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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#6341 - 2014-10-04 07:41:14 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:

TO be fair there are minerals and such that are literally borderline non existant in null sec, they use highsec to move those minerals up to compensate they sell the ones they have in excess, simple one hand washing the other mechanics. But honestly once they fix that issue Null could become a serious of Iron lines with completely self sufficent mining operations and construction


When one area of space can become un-reliant on another that will be a sad day


yes but it should be regional, not security status based, literally all the scare minerals are back in empire, if they fixed the rates it spawned by region null could become interdependent and an alliance holding space in 3 regions ( not all of all 3 regions ) could theoretically become self sufficent in null sec with no need to rely on empire anymore for anything but an easy market

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Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#6342 - 2014-10-04 07:42:10 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Here is what has been brought up already.
13. Your mom.
[Insert your mom is fat joke here]
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6343 - 2014-10-04 07:42:47 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:

TO be fair there are minerals and such that are literally borderline non existant in null sec, they use highsec to move those minerals up to compensate they sell the ones they have in excess, simple one hand washing the other mechanics. But honestly once they fix that issue Null could become a serious of Iron lines with completely self sufficent mining operations and construction


When one area of space can become un-reliant on another that will be a sad day



Given this trade inter-dependence then does it make sense to put a severe limit on that trade?
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#6344 - 2014-10-04 07:43:26 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Here is what has been brought up already.
13. Your mom.
[Insert your mom is fat joke here]


[Insert witless "trying not to show your crying" comeback here]

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Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#6345 - 2014-10-04 07:44:34 UTC
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
It is something CCP should consider though...we play this game to have fun. Here, you do the math...you are your alliances Logistics Guy™. You have to move 10,000,000 m3 out to your space. You have a JF. You have two JF alts, you can swap the JF at a mid point and you have two cyno alts and each jump is 4 LY. How much extra time will fatigue impose on you assuming you wait for fatigue to go down to 0 after each jump?

Give me a ball park number on how many extra hours it would take to get that job done...then tell me what you think the fun factor would be?

I think the 'fun' factor is not "how do imove 10mil/m3" but rather "where can we find that 10mil/m3 already here"
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6346 - 2014-10-04 07:47:37 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
It is something CCP should consider though...we play this game to have fun. Here, you do the math...you are your alliances Logistics Guy™. You have to move 10,000,000 m3 out to your space. You have a JF. You have two JF alts, you can swap the JF at a mid point and you have two cyno alts and each jump is 4 LY. How much extra time will fatigue impose on you assuming you wait for fatigue to go down to 0 after each jump?

Give me a ball park number on how many extra hours it would take to get that job done...then tell me what you think the fun factor would be?

I think the 'fun' factor is not "how do imove 10mil/m3" but rather "where can we find that 10mil/m3 already here"


Dude you live in Null, you know you can't find every thing you need in null....as such it has to be imported. Does Fountain have all the different R64s and R32s? If you are going to build your own T2 items...where are you going to get the moon goo you don't produce?
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#6347 - 2014-10-04 07:49:19 UTC
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
It is something CCP should consider though...we play this game to have fun. Here, you do the math...you are your alliances Logistics Guy™. You have to move 10,000,000 m3 out to your space. You have a JF. You have two JF alts, you can swap the JF at a mid point and you have two cyno alts and each jump is 4 LY. How much extra time will fatigue impose on you assuming you wait for fatigue to go down to 0 after each jump?

Give me a ball park number on how many extra hours it would take to get that job done...then tell me what you think the fun factor would be?

I think the 'fun' factor is not "how do imove 10mil/m3" but rather "where can we find that 10mil/m3 already here"


Dude you live in Null, you know you can't find every thing you need in null....as such it has to be imported. Does Fountain have all the different R64s and R32s? If you are going to build your own T2 items...where are you going to get the moon goo you don't produce?


Maybe CCP will introduce alchemy again
JK JK thats a worse idea than saying " you cant fit guns to your ships this week because someone ate my bagel in the community frisge last week" "

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X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#6348 - 2014-10-04 07:55:07 UTC
Galmalmin wrote:
No, the stuff is just going to rot in station, ya can't have it.
Can I reprocess your stuff?
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#6349 - 2014-10-04 07:57:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
It is something CCP should consider though...we play this game to have fun. Here, you do the math...you are your alliances Logistics Guy™. You have to move 10,000,000 m3 out to your space. You have a JF. You have two JF alts, you can swap the JF at a mid point and you have two cyno alts and each jump is 4 LY. How much extra time will fatigue impose on you assuming you wait for fatigue to go down to 0 after each jump?

