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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Big Lynx
#6361 - 2014-10-04 08:19:28 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
For those of you who are weekend pilots,

Here is what has been brought up already.



1. Taking territory as range is nerfed then places like Deklin and Stain become fortresses as it is too far to jump.
2. you can see capitals coming from 100 miles away now.
3. moving stuff to and from empire
4. Pod jumping has been addressed and HAS been updated in the dev blog, but refinement is still needed.
5. People have suggested various forms for scaling jump range.
6. People have suggested various forms for scaling fatigue
7. CCP Has addressed the maximum fatigue issue and will be setting a max cap
8. Everyone has suggested a different decay rate
9 Everyone IS RAGE QUITTING
10. Everyone is resubbing
11. Most alliances are currently buying up large amounts of capitals and stationing them in strategic location for fast responses.
12. CCP WANTS more feed back on black ops.
13. Your mom.
14. How good the tears taste.
15. THIS IS SPARTA! for pages 299-305.
16. Several people calling people who have played EvEtwice to 3 times as long noobs.
17. People posting maths to show CCP better methods for fatigue, decay and jump range.
18. Lots of people saying can i has stuff please?
19. Moon goo in 0.0 vs low sec.


Ok That recaps about the first 310 pages of posts. Join us this weekend for more tears and more love!

Also, dont forget to voice your opinions on module tiericide and how the new names suck.


Edit - for everyone quitting, please contract me all of your stuff, rest assured I will take good care of it or use it all up playing poker.


Gold.
Dea Doughmaker
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6362 - 2014-10-04 08:21:12 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Dea Doughmaker wrote:
You want supers to have escort... ok! I tell you how to do it without ruining the game. But read in full and not the first two lines. Titan can be only used in the FC slot. Super Carrier can be used only in wing slot. Carrier can be used only in a squad leader slot. Carrier deals full damage only if he has full squad filled with people. If there is 4 people out of 10 in a squad it would deal only 40% damage. This then scales to the super carrier - each full squad gives the super carrier 25% damage. If you have 3 full squads and 1 with 4 people - you will deal 25%x3+10%=85% damage. Then it scales same way to the titan so if you have a titan with only 1 full wing of people it will deal only 25% damage. What does it do - interesting fights - it's better to kill subcaps first to kill caps later. 2. No more titan blobs. On a sunny day goons could probably be able to drop 5-6 titans max at the same time.

Other changes could include:
Damage nerf would apply only to players not to rats so people can still rat in their supers in the belts if they want (at the same time if they are caught they would be easier to kill).

There is a, let's say, 15 mins timer for the diminishing damage effect described above to kick once the fleet members start dying and % goes down. This is so that the caps have time to defend themselves for a little while. 15 mins is a balance between giving the caps a slight chance of escape and not allowing people to exploit the system.

I would still nerf super caps so they can kill subcaps better. Maybe not as well as when these ships were introduced but better than it is now - for example doomsday could hit batttleships a bit more than it does now. Bombers could kill stuff down to cruiser hull stuff - remember there will be not so many of supercaps on the battle field anymore.

To make things even more interesting and varied we could build squad (and that is for all fleets, not only for super fleets) around roles and ship sizes so that each squad could have 2 slots for ships with max size of a frigate, 3 slots with max size of a cruiser, 4 slots with max size of a battleship, 1 with max size of a carrier. This would make it harder to build blobs of 250 megathrons and would force people to vary fleets and use logi, ewar etc. At the same time you could still take a small fun fleets out.


Nope that officially beats Drysons mini hawking blackhole generation ships that transport any ships that scram them to random J-Space as the most absurd and terrabad idea i have read in 24 hours.

Thats a compliment btw its not easy to compete with THE DrysonBennington for Shiptoast of the day


ok, so now put some essence to what you said and explain why this idea is stupid?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#6363 - 2014-10-04 08:26:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Johanness wrote:
It seems to me that the idea of a fatigue timer, specially for subcaps, cuts down on the fun factor for the game as waiting is not fun (obviously), it promotes unplayability.


For me too.

Imo the proposed changes show CCP has understood what they have to do, but not exactly how.

But of course this thread is CCP's way to ask us what we think and to propose ideas.


Instead of 300 pages of tears and swearing, imagine if there were 300 pages of suggestions about how to avoid this annoying cooldown and still enforce the changes.

In example, CCP could ask themselves: "screw it with the exponential formulas. What's the minimum amount of time necessary to neuter force projection?"

