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Do not train to fly battleships

Author
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#301 - 2015-06-13 06:01:00 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Yes and I'd wager most of you PVP successes don't include you piloting Battleships. Give everyone a moment to check out your killboard. See how many kills you earned in the mighty T1 battleship.

We aren't swinging our killboard e-peens here. We are talking about how all ships have advantages over each others in many things.

Yes, Cruisers and Battlecruisers have some advantages over Battleships. But if you think Battleships doesn't have advantages over smaller ships, i'm sorry to say it but you have not understood EVE Online as far as i'm concerned.

Not any that truly factor into a large part of EVE Online gameplay, they don't. I understand EVE Online very well. Battleships are at the top of damage and tank, but the design of the game makes being in a larger hull susceptible to smaller ships. It is well documented in your own killboards that battleships stand little chance of surviving against smaller ships.

Q. Why would folks like you and Chainsaw Plankton come to my thread to tell me I am wrong?

A. These folks are heavily invested in battleships. They like to manufacture them and sell them so they get to buy their T2/T3 cruisers.

Why would people sing praises of battleships and they are their least flown ship?


Ehh...
Chainsaw has only 27 losses his whole career, 16 of them are BS hulls.
He has 400 kills sitting in Amarr BS and another 50 or so in other race BS.
450/16 makes him very qualified to state the facts of his experience.


NightmareX I have known of and seen since my start in EVE.
He plays for PvP and has probably tried flying every ship in the game that he thought was viable.
Nearly a thousand kills, with 600 of them from BS hulls.
Less than 40 losses.
He is also very qualified to state facts from his experience in EVE.

You have 21 fights total, and 2 confirmed kills.
2/21 says to me that you aren't qualified to make ANY PvP assumptions, or give any advice on any ship class.
For you to ignore or dismiss comments that guys like this give is either severe learning issues or trolling.

I feel like this is a 15 page troll, and has no relevant information to add to the forums.
A lock seems to be the best option at this point.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#302 - 2015-06-13 06:15:05 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Yes and I'd wager most of you PVP successes don't include you piloting Battleships. Give everyone a moment to check out your killboard. See how many kills you earned in the mighty T1 battleship.

We aren't swinging our killboard e-peens here. We are talking about how all ships have advantages over each others in many things.

Yes, Cruisers and Battlecruisers have some advantages over Battleships. But if you think Battleships doesn't have advantages over smaller ships, i'm sorry to say it but you have not understood EVE Online as far as i'm concerned.

Not any that truly factor into a large part of EVE Online gameplay, they don't. I understand EVE Online very well. Battleships are at the top of damage and tank, but the design of the game makes being in a larger hull susceptible to smaller ships. It is well documented in your own killboards that battleships stand little chance of surviving against smaller ships.

Q. Why would folks like you and Chainsaw Plankton come to my thread to tell me I am wrong?

A. These folks are heavily invested in battleships. They like to manufacture them and sell them so they get to buy their T2/T3 cruisers.

Why would people sing praises of battleships and they are their least flown ship?


Ehh...
Chainsaw has only 27 losses his whole career, 16 of them are BS hulls.
He has 400 kills sitting in Amarr BS and another 50 or so in other race BS.
450/16 makes him very qualified to state the facts of his experience.


NightmareX I have known of and seen since my start in EVE.
He plays for PvP and has probably tried flying every ship in the game that he thought was viable.
Nearly a thousand kills, with 600 of them from BS hulls.
Less than 40 losses.
He is also very qualified to state facts from his experience in EVE.

You have 21 fights total, and 2 confirmed kills.
2/21 says to me that you aren't qualified to make ANY PvP assumptions, or give any advice on any ship class.
For you to ignore or dismiss comments that guys like this give is either severe learning issues or trolling.

I feel like this is a 15 page troll, and has no relevant information to add to the forums.
A lock seems to be the best option at this point.

I appreciate your opinion and I appreciate your affinity for mathematics. I don't count blobs as successful PVP especially when you are in a battleeship. It is the easiest/safest form of EVE gameplay there is, and is worse than one of those no risk MMOs. Wasn't it you who said something about a "kitchen sink" fleet? No wonder, you support blob gameplay as well. Its probably why you got miffed when the battleships were outnumbered by T3s.

Battleships have some flaws when they must be flown in blobs.
Valkin Mordirc
#303 - 2015-06-13 06:43:15 UTC
The more you run your mouth Aza, the more people are going to see your lack of understanding.