Give me a ball park number on how many extra hours it would take to get that job done...then tell me what you think the fun factor would be?

I think the 'fun' factor is not "how do imove 10mil/m3" but rather "where can we find that 10mil/m3 already here"


Dude you live in Null, you know you can't find every thing you need in null....as such it has to be imported. Does Fountain have all the different R64s and R32s? If you are going to build your own T2 items...where are you going to get the moon goo you don't produce?

yes, I know, but that surely reduces the 10mil down quite a bit. The way it is now is pretty much buy in jita (either in material form or final product) and ship to null. Now it will be more reasonable to find it locally and import what is needed. Imports and exports won't go away for sure, but they will be drastically reduced based on imperative need for it. Its going to take 5 hours and 4 alts to move a few BS worth of materials to null? we could just mine it in a simliar amount of time with less fuel cost. JF and transports will move into a role of moving only the essentials. High end and scarcer goods required for advanced industry. Which means higher collaterals and payments due to extra time. Avoiding unnecessary moves and wasted space. It'll still suck tryin to move the items but it offers more forethought and gameplay for others as well.

E: also to take into consideration is what to build. Maybe the group will consider switching into locally friendly doctrines in order to encourage volume.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#6350 - 2014-10-04 07:59:59 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
It is something CCP should consider though...we play this game to have fun. Here, you do the math...you are your alliances Logistics Guy™. You have to move 10,000,000 m3 out to your space. You have a JF. You have two JF alts, you can swap the JF at a mid point and you have two cyno alts and each jump is 4 LY. How much extra time will fatigue impose on you assuming you wait for fatigue to go down to 0 after each jump?

Give me a ball park number on how many extra hours it would take to get that job done...then tell me what you think the fun factor would be?

I think the 'fun' factor is not "how do imove 10mil/m3" but rather "where can we find that 10mil/m3 already here"


Dude you live in Null, you know you can't find every thing you need in null....as such it has to be imported. Does Fountain have all the different R64s and R32s? If you are going to build your own T2 items...where are you going to get the moon goo you don't produce?

yes, I know, but that surely reduces the 10mil down quite a bit. The way it is now is pretty much buy in jita (either in material form or final product) and ship to null. Now it will be more reasonable to find it locally and import what is needed. Imports and exports won't go away for sure, but they will be drastically reduced based on imperative need for it. Its going to take 5 hours and 4 alts to move a few BS worth of materials to null? we could just mine it in a simliar amount of time with less fuel cost. JF and transports will move into a role of moving only the essentials. High end and scarcer goods required for advanced industry. Which means higher collaterals and payments due to extra time. Avoiding unnecessary moves and wasted space. It'll still suck tryin to move the items but it offers more forethought and gameplay for others as well.


Plus more null mining ops to hotdrop >:D
Well with added 4 hour cooldowns for flavor
Variety is a spice of death
errr life

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P0RT4R0
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6351 - 2014-10-04 08:04:40 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)


Translation: I got tired of reading this stuff changes will be coming through anyways 'cause I don't care, bye
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd
Nulli Secunda
#6352 - 2014-10-04 08:05:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Myriad Blaze
Disiri Skai wrote:
So while everyone else bitches and moans about the changes in the capital area...has ccp though about the fact that this will officially kill Battleship fleets.

They warp slow, align slow and don't even pack the punch the much faster T3s. They are already a rare sight in the battlefield. With the need to travel through gates cruisers will become even more prevalent than now. Plus with the JF nerfs space will be at a premium...and you can bring 10 cruisers for every battleship.



I am all for capital changes but please for the love of god don't kill battleships, give them something to make the effort of bringing them somewhere worth it.

I fully trust CCP to find a "fix" for this. Like removing the ability to jump to zero for capitals. Or maybe they will add a "gate fatigue" timer. Or they will "rebalance" capitals and reduce EHP, DPS, capacity and warp speed to 20-25% of their current values to make battleships desirable in comparison. No wait, I have it... in the future capitals need "fuel" to use jump gates... 1 PLEX per jump seems reasonable (to CCP). That way CCP will try to compensate for the losses from subscriptions that were canceled because of these changes.