Because I don't believe for an instant that the current scaling up is any way "fun enough to still keep my supercap" (= prison = 1 dedicated account just for that).

There HAS to be a way to communicate players: "you are not going to be able to insta-jump everywhere but your ship and pilot investment is still worthwhile".

Goons and others HAVE some of the brightest minds in this game, I am sure they could suggest something good. Not because they love this CCP move, but because being forced to pick between the bitter pill and the huge cucumber in the ass.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#6364 - 2014-10-04 08:29:17 UTC
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
It is something CCP should consider though...we play this game to have fun. Here, you do the math...you are your alliances Logistics Guy™. You have to move 10,000,000 m3 out to your space. You have a JF. You have two JF alts, you can swap the JF at a mid point and you have two cyno alts and each jump is 4 LY. How much extra time will fatigue impose on you assuming you wait for fatigue to go down to 0 after each jump?

Give me a ball park number on how many extra hours it would take to get that job done...then tell me what you think the fun factor would be?

I think the 'fun' factor is not "how do imove 10mil/m3" but rather "where can we find that 10mil/m3 already here"


Dude you live in Null, you know you can't find every thing you need in null....as such it has to be imported. Does Fountain have all the different R64s and R32s? If you are going to build your own T2 items...where are you going to get the moon goo you don't produce?

yes, I know, but that surely reduces the 10mil down quite a bit. The way it is now is pretty much buy in jita (either in material form or final product) and ship to null. Now it will be more reasonable to find it locally and import what is needed. Imports and exports won't go away for sure, but they will be drastically reduced based on imperative need for it. Its going to take 5 hours and 4 alts to move a few BS worth of materials to null? we could just mine it in a simliar amount of time with less fuel cost. JF and transports will move into a role of moving only the essentials. High end and scarcer goods required for advanced industry. Which means higher collaterals and payments due to extra time. Avoiding unnecessary moves and wasted space. It'll still suck tryin to move the items but it offers more forethought and gameplay for others as well.

E: also to take into consideration is what to build. Maybe the group will consider switching into locally friendly doctrines in order to encourage volume.


Serious question have you done logistics work for your alliance? I have not myself, but I have talked to guys who have, and I do other work for our corp...I know that there is lots of stuff we just can't source locally no matter how hard we try. Even if you could cut the load in half...do the math how long to move 5,000,000 m3?
I've done logistics for my own corp for a short period and I do it for my own indy operations. Albeit not in quantities as large as that. I know not all things can be sourced locally, and if you compare what can be local and all possibilities to be made from non-wormhole its small. But thats a change to consider. It now comes down to other options instead of just shipping everything from jita. There will be shortages of certain items and surplus of others (especially things others are having a hard time acquiring). if anything this will encourage trade and make regional materials more profitable to ship out. Under the current status this isnt a perfect system. However there are other changes planned ahead and this isnt the last of them. when Pheobe hits many people will have massive stockpiles of things they need to cushion te loss of logistics power. After they dry up theyll either switch production, much like people did in crius, or pay extra for imported materials. This will affect everyone, even large alliances, since the logistics power and demand for goods tends to scale semi-linearly with growth. I'm not saying everything is going to be the same or just as easy afterwards. It will require many changes in operations and goals.
Christopher Mabata
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6365 - 2014-10-04 08:32:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Christopher Mabata
Dea Doughmaker wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Dea Doughmaker wrote:
You want supers to have escort... ok! I tell you how to do it without ruining the game. But read in full and not the first two lines. Titan can be only used in the FC slot. Super Carrier can be used only in wing slot. Carrier can be used only in a squad leader slot. Carrier deals full damage only if he has full squad filled with people. If there is 4 people out of 10 in a squad it would deal only 40% damage. This then scales to the super carrier - each full squad gives the super carrier 25% damage. If you have 3 full squads and 1 with 4 people - you will deal 25%x3+10%=85% damage. Then it scales same way to the titan so if you have a titan with only 1 full wing of people it will deal only 25% damage. What does it do - interesting fights - it's better to kill subcaps first to kill caps later. 2. No more titan blobs. On a sunny day goons could probably be able to drop 5-6 titans max at the same time.

Other changes could include:
Damage nerf would apply only to players not to rats so people can still rat in their supers in the belts if they want (at the same time if they are caught they would be easier to kill).

