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Prototype: Dojos

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#401 - 2014-09-25 17:44:36 UTC
Ruric Thyase wrote:
That is not a LAW that is just a link to the evonline website. Please link this LAW to which you refer.

Also Baltec, no one is FORCING EVE to have these arenas. They were introduced on a test server less than 24 hours ago. The people here arguing with you are the people who are saying "We dont mind of this" or "We think this would be fun" I dont think there has been a single post on this thread to the tune of:

"YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT THESE CHANGES OR EVE IS FOREVER RUINED"

Compare and contrast...


If they add them to tranq then they will indeed be forced upon me.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#402 - 2014-09-25 17:46:05 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Anslo wrote:


You whine a lot about new ideas proposed for Eve. If you don't like them, maybe Eve is not the game for you?


If you want instanced arenas why don't you play one of the many many games that has them? Why force them into the one game that doesn't cater to them?


Because all must be assimilated by the Carebear Borg (CareBorg?)! Resistance is infantile!
Anslo
Scope Works
#403 - 2014-09-25 17:46:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Anslo wrote:


You whine a lot about new ideas proposed for Eve. If you don't like them, maybe Eve is not the game for you?


If you want instanced arenas why don't you play one of the many many games that has them? Why force them into the one game that doesn't cater to them?


I never said anything about whether I wanted something or not, now did I?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#404 - 2014-09-25 17:48:07 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


If they add them to tranq then they will indeed be forced upon me.


Then quit.
Ruric Thyase
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#405 - 2014-09-25 17:49:16 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


That grasping for straws is dumb. Non-consensual pvp is a founding, core principle. POSes aren't.

Everything in EVE should evolve WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK of it's core philosophy. Key points of that philosophy are :

-Universal Non-Consensual pvp in space (except in noob systems and the Sisters of EVE arc)

-Meaningful Death penalty (ie things can be actual destroyed)

-'Single Shard' universe (Chinese Eve notwithstanding)

As long as those 3 things aren't screwed with, we can talk about different additions or balance issues. But something that violates any aspect of the core goes right out. Dojos (as presented) are as bad a violation of the core philosophy of EVE online as would be isk and material transfers from Singularity to Tranquility or "plex for pvp invulnerability" would be.


Philosophy 1: (With exceptions)

Philosophy 2: (Except for dead bumped Titans)

Philosophy 3: (With exceptions)

And my favorite: NO Instanced Arenas (Except for Alliance Tournament and New Eden Open)

And I can't seem to find where CCP states what their underlying LAWS and core philosophies are... Ill keep looking though.

Also, if you're so against these dojos and youre resting so much on this universal PvP motif, where is your thread demanding Universal Non-consensual PvP in noob systems, the thread about bomb launchers in high sec, of and the one about mobile bubbles outside of nullsec.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#406 - 2014-09-25 17:49:33 UTC
Anslo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Anslo wrote:


You whine a lot about new ideas proposed for Eve. If you don't like them, maybe Eve is not the game for you?


If you want instanced arenas why don't you play one of the many many games that has them? Why force them into the one game that doesn't cater to them?


I never said anything about whether I wanted something or not, now did I?


Just pointing out that EVE has differentiated itself from every other MMO by not doing arenas. Many people do come here for that very reason.
Escobar Slim III
YOLOSWAGHASHTAGDOLLARBILLZSWIMMINGPOOLICECREAMS
#407 - 2014-09-25 17:49:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Escobar Slim III
I THINK SOME PEOPLE WHO DONT EVEN HAVE SCANS CANT COMPLAIN THAT CCP WANT TO CHANGE TO MAKE SOME GAMETIME QUICKER AND FOR PVP 1V1 IN SPECIAL SPACE? IS NOT MUCH TOO ASK.

PERSONALLY THINK AS LONG AS THE SHIP IS SAFE FROM PENETRATION AND THE TIMER IS FOR TWO DAYS TO GIVE CHANCE TO MOVE. WILL HAVE TO SEE HARD DATA FIRST.

I COULD SEE POTENTIAL OF THIS BEING AS A TRAVELLING CIRCUS TYPE PVP FEATURE OF LIKE A WHEEL OF DEATH WHERE BIKE RIDERS GET CHANCE TO ENTER THAT WHEEL THING BUT INSTEAD OF BIKES THEY PVP SHIPS AND THEN THEY FIGHT WITH 1V1 AND NO LINKS AND STUFF LIKE NO HONORE FIGHTERS WHO COME IN AND DESTRYOY 1V1 PVP AND SOLO.

