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Dev blog: Rebalancing EVE, One Module At A Time

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Lelira Cirim
Doomheim
#41 - 2014-09-25 17:16:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Lelira Cirim
Did Fozzie redo Damage Controls like he talked about? :) Guess that's for later.

/starts singing Paul Simon's "Please don't take my Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron away...."

Do not actively tank my patience.
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#42 - 2014-09-25 17:20:50 UTC
Shouldn't Scoped Survey Scanner have a CPU requirement of 5 not 4? Seems odd that the Scoped is reducing CPU and giving range.
Cristl
#43 - 2014-09-25 17:22:42 UTC
Hawkin Shadowblade wrote:
As much as I do actually like the direction of the changes, you need to seriously reconsider the naming dynamic you have adopted; it's absolutely horrid in that it is reminiscent of the naming policy of other traditional MMOs:
Leather Jerkin of the Monkey?
Okay, it has an agility bonus...
Yes, this is a nice way to show the role of an item at a glance. The problem is it kills immersion in a game like EVE. There is a level of immersion involved with shopping for outfitting your ship. Buying a set of XM-2300 Missile Launchers fits with the atmosphere and general "a world you could live in" vibe you guys have been going for. By giving them role based names, I instantly had WoW flashbacks, and the names sound pretty lame, I'll be honest:
An ample Railgun?
A Scoped Railgun?
A SCOPED Railgun!?
Are you implying any other variation of Railgun is without scope? Again, you should really reconsider this renaming policy. It is not the direction you should be looking.


I'd like to second this. I'm worried that someone at CCP has been told to make the names less varied ("easier") because that will help retain new players. Quite the reverse: the fact you needed to look up your equipment made Eve feel like a real, immersive new universe and was originally part of the attraction for me. Don't throw that away.

Leather Jerkin of the Monkey?. Perfect.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#44 - 2014-09-25 17:25:18 UTC
Hey, baby, wanna see my Ample Launcher?

(I really wouldn't mind the old names back, or at least something less awkward-sounding.)

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Adaahh Gee
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#45 - 2014-09-25 17:26:06 UTC
We've been here before, is it a two year cycle?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=61741
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
#46 - 2014-09-25 17:30:55 UTC
Ranamar wrote:
[quote=PinkKnife]

Also, I'm confused now. Wasn't restrained supposed to have reduced drawbacks, rather than increased drawbacks?


Yeah cap flux are pretty fucky.

Preliminary tests:

Gnosis with only 100mn mwd 1 = 2:10; 2531 GJ
1 cfc2 (2:00; 2025GJ); cpr (2:30)
2 cfc2 (2:10; 1620GJ); cpr (3:30)
3 cfc2 (5:00; 1296GJ); cpr (15:00)
4 cfc2 (21.7%; 1036GJ); cpr (22.7%)
5 cfc2 (40.3%; 829GJ); cpr (41.2%)
6 cfc2 (54.5%; 663GJ); cpr (55.3%)

Blue-Fire Best Fire
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#47 - 2014-09-25 17:32:30 UTC
Adaahh Gee wrote:
We've been here before, is it a two year cycle?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=61741


Man I still find website articles referring to "Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters" as the best ones.

Think of all the blogs/sites that are now going to be out of date once the names start changing again.

Maybe CCP should build and provide a find/replace file for the module tiercide to make it easier for external resource managers like EVE University WIki to make updates?
Ponder Yonder
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#48 - 2014-09-25 17:36:06 UTC
Cristl wrote:
Hawkin Shadowblade wrote:
As much as I do actually like the direction of the changes, you need to seriously reconsider the naming dynamic you have adopted; it's absolutely horrid in that it is reminiscent of the naming policy of other traditional MMOs:
Leather Jerkin of the Monkey?
Okay, it has an agility bonus...
Yes, this is a nice way to show the role of an item at a glance. The problem is it kills immersion in a game like EVE. There is a level of immersion involved with shopping for outfitting your ship. Buying a set of XM-2300 Missile Launchers fits with the atmosphere and general "a world you could live in" vibe you guys have been going for. By giving them role based names, I instantly had WoW flashbacks, and the names sound pretty lame, I'll be honest:
An ample Railgun?
A Scoped Railgun?
A SCOPED Railgun!?
Are you implying any other variation of Railgun is without scope? Again, you should really reconsider this renaming policy. It is not the direction you should be looking.