There is a, let's say, 15 mins timer for the diminishing damage effect described above to kick once the fleet members start dying and % goes down. This is so that the caps have time to defend themselves for a little while. 15 mins is a balance between giving the caps a slight chance of escape and not allowing people to exploit the system.

I would still nerf super caps so they can kill subcaps better. Maybe not as well as when these ships were introduced but better than it is now - for example doomsday could hit batttleships a bit more than it does now. Bombers could kill stuff down to cruiser hull stuff - remember there will be not so many of supercaps on the battle field anymore.

To make things even more interesting and varied we could build squad (and that is for all fleets, not only for super fleets) around roles and ship sizes so that each squad could have 2 slots for ships with max size of a frigate, 3 slots with max size of a cruiser, 4 slots with max size of a battleship, 1 with max size of a carrier. This would make it harder to build blobs of 250 megathrons and would force people to vary fleets and use logi, ewar etc. At the same time you could still take a small fun fleets out.


Nope that officially beats Drysons mini hawking blackhole generation ships that transport any ships that scram them to random J-Space as the most absurd and terrabad idea i have read in 24 hours.

Thats a compliment btw its not easy to compete with THE DrysonBennington for Shiptoast of the day


ok, so now put some essence to what you said and explain why this idea is stupid?


Because the second you restrict pilots to what slot they can occupy based on what they fly ESPECIALLY when it comes to supers you do no good you just further alienate experienced veteran pilots ( at least in most cases thats what they are ) from what they can do with a ship they trained for years to get.

Imagine you buy a bugati veyron, pimped dafuq out all the best goodies, it took you 2 years to save for it, and the next day customs comes and tows it away and says "sorry but you can only drive this car in syberia due to a new law in place. How would you feel then?

Plus if you really know anything about supers post from a not few day old forum alt, if you want any credibility here there has to be a name attached, even if it carries no weight to most people. We see forum alt and basically theres a subconscious ignore button because odds are:

1. Youve never flown a super
2. Youve never flown a Combat cap into combat
3. youve never seen a titan outside imgur or a POS
4. you probably live in highsec

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#6366 - 2014-10-04 08:32:21 UTC
Dea Doughmaker wrote:
You want supers to have escort... ok! I tell you how to do it without ruining the game. But read in full and not the first two lines. Titan can be only used in the FC slot. Super Carrier can be used only in wing slot. Carrier can be used only in a squad leader slot. Carrier deals full damage only if he has full squad filled with people. If there is 4 people out of 10 in a squad it would deal only 40% damage. This then scales to the super carrier - each full squad gives the super carrier 25% damage. If you have 3 full squads and 1 with 4 people - you will deal 25%x3+10%=85% damage. Then it scales same way to the titan so if you have a titan with only 1 full wing of people it will deal only 25% damage. What does it do - interesting fights - it's better to kill subcaps first to kill caps later. 2. No more titan blobs. On a sunny day goons could probably be able to drop 5-6 titans max at the same time.

Other changes could include:
Damage nerf would apply only to players not to rats so people can still rat in their supers in the belts if they want (at the same time if they are caught they would be easier to kill).

There is a, let's say, 15 mins timer for the diminishing damage effect described above to kick once the fleet members start dying and % goes down. This is so that the caps have time to defend themselves for a little while. 15 mins is a balance between giving the caps a slight chance of escape and not allowing people to exploit the system.

I would still nerf super caps so they can kill subcaps better. Maybe not as well as when these ships were introduced but better than it is now - for example doomsday could hit batttleships a bit more than it does now. Bombers could kill stuff down to cruiser hull stuff - remember there will be not so many of supercaps on the battle field anymore.

To make things even more interesting and varied we could build squad (and that is for all fleets, not only for super fleets) around roles and ship sizes so that each squad could have 2 slots for ships with max size of a frigate, 3 slots with max size of a cruiser, 4 slots with max size of a battleship, 1 with max size of a carrier. This would make it harder to build blobs of 250 megathrons and would force people to vary fleets and use logi, ewar etc. At the same time you could still take a small fun fleets out.

but why?
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6367 - 2014-10-04 08:33:16 UTC
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
All these young spoiled brats used to have carriers everywhere and plnety of JF pilots around...eve existed before the jump drives and everything was just fine :P

Just consider nerfing carriers repping power outside of triage as well please.