EDIT: In case someone missed it, please accept this as a poor substitute for a good sarcasm emote: Roll
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#6353 - 2014-10-04 08:07:08 UTC
P0RT4R0 wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)


Translation: I got tired of reading this stuff changes will be coming through anyways 'cause I don't care, bye

Translation, Ive basically read a small novel in 2 days and responded with another small novel in the same time. I'm going to get drunk on Brennivín this weekend and hopefully cure this headache with an even bigger one.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#6354 - 2014-10-04 08:08:48 UTC
P0RT4R0 wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)


Translation: I got tired of reading this stuff changes will be coming through anyways 'cause I don't care, bye


I too have forum alts i use to smacktalk CCP Dev so they dont target my gameplay or my style next
ohwai....

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Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#6355 - 2014-10-04 08:09:54 UTC
Myriad Blaze wrote:
Disiri Skai wrote:
So while everyone else bitches and moans about the changes in the capital area...has ccp though about the fact that this will officially kill Battleship fleets.

They warp slow, align slow and don't even pack the punch the much faster T3s. They are already a rare sight in the battlefield. With the need to travel through gates cruisers will become even more prevalent than now. Plus with the JF nerfs space will be at a premium...and you can bring 10 cruisers for every battleship.



I am all for capital changes but please for the love of god don't kill battleships, give them something to make the effort of bringing them somewhere worth it.

I fully trust CCP to find a "fix" for this. Like removing the ability to jump to zero for capitals. Or maybe they will add a "gate fatigue" timer. Or they will "rebalance" capitals and reduce EHP, DPS, capacity and warp speed to 20-25% of their current values to make battleships desirable in comparison. No wait, I have it... in the future capitals need "fuel" to use jump gates... 1 PLEX per jump seems reasonable (to CCP). That way CCP will try to compensate for the losses from subscriptions that were canceled because of these changes.


That almost beats Dryson's post about Mini hawking radiation blackhole generator ships as the most absurd thing i have read in the last 24 hours

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Sbrodor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6356 - 2014-10-04 08:10:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Sbrodor
we discussed a lot in our community and we have a lot of hype and fun with these changes.

a very welcome change. good point CCP.

with these changes we will have a lot more action . contenent, thing to do and fight to play.

and maybe we will se the "carrier convoy" of capitals escorted by sub capital fleet.
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6357 - 2014-10-04 08:10:23 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
It is something CCP should consider though...we play this game to have fun. Here, you do the math...you are your alliances Logistics Guy™. You have to move 10,000,000 m3 out to your space. You have a JF. You have two JF alts, you can swap the JF at a mid point and you have two cyno alts and each jump is 4 LY. How much extra time will fatigue impose on you assuming you wait for fatigue to go down to 0 after each jump?

Give me a ball park number on how many extra hours it would take to get that job done...then tell me what you think the fun factor would be?

I think the 'fun' factor is not "how do imove 10mil/m3" but rather "where can we find that 10mil/m3 already here"


Dude you live in Null, you know you can't find every thing you need in null....as such it has to be imported. Does Fountain have all the different R64s and R32s? If you are going to build your own T2 items...where are you going to get the moon goo you don't produce?

yes, I know, but that surely reduces the 10mil down quite a bit. The way it is now is pretty much buy in jita (either in material form or final product) and ship to null. Now it will be more reasonable to find it locally and import what is needed. Imports and exports won't go away for sure, but they will be drastically reduced based on imperative need for it. Its going to take 5 hours and 4 alts to move a few BS worth of materials to null? we could just mine it in a simliar amount of time with less fuel cost. JF and transports will move into a role of moving only the essentials. High end and scarcer goods required for advanced industry. Which means higher collaterals and payments due to extra time. Avoiding unnecessary moves and wasted space. It'll still suck tryin to move the items but it offers more forethought and gameplay for others as well.

E: also to take into consideration is what to build. Maybe the group will consider switching into locally friendly doctrines in order to encourage volume.