So keep arguing your idiotic point. Everytime you post. The more people will see that you have no idea what you are talking about, the more you post, the more people will see that you don't understand a damned thing about how the mechanics work and all you are is a small whining **** beating his hands on the floor in a fit not because you CAN'T understand, because I fully believe you have the capability of being a decent player in EVE. It's because you REFUSE to listen to logic, from people who are actively telling you that your idea is wrong, by actively doing what you say is impossible day by day.


Basically your an idiot. And you are the only one to blame for being an idiot. Congratz lol.
#DeleteTheWeak
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#304 - 2015-06-13 06:47:20 UTC
'MMO' is the key label here.
EVE's major concept revolves around corporation structures that join alliance structures.
Fleets are the direct, and intended result from that. Well organized fleets with a bunch of good pilots is some of the best fun in all of eve.

A solo battleship has just as much chance of survival as a solo Tengu or a solo Merlin or a solo *anything else*.
If a solo pilots starts jumping gates in lowsec or null, he could have any number of possible engagements.
He could get blobbed though , and it wouldn't matter what ship he was in.
But he could run into 3 bc pilots and kill them all. A battleship would give him the best chance to do that.




Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#305 - 2015-06-13 07:12:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Aza Ebanu
RavenPaine wrote:
'MMO' is the key label here.
EVE's major concept revolves around corporation structures that join alliance structures.
Fleets are the direct, and intended result from that. Well organized fleets with a bunch of good pilots is some of the best fun in all of eve.

A solo battleship has just as much chance of survival as a solo Tengu or a solo Merlin or a solo *anything else*.
If a solo pilots starts jumping gates in lowsec or null, he could have any number of possible engagements.
He could get blobbed though , and it wouldn't matter what ship he was in.
But he could run into 3 bc pilots and kill them all. A battleship would give him the best chance to do that.





So... you are confessing that to win EVE, it is about having the bigger blob? If so, you are validating my point that players should find something else to train for. If it doesn't matter too much what you bring to the blob, why waste the time and isk to field a battleship when a BC will do just as well?

Just trying to help people realize the content eventuality is blobs. Thank you for being sharp enough to bring these facts out Cool
Valkin Mordirc
#306 - 2015-06-13 07:14:52 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
RavenPaine wrote:
'MMO' is the key label here.
EVE's major concept revolves around corporation structures that join alliance structures.
Fleets are the direct, and intended result from that. Well organized fleets with a bunch of good pilots is some of the best fun in all of eve.

A solo battleship has just as much chance of survival as a solo Tengu or a solo Merlin or a solo *anything else*.
If a solo pilots starts jumping gates in lowsec or null, he could have any number of possible engagements.
He could get blobbed though , and it wouldn't matter what ship he was in.
But he could run into 3 bc pilots and kill them all. A battleship would give him the best chance to do that.





So... you are confessing that to win EVE, it is about having the bigger blob? If so, you are validating my point that players should find something else to train for. If it doesn't matter too much what you bring to the blob, why waste the time and isk to field a battleship when a BC will do just as well?

Just trying to help people realize the content eventuality is blobs. Thank you for being sharp enough to bring these facts out Cool


lolwat?


The **** game have you been playing not to understand that Blobs are a thing?


Also.

I thought you said you didn't want Battleships to be ubersolo ships?


****. XD
#DeleteTheWeak
NightmareX
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#307 - 2015-06-13 07:24:09 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Not only did i use a Raven as my first real PVP Battleship in 2005, but i was actually part of the first Dreadnought kill in EVE's history aswell that was my first kill in a Battleship as you can see here: https://beta.eve-kill.net/kill/-4640929/

Hell yeah, sometimes i need to do some self-advertisement of myself being in a Battleship Blink.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#308 - 2015-06-13 07:35:23 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Not only did i use a Raven as my first real PVP Battleship in 2005, but i was actually part of the first Dreadnought kill in EVE's history aswell that was my first kill in a Battleship as you can see here: https://beta.eve-kill.net/kill/-4640929/

Hell yeah, some advertisement of myself in a Battleship is needed sometimes Blink.

All readers, take a really good look at the fit on that Moros. Then look at how many NightmareX was fleeted with.

Next read this fit: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Moros

You can make your on judgement of NightmareX's battleship skills.
Omar Alharazaad
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#309 - 2015-06-13 07:41:54 UTC
Mostly here for the popcorn and the slow roasting of the OP.
That and the kickass solo battleship pvp vids. Those things are gold.

I know it's unthinkable, but a simple 'okay, I was wrong' will likely stop the application of red hot pokers.
Have it your way.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Valkin Mordirc
#310 - 2015-06-13 07:44:04 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Mostly here for the popcorn and the slow roasting of the OP.
That and the kickass solo battleship pvp vids. Those things are gold.