Roll
Dea Doughmaker
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6368 - 2014-10-04 08:37:05 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Dea Doughmaker wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Dea Doughmaker wrote:
You want supers to have escort... ok! I tell you how to do it without ruining the game. But read in full and not the first two lines. Titan can be only used in the FC slot. Super Carrier can be used only in wing slot. Carrier can be used only in a squad leader slot. Carrier deals full damage only if he has full squad filled with people. If there is 4 people out of 10 in a squad it would deal only 40% damage. This then scales to the super carrier - each full squad gives the super carrier 25% damage. If you have 3 full squads and 1 with 4 people - you will deal 25%x3+10%=85% damage. Then it scales same way to the titan so if you have a titan with only 1 full wing of people it will deal only 25% damage. What does it do - interesting fights - it's better to kill subcaps first to kill caps later. 2. No more titan blobs. On a sunny day goons could probably be able to drop 5-6 titans max at the same time.

Other changes could include:
Damage nerf would apply only to players not to rats so people can still rat in their supers in the belts if they want (at the same time if they are caught they would be easier to kill).

There is a, let's say, 15 mins timer for the diminishing damage effect described above to kick once the fleet members start dying and % goes down. This is so that the caps have time to defend themselves for a little while. 15 mins is a balance between giving the caps a slight chance of escape and not allowing people to exploit the system.

I would still nerf super caps so they can kill subcaps better. Maybe not as well as when these ships were introduced but better than it is now - for example doomsday could hit batttleships a bit more than it does now. Bombers could kill stuff down to cruiser hull stuff - remember there will be not so many of supercaps on the battle field anymore.

To make things even more interesting and varied we could build squad (and that is for all fleets, not only for super fleets) around roles and ship sizes so that each squad could have 2 slots for ships with max size of a frigate, 3 slots with max size of a cruiser, 4 slots with max size of a battleship, 1 with max size of a carrier. This would make it harder to build blobs of 250 megathrons and would force people to vary fleets and use logi, ewar etc. At the same time you could still take a small fun fleets out.


Nope that officially beats Drysons mini hawking blackhole generation ships that transport any ships that scram them to random J-Space as the most absurd and terrabad idea i have read in 24 hours.

Thats a compliment btw its not easy to compete with THE DrysonBennington for Shiptoast of the day


ok, so now put some essence to what you said and explain why this idea is stupid?


Because the second you restrict pilots to what slot they can occupy based on what they fly ESPECIALLY when it comes to supers you do no good you just further alienate experienced veteran pilots ( at least in most cases thats what they are ) from what they can do with a ship they trained for years to get.

Imagine you buy a bugati veyron, pimped dafuq out all the best goodies, it took you 2 years to save for it, and the next day customs comes and tows it away and says "sorry but you can only drive this car in syberia due to a new law in place. How would you feel then?


well you aretold you cant drive your bugatti to the full anyways because of the speed limits. if you want to drive it to the full you need to take it to the racecourse or go to germany but that aside. It's better to force players how to use their ships than to make them waste of time to train for in the first place. I am a cap pilot too. Thanks for your answer anyways. At least I know where you are coming from.
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6369 - 2014-10-04 08:37:32 UTC
Rowells wrote:
I've done logistics for my own corp for a short period and I do it for my own indy operations. Albeit not in quantities as large as that. I know not all things can be sourced locally, and if you compare what can be local and all possibilities to be made from non-wormhole its small. But thats a change to consider. It now comes down to other options instead of just shipping everything from jita. There will be shortages of certain items and surplus of others (especially things others are having a hard time acquiring). if anything this will encourage trade and make regional materials more profitable to ship out. Under the current status this isnt a perfect system. However there are other changes planned ahead and this isnt the last of them. when Pheobe hits many people will have massive stockpiles of things they need to cushion te loss of logistics power. After they dry up theyll either switch production, much like people did in crius, or pay extra for imported materials. This will affect everyone, even large alliances, since the logistics power and demand for goods tends to scale semi-linearly with growth. I'm not saying everything is going to be the same or just as easy afterwards. It will require many changes in operations and goals.


The answer is that moving that kind of stuff will take an extra 3.5 hours or so. So it is not likely that people currently doing logistics will want to keep doing it. Making the game less fun is not a good idea.

