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Dev blog: Multisell all the things with Phoebe

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Shamus en Divalone
The Clandestine Forge
#101 - 2014-10-22 07:05:13 UTC
Excellent work!!!

*clap clap clap*

I agree with an X on everything unless the mouseover brings it up real fast! or The list can be organised by Meta level maybe?
Frunje Elbris
Bovine Ltd.
#102 - 2014-10-22 07:13:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Frunje Elbris
Hello,
first I have to confess I don't have a way to access SISI [small harddrive :)] so my feedback is based on youtube video of the feature, but nevertheless:

Would it be possible to add more icons representing ratio of selected price and regional average? Like double arrow for more than 10 % difference and triple for more than 100 % difference (90 % and 10 % in case of lower price)? For example you may want to sell under average (due to bad location, or urgency), and this would provide way how to fast check you didn't missed one zero :)

Thanks!
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#103 - 2014-10-22 08:29:33 UTC
Frunje Elbris wrote:
Hello,
first I have to confess I don't have a way to access SISI [small harddrive :)] so my feedback is based on youtube video of the feature, but nevertheless:

Would it be possible to add more icons representing ratio of selected price and regional average? Like double arrow for more than 10 % difference and triple for more than 100 % difference (90 % and 10 % in case of lower price)? For example you may want to sell under average (due to bad location, or urgency), and this would provide way how to fast check you didn't missed one zero :)

Thanks!


good idea. I like to do something about displaying how high the % is Big smile

where is this video people keep talking about??ShockedStraight

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#104 - 2014-10-22 08:43:45 UTC
For everyone having problems on Singularity, it should be better when we get a new build.

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
Draahk Chimera
Supervillains
#105 - 2014-10-22 08:54:02 UTC
Reposting two suggestions I have seen in this thread.

1. Could we please get the values of regional avarage directly on the window for each item? Like someone said 2% below is ok 60% below is not.

2. Could we please get the X to remove an item from the multisell that is permanent rather then having to hover for it?

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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#106 - 2014-10-22 09:09:43 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:

where is this video people keep talking about??ShockedStraight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4qE9U5rZRY
Could be that one? Not sure.
Genistein Yatolila
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#107 - 2014-10-22 09:35:35 UTC
Awesome feature.
Been waiting for this forever.
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#108 - 2014-10-22 09:39:06 UTC
Draahk Chimera wrote:
Reposting two suggestions I have seen in this thread.

1. Could we please get the values of regional avarage directly on the window for each item? Like someone said 2% below is ok 60% below is not.

2. Could we please get the X to remove an item from the multisell that is permanent rather then having to hover for it?


1. I want to look into this, yes

2. you would have to hover over the item anyway to click the X and it's much cleaner to only show it on hover Smile

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#109 - 2014-10-22 09:39:38 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:

where is this video people keep talking about??ShockedStraight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4qE9U5rZRY
Could be that one? Not sure.


thanks! that's a very old build though Big smile

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
Angie Chatter
#110 - 2014-10-22 09:57:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Angie Chatter
@CCP Punkturis

From this video i still don't understand how this solves one of the main problems, while selling items and why it can be a extremely annoying click and wait nightmare.

Scenario:
150x item A
50x item B
30x Item C
70x Item D

Now i want to immediately sell all to buy orders, while achieving the maximal profit.

Current Steps:
1) right click item stack A-D
2) select sell from the menu
3) check price
4) hit enter/sell

We now need to repeat this for all stacks and depending on the available buy order volume, this can mean around 10-600 individual clicks. On top, if we click too fast you get a "Hold on, you have to wait xy seconds before you can continue" message every 10-30 seconds, with a wait time of 10-30 seconds per message. This means selling those stacks can end up taking 1-10 minutes.

This is a click-fest nightmare.

What i would expect from the new system:
1) add all stacks to this new sell window
2) enter a "minimal/threshold" sell price per item
3) hit enter/sell all

The system should now start filling the individual buy orders, until the minimum price is reached, at which point it setups sell orders or does nothing. This means if a buy order is over your minimal entered price, you should get the buy order price, not your minimal entered threshold price.

If the new system still simply uses the entered price as a "sell price" for all items and does not respect the individual higher priced buy orders, we still end up with the old click/wait-fest.