I know it's unthinkable, but a simple 'okay, I was wrong' will likely stop the application of red hot pokers.
Have it your way.



He's resorted to ignoring me.

It's wonderful xD
#DeleteTheWeak
Omar Alharazaad
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#311 - 2015-06-13 07:50:32 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Mostly here for the popcorn and the slow roasting of the OP.
That and the kickass solo battleship pvp vids. Those things are gold.

I know it's unthinkable, but a simple 'okay, I was wrong' will likely stop the application of red hot pokers.
Have it your way.



He's resorted to ignoring me.

It's wonderful xD


Is okay. You're not all that he's ignoring.
Honestly, aside from CAM I didn't think that any Fox News correspondents played EVE.
Learn something new every day.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#312 - 2015-06-13 08:04:26 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
z'kroh wrote:
I want to fly Abaddon. And Sniper-Rokh. 253 km optimal Shocked


Doesn't the Abaddon have serious cap issues? You're better off with the Hyperion with that massive tank.


Baddon is one of the best bricks money can buy.


Is it best fitted with reps or plates? What can it be used for? Solo? Bait? WHs? Ratting?


throw some plates up on that! decent damage and projection, and no one wants to primary it. I'd say it's more of a small/mid sized gang ship. I'd say people would expect it to be bait, so it doesn't work out well as bait. Cap can be an issue, helps to have some logi that can give you some, or bring cap boosters.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

NightmareX
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#313 - 2015-06-13 08:27:48 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Aza Ebanu wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Not only did i use a Raven as my first real PVP Battleship in 2005, but i was actually part of the first Dreadnought kill in EVE's history aswell that was my first kill in a Battleship as you can see here: https://beta.eve-kill.net/kill/-4640929/

Hell yeah, some advertisement of myself in a Battleship is needed sometimes Blink.

All readers, take a really good look at the fit on that Moros. Then look at how many NightmareX was fleeted with.

Next read this fit: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Moros

You can make your on judgement of NightmareX's battleship skills.

You're not even old enough in EVE to realize that the fit you are seeing is not what the Moros had fitted. That killmail is so old that the killmail have been bugged on killboards through the years. It's missing 60% of the modules it had fitted on the Moros because of that.

Not only that, but did you see any less peoples on the first Titan killmail for example?

Nope, because there was a butt load of peoples on the first Titan kill.

We wasn't that many against that Moros (we was the whole 12 peoples where 9 out of that was Battleships) considering that we was fighting the biggest and most expensive ship at that time. So i think you need to wake up a little here.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#314 - 2015-06-13 08:37:29 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Battleships have some flaws when they must be flown in blobs.


funny thing to say when the main killer of battleships, at least in my experience, is blobs of smaller ships. Vs a few smaller ships they are usually pretty easy to kill or fend off. Heavy neuts do bad things to most small ships.

Aza Ebanu wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Not only did i use a Raven as my first real PVP Battleship in 2005, but i was actually part of the first Dreadnought kill in EVE's history aswell that was my first kill in a Battleship as you can see here: https://beta.eve-kill.net/kill/-4640929/

Hell yeah, some advertisement of myself in a Battleship is needed sometimes Blink.

All readers, take a really good look at the fit on that Moros. Then look at how many NightmareX was fleeted with.

Next read this fit: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Moros

You can make your on judgement of NightmareX's battleship skills.


do note that prior to late 2007 killmails only displayed the destroyed fittings, and from the items that do show up the fitting doesn't look to be out of the ordinary. And I'm not sure if rigs were in game in 2005. That and an out of siege moros used to do BS level damage with just its drones.

Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Mostly here for the popcorn and the slow roasting of the OP.
That and the kickass solo battleship pvp vids. Those things are gold.

I know it's unthinkable, but a simple 'okay, I was wrong' will likely stop the application of red hot pokers.
Have it your way.



He's resorted to ignoring me.

It's wonderful xD

make a few good points and these people tend to do that.

And yea I do own 3 BS BPOs. but I did mention that I have pretty much never used them. and IMO the biggest value I have in them is that CCP changed their prices Lol

my PVP is a bit dated. But it is almost all small gang or solo. battleships have always been strong. imo the biggest weakness is getting shut down by ewar and chewed up by a gang of smaller ships. one of the t3s biggest strength is the large buffer and high resists, that on there own don't really mean a lot, but in a blob where you are likely to have logi, become very strong.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#315 - 2015-06-13 09:28:34 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
z'kroh wrote:
I want to fly Abaddon. And Sniper-Rokh. 253 km optimal Shocked


Doesn't the Abaddon have serious cap issues? You're better off with the Hyperion with that massive tank.