And Jita is where the different regions basically come together and trade....it is actually a very good thing.
Dea Doughmaker
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6370 - 2014-10-04 08:40:34 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Dea Doughmaker wrote:
You want supers to have escort... ok! I tell you how to do it without ruining the game. But read in full and not the first two lines. Titan can be only used in the FC slot. Super Carrier can be used only in wing slot. Carrier can be used only in a squad leader slot. Carrier deals full damage only if he has full squad filled with people. If there is 4 people out of 10 in a squad it would deal only 40% damage. This then scales to the super carrier - each full squad gives the super carrier 25% damage. If you have 3 full squads and 1 with 4 people - you will deal 25%x3+10%=85% damage. Then it scales same way to the titan so if you have a titan with only 1 full wing of people it will deal only 25% damage. What does it do - interesting fights - it's better to kill subcaps first to kill caps later. 2. No more titan blobs. On a sunny day goons could probably be able to drop 5-6 titans max at the same time.

Other changes could include:
Damage nerf would apply only to players not to rats so people can still rat in their supers in the belts if they want (at the same time if they are caught they would be easier to kill).

There is a, let's say, 15 mins timer for the diminishing damage effect described above to kick once the fleet members start dying and % goes down. This is so that the caps have time to defend themselves for a little while. 15 mins is a balance between giving the caps a slight chance of escape and not allowing people to exploit the system.

I would still nerf super caps so they can kill subcaps better. Maybe not as well as when these ships were introduced but better than it is now - for example doomsday could hit batttleships a bit more than it does now. Bombers could kill stuff down to cruiser hull stuff - remember there will be not so many of supercaps on the battle field anymore.

To make things even more interesting and varied we could build squad (and that is for all fleets, not only for super fleets) around roles and ship sizes so that each squad could have 2 slots for ships with max size of a frigate, 3 slots with max size of a cruiser, 4 slots with max size of a battleship, 1 with max size of a carrier. This would make it harder to build blobs of 250 megathrons and would force people to vary fleets and use logi, ewar etc. At the same time you could still take a small fun fleets out.

but why?


to limit the force projection without limiting the opportunity for quick engagements. not everyone has 6 hours to wait in the fleet before it comes to the engagement and thats what these changes will lead to. ability to move around the map facilitates quick engagements and limits the idle time. this game is already heavy on idle time. more idle time more boredom more players moving on to other games.
Dea Doughmaker
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6371 - 2014-10-04 08:41:23 UTC
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
Rowells wrote:
I've done logistics for my own corp for a short period and I do it for my own indy operations. Albeit not in quantities as large as that. I know not all things can be sourced locally, and if you compare what can be local and all possibilities to be made from non-wormhole its small. But thats a change to consider. It now comes down to other options instead of just shipping everything from jita. There will be shortages of certain items and surplus of others (especially things others are having a hard time acquiring). if anything this will encourage trade and make regional materials more profitable to ship out. Under the current status this isnt a perfect system. However there are other changes planned ahead and this isnt the last of them. when Pheobe hits many people will have massive stockpiles of things they need to cushion te loss of logistics power. After they dry up theyll either switch production, much like people did in crius, or pay extra for imported materials. This will affect everyone, even large alliances, since the logistics power and demand for goods tends to scale semi-linearly with growth. I'm not saying everything is going to be the same or just as easy afterwards. It will require many changes in operations and goals.


The answer is that moving that kind of stuff will take an extra 3.5 hours or so. So it is not likely that people currently doing logistics will want to keep doing it. Making the game less fun is not a good idea.

And Jita is where the different regions basically come together and trade....it is actually a very good thing.


precisely
Christopher Mabata
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6372 - 2014-10-04 08:42:16 UTC
Dea Doughmaker wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Dea Doughmaker wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Dea Doughmaker wrote:
You want supers to have escort... ok! I tell you how to do it without ruining the game. But read in full and not the first two lines. Titan can be only used in the FC slot. Super Carrier can be used only in wing slot. Carrier can be used only in a squad leader slot. Carrier deals full damage only if he has full squad filled with people. If there is 4 people out of 10 in a squad it would deal only 40% damage. This then scales to the super carrier - each full squad gives the super carrier 25% damage. If you have 3 full squads and 1 with 4 people - you will deal 25%x3+10%=85% damage. Then it scales same way to the titan so if you have a titan with only 1 full wing of people it will deal only 25% damage. What does it do - interesting fights - it's better to kill subcaps first to kill caps later. 2. No more titan blobs. On a sunny day goons could probably be able to drop 5-6 titans max at the same time.

Other changes could include:
Damage nerf would apply only to players not to rats so people can still rat in their supers in the belts if they want (at the same time if they are caught they would be easier to kill).