SO POTENTIALLY GOOD YES BUT NEED TO SEE.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#408 - 2014-09-25 17:50:40 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Anslo wrote:


You whine a lot about new ideas proposed for Eve. If you don't like them, maybe Eve is not the game for you?


If you want instanced arenas why don't you play one of the many many games that has them? Why force them into the one game that doesn't cater to them?


Because all must be assimilated by the Carebear Borg (CareBorg?)! Resistance is infantile!

Big smile

I really think you'll find a large number of non CareBorgs using them as well, just for different reasons. They'd actually be pretty handy for certain things.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#409 - 2014-09-25 17:51:30 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


If they add them to tranq then they will indeed be forced upon me.


Then quit.


I wonder, why are you even here?

You want to change everything about EVE to be just like every other game out there. Why beg and plead to change EVE rather than play those games?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#410 - 2014-09-25 17:51:34 UTC
Ruric Thyase wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


That grasping for straws is dumb. Non-consensual pvp is a founding, core principle. POSes aren't.

Everything in EVE should evolve WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK of it's core philosophy. Key points of that philosophy are :

-Universal Non-Consensual pvp in space (except in noob systems and the Sisters of EVE arc)

-Meaningful Death penalty (ie things can be actual destroyed)

-'Single Shard' universe (Chinese Eve notwithstanding)

As long as those 3 things aren't screwed with, we can talk about different additions or balance issues. But something that violates any aspect of the core goes right out. Dojos (as presented) are as bad a violation of the core philosophy of EVE online as would be isk and material transfers from Singularity to Tranquility or "plex for pvp invulnerability" would be.


Philosophy 1: (With exceptions)

Philosophy 2: (Except for dead bumped Titans)

Philosophy 3: (With exceptions)

And my favorite: NO Instanced Arenas (Except for Alliance Tournament and New Eden Open)

And I can't seem to find where CCP states what their underlying LAWS and core philosophies are... Ill keep looking though.

Also, if you're so against these dojos and youre resting so much on this universal PvP motif, where is your thread demanding Universal Non-consensual PvP in noob systems, the thread about bomb launchers in high sec, of and the one about mobile bubbles outside of nullsec.




i get it, i really do. you don't care about what EVE is.

Well, i do, sorry.
Ruric Thyase
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#411 - 2014-09-25 17:51:49 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Ruric Thyase wrote:
That is not a LAW that is just a link to the evonline website. Please link this LAW to which you refer.

Also Baltec, no one is FORCING EVE to have these arenas. They were introduced on a test server less than 24 hours ago. The people here arguing with you are the people who are saying "We dont mind of this" or "We think this would be fun" I dont think there has been a single post on this thread to the tune of:

"YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT THESE CHANGES OR EVE IS FOREVER RUINED"

Compare and contrast...


If they add them to tranq then they will indeed be forced upon me.



Explain, because that made no sense. Content that is available that you choose not to use is not content that is forced upon you. Its an option, not a demand.

I don't do reverse engineering or inventions, but that doesn't mean I despise people who do t2 and t3 production, I in no way feel they are "Forced" upon me and I in no way want to limit others from pursuing that method of gameplay. If they have fun with it, great. I find my fun in EVE elsewhere.
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#412 - 2014-09-25 17:51:57 UTC
Escobar Slim III wrote:
I THINK SOME PEOPLE WHO DONT EVEN HAVE SCANS CANT COMPLAIN THAT CCP WANT TO CHANGE TO MAKE SOME GAMETIME QUICKER AND FOR PVP 1V1 IN SPECIAL SPACE? IS NOT MUCH TOO ASK.

PERSONALLY THINK AS LONG AS THE SHIP IS SAFE FROM PENETRATION AND THE TIMER IS FOR TWO DAYS TO GIVE CHANCE TO MOVE. WILL HAVE TO SEE HARD DATA FIRST.

I COULD SEE POTENTIAL OF THIS BEING AS A TRAVELLING CIRCUS TYPE PVP FEATURE OF LIKE A WHEEL OF DEATH WHERE BIKE RIDERS GET CHANCE TO ENTER THAT WHEEL THING BUT INSTEAD OF BIKES THEY PVP SHIPS AND THEN THEY FIGHT WITH 1V1 AND NO LINKS AND STUFF LIKE NO HONORE FIGHTERS WHO COME IN AND DESTRYOY 1V1 PVP AND SOLO.