So is the new system working in the way i would expect a "usefully" new multi-sell system or is it just the old way of selling in a new fancy interface?
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#111 - 2014-10-22 10:27:04 UTC
Angie Chatter wrote:
@CCP Punkturis

From this video i still don't understand how this solves one of the main problems, while selling items and why it can be a extremely annoying click and wait nightmare.

Scenario:
150x item A
50x item B
30x Item C
70x Item D

Now i want to immediately sell all to buy orders, while achieving the maximal profit.

Current Steps:
1) right click item stack A-D
2) select sell from the menu
3) check price
4) hit enter/sell

We now need to repeat this for all stacks and depending on the available buy order volume, this can mean around 10-600 individual clicks. On top, if we click too fast you get a "Hold on, you have to wait xy seconds before you can continue" message every 10-30 seconds, with a wait time of 10-30 seconds per message. This means selling those stacks can end up taking 1-10 minutes.

This is a click-fest nightmare.

What i would expect from the new system:
1) add all stacks to this new sell window
2) enter a "minimal/threshold" sell price per item
3) hit enter/sell all

The system should now start filling the individual buy orders, until the minimum price is reached, at which point it setups sell orders or does nothing. This means if a buy order is over your minimal entered price, you should get the buy order price, not your minimal entered threshold price.

If the new system still simply uses the entered price as a "sell price" for all items and does not respect the individual higher priced buy orders, we still end up with the old click/wait-fest.

So is the new system working in the way i would expect a "usefully" new multi-sell system or is it just the old way of selling in a new fancy interface?


there is not a new functionality in selling items. it's a new window to make it easier to sell more than one item at once.

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
Angie Chatter
#112 - 2014-10-22 10:48:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Angie Chatter
CCP Punkturis wrote:

there is not a new functionality in selling items. it's a new window to make it easier to sell more than one item at once.


Actually you only made it easier to sell to the highest single buy order per item stack. If you only have a single stack and 100 individual listed buy orders, it still takes 500 clicks to sell your stack, for maximum profit, since you have to sell to each buy order price individually.

So basically a fancy new interface, without addressing any "real" problems?

You do realize that your new system now allows to make massive sell price errors on a scale not possible before, since you could only do such errors per item/stack before.

Just to give some ideas what happens if you have to manually sell to each buy order price. So you are at like 100+ clicks/enter, but you will eventually reach the "lowball" buy orders, but since muscle memory did already kick in you are likely to hit enter once in a while, which results in a unwanted sell only because the sell mechanic is tedious and "brain-dead".

I mean my example is what i end up doing every time i decide to sell to buy orders and i always sit there shaking my head. So the only "improvement" of the new system is that i can sell multiple stacks at once to the highest buy order per stack at once?

Is this annoying "Hold on..." wait message at least gone now or do you still handicap me for selling "too fast" manually?

bye


PS: So basically MoxNix was correct and CCP just "improved" the brain-dead order filling logic to a massive scale....
Internet Knight
Brothers of Tyr
Goonswarm Federation
#113 - 2014-10-22 13:46:27 UTC
Quote:
And if you accidentally dropped your favorite ship in the window, you don't have to worry. Just hover over the item you want to remove and you will see an X button you can click on to remove the item.


This will NOT be user-friendly. The X should always be visible. I would prefer it to be to the left of the object's icon.

There are plenty of people, myself included, who don't want to have to hunt for hidden features. Take Windows 8 for example. Hunting for the ability to shutdown/reboot and the start menu? Bad idea.

At best, people will realize that they should be able to close the window and start anew, losing all the progress they'd made so far.
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#114 - 2014-10-22 14:54:54 UTC
Internet Knight wrote:
Quote:
And if you accidentally dropped your favorite ship in the window, you don't have to worry. Just hover over the item you want to remove and you will see an X button you can click on to remove the item.


This will NOT be user-friendly. The X should always be visible. I would prefer it to be to the left of the object's icon.

There are plenty of people, myself included, who don't want to have to hunt for hidden features. Take Windows 8 for example. Hunting for the ability to shutdown/reboot and the start menu? Bad idea.

At best, people will realize that they should be able to close the window and start anew, losing all the progress they'd made so far.


Try it out on Singularity, I'm sure it's not as hidden as you think Smile

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
ArmyOfMe
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#115 - 2014-10-22 15:28:47 UTC  |  Edited by: ArmyOfMe
Any chance the restriction on contracting ships with boosters in them can be lifted as well? I know a lot of ppl with stuff stuck in stations they can no longer access that contains ships they cant even contract due to having boosters in their cargo.