There is a, let's say, 15 mins timer for the diminishing damage effect described above to kick once the fleet members start dying and % goes down. This is so that the caps have time to defend themselves for a little while. 15 mins is a balance between giving the caps a slight chance of escape and not allowing people to exploit the system.

I would still nerf super caps so they can kill subcaps better. Maybe not as well as when these ships were introduced but better than it is now - for example doomsday could hit batttleships a bit more than it does now. Bombers could kill stuff down to cruiser hull stuff - remember there will be not so many of supercaps on the battle field anymore.

To make things even more interesting and varied we could build squad (and that is for all fleets, not only for super fleets) around roles and ship sizes so that each squad could have 2 slots for ships with max size of a frigate, 3 slots with max size of a cruiser, 4 slots with max size of a battleship, 1 with max size of a carrier. This would make it harder to build blobs of 250 megathrons and would force people to vary fleets and use logi, ewar etc. At the same time you could still take a small fun fleets out.


Nope that officially beats Drysons mini hawking blackhole generation ships that transport any ships that scram them to random J-Space as the most absurd and terrabad idea i have read in 24 hours.

Thats a compliment btw its not easy to compete with THE DrysonBennington for Shiptoast of the day


ok, so now put some essence to what you said and explain why this idea is stupid?


Because the second you restrict pilots to what slot they can occupy based on what they fly ESPECIALLY when it comes to supers you do no good you just further alienate experienced veteran pilots ( at least in most cases thats what they are ) from what they can do with a ship they trained for years to get.

Imagine you buy a bugati veyron, pimped dafuq out all the best goodies, it took you 2 years to save for it, and the next day customs comes and tows it away and says "sorry but you can only drive this car in syberia due to a new law in place. How would you feel then?


well you aretold you cant drive your bugatti to the full anyways because of the speed limits. if you want to drive it to the full you need to take it to the racecourse or go to germany but that aside. It's better to force players how to use their ships than to make them waste of time to train for in the first place. I am a cap pilot too. Thanks for your answer anyways. At least I know where you are coming from.


rheas and such dont count for the record, but anyways

no its not better to force players to fly ships a certain way, i will take freedom any day of the week ( yes im American ) over being told exactly how to fit something and exactly how to fly it. If CCP ever put out new rules that guidelined exactly how ships MUST be flied less its an exploit or bannable offense i would unsub my accounts in a quarter of a heartbeat, and that says a lot about how much freedom means to people. I KNOW im not alone on that either. I will waste 6 months of training if it means still having the freedom to do what i want with the end result, ive done it 2 times already ( mining and reprocessing skills to max wish i could dump that elsewhere lol )

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet

Dea Doughmaker
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6373 - 2014-10-04 08:50:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Dea Doughmaker
Quote:

Because the second you restrict pilots to what slot they can occupy based on what they fly ESPECIALLY when it comes to supers you do no good you just further alienate experienced veteran pilots ( at least in most cases thats what they are ) from what they can do with a ship they trained for years to get.

Imagine you buy a bugati veyron, pimped dafuq out all the best goodies, it took you 2 years to save for it, and the next day customs comes and tows it away and says "sorry but you can only drive this car in syberia due to a new law in place. How would you feel then?

well you aretold you cant drive your bugatti to the full anyways because of the speed limits. if you want to drive it to the full you need to take it to the racecourse or go to germany but that aside. It's better to force players how to use their ships than to make them waste of time to train for in the first place. I am a cap pilot too. Thanks for your answer anyways. At least I know where you are coming from.

rheas and such dont count for the record, but anyways

no its not better to force players to fly ships a certain way, i will take freedom any day of the week ( yes im American ) over being told exactly how to fit something and exactly how to fly it. If CCP ever put out new rules that guidelined exactly how ships MUST be flied less its an exploit or bannable offense i would unsub my accounts in a quarter of a heartbeat, and that says a lot about how much freedom means to people. I KNOW im not alone on that either. I will waste 6 months of training if it means still having the freedom to do what i want with the end result, ive done it 2 times already ( mining and reprocessing skills to max wish i could dump that elsewhere lol )


ok, see, i am a european and i like my government to tell me and other people what to do as long as it makes for a better change for everyone. as for your freedom you have freedom to have guns and every year 35,000 f you die cos of that freedom. more than some of the conflicts in 3rd world countries. please do not kill this game for your freedom. and yea i am in this game since 2008 if you weight the opinions based on the character age.
Momitsu
Deep Exploration Projects and Programs
#6374 - 2014-10-04 08:52:02 UTC
We should seriously think about cutting down fuel bays related to the new jumprange.