I'd like to second this. I'm worried that someone at CCP has been told to make the names less varied ("easier") because that will help retain new players. Quite the reverse: the fact you needed to look up your equipment made Eve feel like a real, immersive new universe and was originally part of the attraction for me. Don't throw that away.

Leather Jerkin of the Monkey?. Perfect.


CCP, Please retain some of immersive elements. Call it a Gaussian Scoped Railgun, or an XT-3200 Ample Launcher, or whatever. The quirks make Eve interesting.
Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#49 - 2014-09-25 17:41:16 UTC
Ransu Asanari wrote:
Adaahh Gee wrote:
We've been here before, is it a two year cycle?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=61741


Man I still find website articles referring to "Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters" as the best ones.

Think of all the blogs/sites that are now going to be out of date once the names start changing again.

Maybe CCP should build and provide a find/replace file for the module tiercide to make it easier for external resource managers like EVE University WIki to make updates?


There's a common ground to be had.

Special naming sucks when you want to find a processor upgrade and search for "proc" on the market and find

Co-Processer I
Nanoelectrical Co-Processer 1
Quantum Co-Processor 1
Co-Processer II

but not

Nanomechanical CPU Enhancer I or
Photonic CPU Enhancer I

which are probably the meta item you want and now have to spend extra clicks to Info on the base model, variations, info, show market details. That is bad naming complexity with no value.

But I agree that something other than standard MMO prefix/suffix fare is desired.
Ion Rubix
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2014-09-25 17:41:38 UTC
Although I can appreciate the direction you're taking some of the names are less a than inspiring! An online thesaurus gave me better options:

* Restrained - Limited, Suppressed, Inhibited

* Enduring - Sustained

* Ample (Seriously!!!) - Expanded, Extensive

Some of these alternatives I've seen somewhere before... now let me think...
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#51 - 2014-09-25 17:42:02 UTC
What does this mean for invention as mentioned in the previous dev blog? Are you getting ahead of yourself?

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder
Hawkin Shadowblade
State War Academy
Caldari State
#52 - 2014-09-25 17:44:18 UTC
Ponder Yonder wrote:
Cristl wrote:
Hawkin Shadowblade wrote:
As much as I do actually like the direction of the changes, you need to seriously reconsider the naming dynamic you have adopted; it's absolutely horrid in that it is reminiscent of the naming policy of other traditional MMOs:
Leather Jerkin of the Monkey?
Okay, it has an agility bonus...
Yes, this is a nice way to show the role of an item at a glance. The problem is it kills immersion in a game like EVE. There is a level of immersion involved with shopping for outfitting your ship. Buying a set of XM-2300 Missile Launchers fits with the atmosphere and general "a world you could live in" vibe you guys have been going for. By giving them role based names, I instantly had WoW flashbacks, and the names sound pretty lame, I'll be honest:
An ample Railgun?
A Scoped Railgun?
A SCOPED Railgun!?
Are you implying any other variation of Railgun is without scope? Again, you should really reconsider this renaming policy. It is not the direction you should be looking.


I'd like to second this. I'm worried that someone at CCP has been told to make the names less varied ("easier") because that will help retain new players. Quite the reverse: the fact you needed to look up your equipment made Eve feel like a real, immersive new universe and was originally part of the attraction for me. Don't throw that away.

Leather Jerkin of the Monkey?. Perfect.


CCP, Please retain some of immersive elements. Call it a Gaussian Scoped Railgun, or an XT-3200 Ample Launcher, or whatever. The quirks make Eve interesting.


