EVE General Discussion

yeah, mission runners have to occasionally reject two missions in a row for being anti-empire

now try and tell me there's no consequences to mission running D:

the, uh, standings loss i didn't suffer for the npcs i didn't kill because i rejected the mission immediately after looking it up on eve survival

and gained an anti-pirate mission instead

that standings loss, right

Harsh? No, nothing ingame is too harsh if it comes for the right price. How long should a player work and get lucky until he haves the opportunity to cast a one-shot blow like destroying 1,000,000 SP from a guy he's got a killright on?

How long takes to earn 1,000,000 SP in real time hours? How many hours of gameplay would be a right price to cause such harm? What do you think that would be a sensible way to avoid that harm? Maybe do some PvE and get information on whether that guy you're about to gank is potentially hazardous to mess with? Or just go happily ganking around until one day you lose 1,000,000 SP and it hurts?

It's all a matter of balance. In EVE, it's normal to lose the frutis of weeks and even months of gameplay in a single freighter gank. Nobody calls that "harsh", only "HTFU" and "learn to avoid it".

Well, HTFU, you ganked the wrong guy. Learn to avoid that -by playing that guy's way, as much as he should avoid being ganked by playing your way. Ying and Yang.

Oh, the irony.

Losing a ship because unlucky or careless = good
Losing SP because unlucky or careless = bad.

Negating a player to fly his ship (destroyed ships don't fly) = good
Potentially negating a player to fly his ship for a while = bad

Being unable to fly your ship because someone messed with you = good
Being unable to fly your ship because you messed with someone = bad

See, it's not about who or when or what. It's about consequences. Messing up with players who don't share your way of playing should expose you to be messed with by players who don't share your way of playing.

The exact mechanics could be worked out. Even "peacedecs" would work!

As the core of the concept it's about forcing other players to play in a way they don't want... unconsensually. There's nothing more EVE than that.

PvPr: "But, but, you can destroy my ship too! Even if I don't give a f*** of it...!"
PvEr: "Huh, no, I'd rather hit you where it hurts you, for a change. So say good bye to Small Hybrid Weapons IV for the next few days (or anything equally annoying)"

The difference being that destroyed ships can be replaced, instantly.

Also Rule #1: Don't fly anything you're not comfortable with losing.

I don't disagree with the principle I disagree with what you consider to be balanced.

So do something instead of asking CCP to do it for you, that's kind of the point of playing a sandbox game.

Different mindsets, one sees ships as disposable tools and uses them as such; the other sees them as valuable objects, but for the most part fails to take steps to protect them.

You can't justify penalising people for treating their ships as the tools they are.

You mean Yin of course.

Not an issue with SOE missions.

Instantly? LOL, I've bought exactly ONE freighter in 6 years of playing. Had to mine for SIX WEEKS to save that money, even as I wasn't plexing my account, and ice price was way better than it is now... that's how "instantly" can be replaced a freighter.



OK, I will use that agent I've got at 10.0 quality in order to mess with any potential ganker... oh wait. Looks like I can't do that without CCP.



If losing a ship is unconsequential to them, then please oh please tell me: what risk there is in their actions? None? Because if there's no risk in their playstyle, that must be fixed ASAP. You're apologizing the existence of riskless rewards in EVE, shame on you!

If you aren't comfortable with losing it, or can't afford to; you shouldn't fly it.

You don't need to use an agent to mess with a ganker, fitting a tank and being at the keyboard does a fairly good job of messing with them attempting to mess with you.

The risk is still there.

The fact that they've accepted the risk as part of their game doesn't mean that the risk is gone, as evidenced by the amount of people that aren't ganking because they can't accept the risk you claim doesn't exist.

Emotions are not 'psychological issues.' Avarice, lust, wrath, vanity, hubris, poor hygiene and silly hair may well be sins, but experiencing them doesn't make someone a psycho or sociopath. A lack of emotion is actually an indicator of a personality disorder. When making those sorts of attack - which is directed at the person, not the player - it's you who is crossing the line (both of you), and transferring your issues onto us.

Interaction in an online war game with a dystopian theme, where assets which have a measurable value vs real life currency, which requires significant time, effort and energy, is an emotional investment. When people lose - whether a ship, pod, assets, space, friends - it's entirely human (and irrational) to register an emotional response. The point about the learning curve is that this response diminishes over time, in the same way people getting the shakes does when they PvP, because we're smart monkeys and we learn from our mistakes. You have to accept they are your own mistakes in the first place, and it's noticeable that some either can't, or won't, and it's not our problem. Transferring the blame to the community or CCP is a lot easier than admitting you ****** up. Muttering about real wars, atrocities and human nature just indicates the kind of victim mentality that can never be cured.

People who rage over a loss a few weeks in are entitled to. It's bizarre, and pretty rare in modern MMOs to experience significant perma death mechanics. There's no reason to slap newbies about for being annoyed, it shows they are engaged enough to rant. Those who have been whining for years and are still raging about broken mechanics and griefers are beyond saving, and nobody cares. As long as CCP ignore their gibbering, we should too.

tl;dr There's nothing wrong with feeling an emotion when your space chariot explodes, but direct it into something useful. Like not losing the next one.