Seeing as you can sell boosters in all stations, i see no reason why boosters on contract would be such a horrible crime, specially in 0,0 wich isnt even concord controlled space.


Other then that, awesome changes wich will make life a lot easier for those with lots of loot and such to sell.
Buyorders for fittings you have stored is something i hope is high on your list as well, as i hate spending all that time finding the mods i need Big smile

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.
Jackie Cane
Chaos Gate
#116 - 2014-10-22 15:56:04 UTC
Very Nice !!! This feature has been on many people's wish list for so long.
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#117 - 2014-10-22 20:08:16 UTC
I love the idea behind this but stand firm in that the "Regional Average" price is far from accurate. And in many cases needs further adjustment by the player to be actually meaningful which then negates the advantage of a multi-sell window. This is of course because they are using the same value as they give us for "Estimated Value".

Would be an interesting study to go through the market and list how much disparity there is between the "Suggested Price" and the actual lowest sell and highest buy, as well as they avg price for that day or the day before (the little yellow dot). I've seen throughout the game numerous items that were infact completely worthless that had such ridiculous estimated values to make them seem worthwhile, only because some tard had a stupid high sell order buried at the bottom of the market screen in the back end of the region.

So unless they change the accuracy of the value they are providing then I can picture a lot of these new multi-sell orders ending up halfway down the market screen because the information is so horribly incorrect, or in some cases they posted sell prices might actually be lower than a current buy order. And until this Regional Average/Estimated Price is changed to be what it should be, I will continue to right-click and check market orders on everything, negating what is otherwise a good step in the right direction.

Are there any plans to make this a more usable value?
Detroit Diesel
Doomheim
#118 - 2014-10-22 22:00:05 UTC
I just ran about ten multisell transactions on Singularity, clearing my hanger of the usual loot that piles up: stacks of ammo, armor plates, caps, etc.

The functionality was very smooth. The orders processed as one would expect, with those that I adjusted above the value of any local buy orders becoming sell orders with my chosen duration.

I also found the linkage between the items in the list and the market data very convenient and helpful in making pricing decisions.

Two suggestions:

1. The list lacks definition with the black background and no row markers. I found myself squinting at the list a lot.
2. The popup that shows the items processed lists them all as "Sold," even if a particular item became a sell order. Showing some distinction between what liquidated and what went into the offers queue would be good here.

This is a great feature and, hopefully, will help me keep the number of stacks in my hanger under a bajillion.

Thanks for this!
MeagerMiner
#119 - 2014-10-22 22:15:53 UTC
I think this is a really sweet thang ya'll have given us....!!

Overall I like what you gave us and its very much appreciated !!

I dont care for the Up / Down arrows to raise or lower prices.. kinda tiny script size for that too.
Hard to click on teeny arrow.


It takes a long time to manipulate price as opposed to just clickin on box and doin it like weve been doin without.. But its a Cool Feature, dont get me wrong..

its a big UI, cant it be larger scripts n such maybe..

Me and Team GFY thank you and your Team !
Dwissi
Miners Delight Reborn
#120 - 2014-10-22 22:37:09 UTC
Dangeresque Too wrote:
I love the idea behind this but stand firm in that the "Regional Average" price is far from accurate. And in many cases needs further adjustment by the player to be actually meaningful which then negates the advantage of a multi-sell window. This is of course because they are using the same value as they give us for "Estimated Value".

Would be an interesting study to go through the market and list how much disparity there is between the "Suggested Price" and the actual lowest sell and highest buy, as well as they avg price for that day or the day before (the little yellow dot). I've seen throughout the game numerous items that were infact completely worthless that had such ridiculous estimated values to make them seem worthwhile, only because some tard had a stupid high sell order buried at the bottom of the market screen in the back end of the region.

So unless they change the accuracy of the value they are providing then I can picture a lot of these new multi-sell orders ending up halfway down the market screen because the information is so horribly incorrect, or in some cases they posted sell prices might actually be lower than a current buy order. And until this Regional Average/Estimated Price is changed to be what it should be, I will continue to right-click and check market orders on everything, negating what is otherwise a good step in the right direction.

Are there any plans to make this a more usable value?


Those average prices are not much different from what you do when you start checking the orders - just that the average price is calculated from actual executed orders. Its a common price model used all over Eve - in industry for the estimated price of input materials , killmails etc

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Before someone complains again: grr everyone

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