1 cruiser fleet roaming around that want to kill stuffs?

Aza Ebanu wrote:
Why would people sing praises of battleships and they are their least flown ship?

I fly Battleships 95% of the times i use a ship. I'm heavily specialized in using Battleships. And i have been highly specialized in Battleships since 2008, but have been using Battleships since middle of 2005.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#300 - 2015-06-13 05:58:39 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
I understand EVE Online very well.

Well, i hardly believes that as you are a 2011 character while i'm a 2004 character. I do understand how the ships works in every possible scenarios while you still have a loooooong long way left to get up to the experience level as i have about flying Battleships. I have Been flying Battleships since the middle of 2005. Heck, even all of my PVP videos where i fly my own ships from EVE is Battleships only to.

Aza Ebanu wrote:
Battleships are at the top of damage and tank, but the design of the game makes being in a larger hull susceptible to smaller ships. It is well documented in your own killboards that battleships stand little chance of surviving against smaller ships.

What about the 2x Vagabonds and 1x Hurricane that attacked me in my Vindicator in Perimeter where all died in 1 minute to me (yeah, you find those kills on my killboard aswell)?

Wasn't i supposed to die here as Cruisers and Battlecruisers are so much better than Battleships?

I had 80% armor left when they all was dead. The bottom line is, Battleships are totally fine if you have brain to use them correctly.

And this is not about what dies to what. It's all about what is the best ship for the job you are going to do. I can take my Vargur (that i currently have) and put it up against a 15 man Cruiser fleet. Who do you think will win here if they are just a normal t1 cruiser fleet roaming around that want to kill stuffs?

Aza Ebanu wrote:
Why would people sing praises of battleships and they are their least flown ship?

I fly Battleships 95% of the times i use a ship. I'm heavily specialized in using Battleships. And i have been highly specialized in Battleships since 2008, but have been using Battleships since middle of 2005.

That was then. This is now. And as I said, I am not counting faction battleships in the argument. Everyone goes to faction battleship, or droneboat/Gallente. Bottom line is: there are more practical ships than battleships.

UPON FURTHER REVIEW: Looks like you are a blob legend. No wonder you don't believe there are any under powered ships. All you do is blob everything to death. My goodness!