Serious question have you done logistics work for your alliance? I have not myself, but I have talked to guys who have, and I do other work for our corp...I know that there is lots of stuff we just can't source locally no matter how hard we try. Even if you could cut the load in half...do the math how long to move 5,000,000 m3?
Dea Doughmaker
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6358 - 2014-10-04 08:13:56 UTC
You want supers to have escort... ok! I tell you how to do it without ruining the game. But read in full and not the first two lines. Titan can be only used in the FC slot. Super Carrier can be used only in wing slot. Carrier can be used only in a squad leader slot. Carrier deals full damage only if he has full squad filled with people. If there is 4 people out of 10 in a squad it would deal only 40% damage. This then scales to the super carrier - each full squad gives the super carrier 25% damage. If you have 3 full squads and 1 with 4 people - you will deal 25%x3+10%=85% damage. Then it scales same way to the titan so if you have a titan with only 1 full wing of people it will deal only 25% damage. What does it do - interesting fights - it's better to kill subcaps first to kill caps later. 2. No more titan blobs. On a sunny day goons could probably be able to drop 5-6 titans max at the same time.

Other changes could include:
Damage nerf would apply only to players not to rats so people can still rat in their supers in the belts if they want (at the same time if they are caught they would be easier to kill).

There is a, let's say, 15 mins timer for the diminishing damage effect described above to kick once the fleet members start dying and % goes down. This is so that the caps have time to defend themselves for a little while. 15 mins is a balance between giving the caps a slight chance of escape and not allowing people to exploit the system.

I would still nerf super caps so they can kill subcaps better. Maybe not as well as when these ships were introduced but better than it is now - for example doomsday could hit batttleships a bit more than it does now. Bombers could kill stuff down to cruiser hull stuff - remember there will be not so many of supercaps on the battle field anymore.

To make things even more interesting and varied we could build squad (and that is for all fleets, not only for super fleets) around roles and ship sizes so that each squad could have 2 slots for ships with max size of a frigate, 3 slots with max size of a cruiser, 4 slots with max size of a battleship, 1 with max size of a carrier. This would make it harder to build blobs of 250 megathrons and would force people to vary fleets and use logi, ewar etc. At the same time you could still take a small fun fleets out.
Bl1SkR1N
13th HOUR
#6359 - 2014-10-04 08:18:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Bl1SkR1N
All these young spoiled brats used to have carriers everywhere and plnety of JF pilots around...eve existed before the jump drives and everything was just fine :P

Just consider nerfing carriers repping power outside of triage as well please.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#6360 - 2014-10-04 08:19:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Christopher Mabata
Dea Doughmaker wrote:
You want supers to have escort... ok! I tell you how to do it without ruining the game. But read in full and not the first two lines. Titan can be only used in the FC slot. Super Carrier can be used only in wing slot. Carrier can be used only in a squad leader slot. Carrier deals full damage only if he has full squad filled with people. If there is 4 people out of 10 in a squad it would deal only 40% damage. This then scales to the super carrier - each full squad gives the super carrier 25% damage. If you have 3 full squads and 1 with 4 people - you will deal 25%x3+10%=85% damage. Then it scales same way to the titan so if you have a titan with only 1 full wing of people it will deal only 25% damage. What does it do - interesting fights - it's better to kill subcaps first to kill caps later. 2. No more titan blobs. On a sunny day goons could probably be able to drop 5-6 titans max at the same time.

Other changes could include:
Damage nerf would apply only to players not to rats so people can still rat in their supers in the belts if they want (at the same time if they are caught they would be easier to kill).

There is a, let's say, 15 mins timer for the diminishing damage effect described above to kick once the fleet members start dying and % goes down. This is so that the caps have time to defend themselves for a little while. 15 mins is a balance between giving the caps a slight chance of escape and not allowing people to exploit the system.

I would still nerf super caps so they can kill subcaps better. Maybe not as well as when these ships were introduced but better than it is now - for example doomsday could hit batttleships a bit more than it does now. Bombers could kill stuff down to cruiser hull stuff - remember there will be not so many of supercaps on the battle field anymore.

To make things even more interesting and varied we could build squad (and that is for all fleets, not only for super fleets) around roles and ship sizes so that each squad could have 2 slots for ships with max size of a frigate, 3 slots with max size of a cruiser, 4 slots with max size of a battleship, 1 with max size of a carrier. This would make it harder to build blobs of 250 megathrons and would force people to vary fleets and use logi, ewar etc. At the same time you could still take a small fun fleets out.


Nope that officially beats Drysons mini hawking blackhole generation ships that transport any ships that scram them to random J-Space as the most absurd and terrabad idea i have read in 24 hours.

Thats a compliment btw its not easy to compete with THE DrysonBennington for Shiptoast of the day

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