The "scoped"/"ample"/etc. shouldn't be there at all, in my opinion. As Cristl stated, it was a huge point of immersion when you'd actually have to look up and research your gear, it's advantages and disadvantages and why you would or wouldn't use it compared to other similar modules. I think if they're going to rename them, and I frankly think they should, they should take the opportunity to kind of tie the modules into the lore a bit more. Names suggesting a railgun that specializes in range is of Intaki origin or such. This is their opportunity to either really boost the immersion, or seriously damage it.
scimichar
Deep Hole Explorers of New Eden
#53 - 2014-09-25 17:44:40 UTC
Still no reason to use T1 over scoped, ample, or T2.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#54 - 2014-09-25 17:49:39 UTC  |  Edited by: TrouserDeagle
please fix laser naming, it's totally horrible and makes me mad:

dual light beam laser
small focused beam laser

so first thing is we have light and we have small. I'm thinking you should either have things being light medium heavy, or you have them be small medium large. having both in the same set of modules upsets me greatly.

and secondly, we have the 'size' word in a different place on each - should be either dual light and focused small, or it should be light dual and small focused.

so to make me happy, we would have 'dual light' and 'focused light'. or we'd find something new entirely, because small focused is stupid, and medium is also stupid.


and I'm sure these will be gone, but:

Dual Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I
Dual Heavy Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I

you're killing me here.

/autism
Hawkin Shadowblade
State War Academy
Caldari State
#55 - 2014-09-25 17:49:52 UTC
scimichar wrote:
Still no reason to use T1 over scoped, ample, or T2.

That's another thing I was interested in seeing, if they'd have any reason to use the meta 0 (What is civilian then? Meta -1?) modules. The three logical courses are they remove meta 0's completely, which would be a waste. Make them the go-to all around weapons without the bonuses and inferred penalties of Meta 1's. Or simply make them relatively dirt cheap.
Almethea
Trans Stellar Express
#56 - 2014-09-25 17:49:57 UTC
Destroying EVE history, One parts At A Time ?

even if i can undestand it will more easy for the precious new player xp, i feel old may be it's time for me

there's so many thing to fix in eve.... and they fix forum ! GJ! but ok i like it !

CCP Fozzie : AFK cloaking, however, is an entirely social form of power
Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#57 - 2014-09-25 17:50:48 UTC
scimichar wrote:
Still no reason to use T1 over scoped, ample, or T2.


The scoped or ample modules should penalize the stat they are not improving thus making T1 the middle ground module vs. one that sacrifices A for B.
Adaahh Gee
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#58 - 2014-09-25 17:51:09 UTC
Obil Que wrote:
Ransu Asanari wrote:
Adaahh Gee wrote:
We've been here before, is it a two year cycle?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=61741


Man I still find website articles referring to "Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters" as the best ones.

Think of all the blogs/sites that are now going to be out of date once the names start changing again.

Maybe CCP should build and provide a find/replace file for the module tiercide to make it easier for external resource managers like EVE University WIki to make updates?


There's a common ground to be had.

Special naming sucks when you want to find a processor upgrade and search for "proc" on the market and find

Co-Processer I
Nanoelectrical Co-Processer 1
Quantum Co-Processor 1
Co-Processer II

but not

Nanomechanical CPU Enhancer I or
Photonic CPU Enhancer I

which are probably the meta item you want and now have to spend extra clicks to Info on the base model, variations, info, show market details. That is bad naming complexity with no value.

But I agree that something other than standard MMO prefix/suffix fare is desired.



I tend to look up "proc", then hit variations and use the compare tool to find the module with the stats that suit the job and budget for the task in hand. My main concern is that Eve will turn into a very "beige" game with everything named similarrly, all the ships balanced and all the NPC's pretty much the same (don't even get me started on Rogue drone loot removal and the adding of bounties to them)
Seismic Stan
Freebooted Junkworks
#59 - 2014-09-25 17:52:17 UTC
I understand the need for this balancing pass and adding usability and diversity is great, but to echo some of the comments already made, it's a shame that the character and flavour has to be expunged from the item names.

For example, missile launcher 'brands' like 'Arbalest', 'Limos', 'Malkuth' et al give a bit of depth for the low, low price of one word. Banishing them entirely seems a shame. Is there no way to retain some element of this character?

Also, 'ample'? Really? Perhaps I'm more of a misogynist than I realised, but that just makes me think of boobs.

EVE Online: The Text Adventure --- GameSkinny Correspondent --- Freebooted Blogger
Ryan Rs
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#60 - 2014-09-25 17:53:20 UTC
Please don't collapse all faction tackle into one meta level. Having multiple range / price points is very useful.

Currently the pricing for faction tackle works in a similar way to deadspace mods. Small boosts in performance command big price increases. It's not like the situation with named co-procs where everyone automatically goes for the meta 4. Please preserve multiple range / price points in faction tackle.