Right now you can travel really long distances without the need to refuel. You can travel roundabout 70 lightyears with your jumpfreighter which equals 6+ maxrange jumps. After that patch one should be able to make the same number of jumps instead of beeing able to jump 14 times.

Would make that change even better
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd
Nulli Secunda
#6375 - 2014-10-04 08:52:38 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Myriad Blaze wrote:
Disiri Skai wrote:
So while everyone else bitches and moans about the changes in the capital area...has ccp though about the fact that this will officially kill Battleship fleets.

They warp slow, align slow and don't even pack the punch the much faster T3s. They are already a rare sight in the battlefield. With the need to travel through gates cruisers will become even more prevalent than now. Plus with the JF nerfs space will be at a premium...and you can bring 10 cruisers for every battleship.



I am all for capital changes but please for the love of god don't kill battleships, give them something to make the effort of bringing them somewhere worth it.

I fully trust CCP to find a "fix" for this. Like removing the ability to jump to zero for capitals. Or maybe they will add a "gate fatigue" timer. Or they will "rebalance" capitals and reduce EHP, DPS, capacity and warp speed to 20-25% of their current values to make battleships desirable in comparison. No wait, I have it... in the future capitals need "fuel" to use jump gates... 1 PLEX per jump seems reasonable (to CCP). That way CCP will try to compensate for the losses from subscriptions that were canceled because of these changes.


That almost beats Dryson's post about Mini hawking radiation blackhole generator ships as the most absurd thing i have read in the last 24 hours

Just almost? Shocked
Meh... I knew I should have included that idea to implent a "jump gate permission timer" for capitals that needs to be resetted every 2 or 3 jumps. The catch is, that you need to go to a public terminal in Iceland in person to enter your account information, be identified via biometric data (to rule out account sharing), plug in your mobile CCP security key (that you can order from CCP for just 3 PLEX plus fees for delivery) before you finally may enter the 20 digit one-time-use "jump gate permission timer reset code" you got from customer support.
Twisted
Christopher Mabata
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6376 - 2014-10-04 09:07:02 UTC
Dea Doughmaker wrote:
Quote:

Because the second you restrict pilots to what slot they can occupy based on what they fly ESPECIALLY when it comes to supers you do no good you just further alienate experienced veteran pilots ( at least in most cases thats what they are ) from what they can do with a ship they trained for years to get.

Imagine you buy a bugati veyron, pimped dafuq out all the best goodies, it took you 2 years to save for it, and the next day customs comes and tows it away and says "sorry but you can only drive this car in syberia due to a new law in place. How would you feel then?

well you aretold you cant drive your bugatti to the full anyways because of the speed limits. if you want to drive it to the full you need to take it to the racecourse or go to germany but that aside. It's better to force players how to use their ships than to make them waste of time to train for in the first place. I am a cap pilot too. Thanks for your answer anyways. At least I know where you are coming from.

rheas and such dont count for the record, but anyways

no its not better to force players to fly ships a certain way, i will take freedom any day of the week ( yes im American ) over being told exactly how to fit something and exactly how to fly it. If CCP ever put out new rules that guidelined exactly how ships MUST be flied less its an exploit or bannable offense i would unsub my accounts in a quarter of a heartbeat, and that says a lot about how much freedom means to people. I KNOW im not alone on that either. I will waste 6 months of training if it means still having the freedom to do what i want with the end result, ive done it 2 times already ( mining and reprocessing skills to max wish i could dump that elsewhere lol )


ok, see, i am a european and i like my government to tell me and other people what to do as long as it makes for a better change for everyone. as for your freedom you have freedom to have guns and every year 35,000 f you die cos of that freedom. more than some of the conflicts in 3rd world countries. please do not kill this game for your freedom. and yea i am in this game since 2008 if you weight the opinions based on the character age.


Pro tip: Those werent the legal ones, the legal ones keep 123,657 people alive per year during incidents at their homes ( on avg based ona 2012 census )

And no i dont weigh opinions based on age at all, i weigh it based on what people have DONE, not dabbled in what they actually went ballz to the wall deep into, dove in head first and just did it, not beat around the bush going, well i can fly one and i have one but just because i never use it doesnt mean anything.