Baddon is one of the best bricks money can buy.


Is it best fitted with reps or plates? What can it be used for? Solo? Bait? WHs? Ratting?


throw some plates up on that! decent damage and projection, and no one wants to primary it. I'd say it's more of a small/mid sized gang ship. I'd say people would expect it to be bait, so it doesn't work out well as bait. Cap can be an issue, helps to have some logi that can give you some, or bring cap boosters.


I have a alt that can fly the Baddon (training for the Paladin) so I was wondering if this ship had any use besides bait with that huge 192 ehp with dual 1600 steel plates + links.
NightmareX
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#316 - 2015-06-13 09:40:21 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
And to make it even more funnier. I even was a part of the fight where we killed the most Motherships (yes they was called it that way back then) at the same time back in 2009 aswell. We killed 5 Motherships at the same time that time.

And the good thing here is that i even made a video from it Big smile. Here is the video: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/NightmareX/EQI2-2MSKILLS.wmv

And here is the actual killmails: https://beta.eve-kill.net/character/1896934808/groupID/659/

Now, i didn't use a Battleship there, but a Vagabond. But the point here is that i actually have achieved something good through the years i have been doing PVP long time before you OP even started to play EVE. So i can back up myself with evidences on what i have been doing.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Blackfeathers
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#317 - 2015-06-13 10:14:31 UTC
At 500mil isk total, show me a solo or even 2-3man gang that can take a dual or tri-rep Hyperion.

Show me a single ship that will reliably alpha enemy logistics off the field. (One shot - not 2 or 3 - if there's one logi, there will be more - so multiple shots can be repped through.)
Need a Maelstrom or Tempest for this. Mega? I dunno - I haven't done much with those.

Show me a ship that can neut out an enemy triage carrier while being focused by an enemy fleet? Need a Geddon for this, and it contributes dps or ewar drones to the fight as well.

Then there are spider tank domis... find me three ships that will tank and dps as well as those for equitable cost and skillpoint investment.

You need a T1 Battleship to AoE jam a fleet and survive. Scorpion. The alternative is many cruisers or frigs.

You need Battleships to pipe-bomb a fleet. (Unless you are going to dump caps/supers to pipe-bomb - which is far more skill / cost intensive)

You need a battleship to hit at extreme (200-250km - Entosis sov, this may become a thing) range. Rokh etc.

Then, training Battleships gets you Pirate battleships, Marauders, Blops, Faction Battleships, and leads nicely into dreads. Training cruisers won't get you those - so you need to train BS.

Battleships wouldn't be the first thing I advise a newbro to train for - they are better off training for closer goals, and work their way towards the bigger things. I would definitely have battleships on the list of things to work to - ESPECIALLY if you are planning on Null / Wormhole life.

If you are in a position where moving isn't a big option (Entosis sov? No remote reps, so that buffer is gonna be important) Battleships will hold a field far easier than frigs, cruisers, dessies or BCs. And they'll do it cheaper.

If you have the guys - anything will work. If you have a limit on the number of guys you can bring, but need to fill many roles on the fly - Battleships have the utility to do this.

I'm not terribly experienced in pvp - but these are the things I would say Battleships are needed for.

Having said that, I would like to see Battleships warp a little faster - but rigs / macharial / lowslots / implants can fix this.


Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#318 - 2015-06-13 11:10:52 UTC
Blackfeathers wrote:
At 500mil isk total, show me a solo or even 2-3man gang that can take a dual or tri-rep Hyperion.


Ashimmu and 1-2 Svipuls. You're welcome. Also works against marauders solo farming c4s.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#319 - 2015-06-13 12:02:07 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:

That was then. This is now. And as I said, I am not counting faction battleships in the argument. Everyone goes to faction battleship, or droneboat/Gallente. Bottom line is: there are more practical ships than battleships.

UPON FURTHER REVIEW: Looks like you are a blob legend. No wonder you don't believe there are any under powered ships. All you do is blob everything to death. My goodness!


This is now.
Omar Alharazaad
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#320 - 2015-06-13 12:32:26 UTC
And as usual, baltec1 delivers the proof via video... which is apparently absolutely not admissible due to being, well... proof.
Also these vids made me want to pew with my ravens. Sadly, my alliance is all about the armor... so I'll just fit up a geddon instead.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.