And how does freedom killa game? freedom promotes content, because when you do what you want when you want **** can hit the fan, thats why its a sandbox not a steel cage lined with explosive mines and a shark tank like your proposing. Literally in your idea its based around if you fly this this is EVERYTHING that you can do, and its even limited by fleet slots!

In my idea for eve its, i think im going to get drunk fit a hyperion and leeroy it into pirate low sec and see what happens, not a bunch of people with identical fit fraking drakes derping about then crying when something gets strong enough to kill their drakes. Drakes that are not to mention limited to which squad they can be in based on the dude whos in the chimera. This kills ship balancing completely and utterly which would kill the game at roughly the equal speed of slowly flooding the server room with gasoline and then lighting a smoke or taking them and launching them into the sun at 1/2 light speed. Your idea is i dont want to make my own choices in the sandbox i want someone to tell me how to build my sand castle so it looks like 10,000 others

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#6377 - 2014-10-04 09:07:03 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Charlotte Ginger wrote:

There is no need for this what so ever. Grab a Frig, and FLY

Seriously?


Anything that makes it easier for new players to start doing interesting stuff straight away is a thing that we are interested in supporting :)


The possibility of developing interesting stuff for the ample majority of players who don't care about nullsec is not in your plans, right?

Most of the increasingly fewer new players meet the wrong content and quit -what is CCP's solution? Make it easier to find the tiny bit of accidentally right content! How about improve the content everybody finds just by starting the game? Nooo, it's CCP what we're talking here...
Christopher Mabata
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6378 - 2014-10-04 09:08:30 UTC
Momitsu wrote:
We should seriously think about cutting down fuel bays related to the new jumprange.

Right now you can travel really long distances without the need to refuel. You can travel roundabout 70 lightyears with your jumpfreighter which equals 6+ maxrange jumps. After that patch one should be able to make the same number of jumps instead of beeing able to jump 14 times.

Would make that change even better


except you forgot your next kid is going to born before your drive finishes cooling down, you might even be retiring too!

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet

Riven Alteritus
Liberty Logistics Company
#6379 - 2014-10-04 09:08:40 UTC
I'll say this again, the power projection of null at the moment is broken, 5000+ man fights are dumb and in reality stupid. Limiting jumping and keeping sov space accessible to those wanting to take over without having the CFC horde dropping on them is a good starting point to getting smaller groups out to fight for their own sov space. As it stands coalitions at the moment are broken. Just because you have 50 caps does not mean they should all be employable at all sides of null at the same time.

It's time to think about strategic positioning of caps that can react to a threat in a certain area instead of rounding everyone into a massive blob just to outnumber the bullets with cannon fodder. Sov space for the large alliances and coalitions will shrink and there will be less bullshit coming from them as well.

Time to employ your brains people, here's a brain wrecker for most of you; "HOW can I keep deep null systems whilst having a safer route to high-sec without owning half of null?"
Here's a quick tip! Pick a system near high-sec, string out sov from there making a path to your deep null pocket, and defend it. The rest is up to you null bears to figure out. So glad these changes are coming, no more massive coalitions breaking the game.

Sov as it stands is broken and needs some quick demolition, I hope changes happen where different sized ships / tier ships have different fatigue levels, so you can still take 2000+ people to a single system, only that most would be in cruisers/ frigates. THAT would be a fight to see. 2k frigates going at each other, forming fleets doctrines, fleets, dedicated squads, no more of that titan/super/capital blob.

Although I do think that Blops/Rorqual/JF fatigue is a bit too strong, especially Blops considering these are not capitals, maybe employ a bonus to blop ships that lowers the multiplicative factor to fatigue.
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
#6380 - 2014-10-04 09:11:14 UTC
Dea Doughmaker wrote:


ok, see, i am a european and i like my government to tell me and other people what to do as long as it makes for a better change for everyone. as for your freedom you have freedom to have guns and every year 35,000 f you die cos of that freedom. more than some of the conflicts in 3rd world countries. please do not kill this game for your freedom. and yea i am in this game since 2008 if you weight the opinions based on the character age.



Uhm ok.....we are talking about null sec politics, a sci-fi oriented spaceship game, where there is no Earth.....can we leave the RW stuff at the EvE gate. Who cares about the garbage you just posted there.....all its going to do is cause tension in ways that do not need to be considered here and arguments we all do not need to hear.

Now please......back to the true discussion/debate at hand.