SO POTENTIALLY GOOD YES BUT NEED TO SEE.

Why are you shouting?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#413 - 2014-09-25 17:52:47 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:


I really think you'll find a large number of non CareBorgs using them as well, just for different reasons. They'd actually be pretty handy for certain things.


Thats the fear. Why go hunting for solo pvp when you can push a button to get it?
ArchAngael
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#414 - 2014-09-25 17:53:24 UTC
My main concern with this idea is that the more popular it is, the more Eve suffers. It seems like a lose/lose to me.

Let's say a corp of people log on for the night. They have to choose: do they go for a roam or fill up the dojo with ships and have a deathmatch or whatever. If they choose the former, that's one less roaming fleet out for others to encounter and have a good fight. Those other roaming fleets encounter fewer other fleets because they are all busy dojo'ing, so they decide to dojo too. Sooner or later, everyone is dojo'ing and no one is roaming. If anyone wants to roam, they soon get bored with it because there is no one to fight. Feature success, but a major cornerstone of Eve has been effectively eliminated.

Alternatively, they might not be very fun, so no one really uses them outside rare/specialized circumstances. In that case, the time spent developing them could have been spent better elsewhere.

Read my Pod and Planet fiction entry at http://blog.fenjaylabs.com/2015/11/12/the-best-sport-pod-and-planet-entry/

Take my Eve Online Ship identification quiz at http://fenjaylabs.com/EveShipIdQuiz
Bethamene
Laziness in Overdrive
#415 - 2014-09-25 17:53:40 UTC
didn't read the whole thread but maybe if the dojo dropped the deadspace pockets (and let the people in them know it) as soon as they were reinforced, therefore letting people scan the participants down, then we'd have the right amount of sand in the sandbox?
Anslo
Scope Works
#416 - 2014-09-25 17:53:57 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Anslo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Anslo wrote:


You whine a lot about new ideas proposed for Eve. If you don't like them, maybe Eve is not the game for you?


If you want instanced arenas why don't you play one of the many many games that has them? Why force them into the one game that doesn't cater to them?


I never said anything about whether I wanted something or not, now did I?


Just pointing out that EVE has differentiated itself from every other MMO by not doing arenas. Many people do come here for that very reason.

And I'm just pointing out that staying somewhere with features, proposed or otherwise, that you dislike seems a bit silly.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#417 - 2014-09-25 17:54:43 UTC
Bethamene wrote:
didn't read the whole thread but maybe if the dojo dropped the deadspace pockets (and let the people in them know it) as soon as they were reinforced, therefore letting people scan the participants down, then we'd have the right amount of sand in the sandbox?


This would be acceptable.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#418 - 2014-09-25 17:54:54 UTC
Ruric Thyase wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Ruric Thyase wrote:
That is not a LAW that is just a link to the evonline website. Please link this LAW to which you refer.

Also Baltec, no one is FORCING EVE to have these arenas. They were introduced on a test server less than 24 hours ago. The people here arguing with you are the people who are saying "We dont mind of this" or "We think this would be fun" I dont think there has been a single post on this thread to the tune of:

"YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT THESE CHANGES OR EVE IS FOREVER RUINED"

Compare and contrast...


If they add them to tranq then they will indeed be forced upon me.



Explain, because that made no sense. Content that is available that you choose not to use is not content that is forced upon you. Its an option, not a demand.

I don't do reverse engineering or inventions, but that doesn't mean I despise people who do t2 and t3 production, I in no way feel they are "Forced" upon me and I in no way want to limit others from pursuing that method of gameplay. If they have fun with it, great. I find my fun in EVE elsewhere.


In every game that has added arenas the same exact thing has happened.

People join the arena, fewer people are out to fight with so more people join the arena to get the fights. The more this goes on the more end up in the arena. Soon you wind up with near everyone in the arena pushing a button for instant pvp and pvp in the wider world is dead.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#419 - 2014-09-25 17:56:51 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Worst Case Scenario: The new pilots you get won't be completely clueless about combat fittings, and anxiety ridden about losing a ship... thus making your job of showing them how to actually PVP in EVE a little bit easier.
Less time lost explaining the basics, less whining, less irritation for you.
While I can't echo baltec's doom and gloom because I haven't seen this happen in person, do you really believe the worst case outcome of the combination of EVE's legendarily risk-averse playerbase and risk-free PvP is an improvement of the risk-based PvP?

People will inevitably crowd towards the easier modes a game has to offer, while I haven't seen it in MMOGs (due to not having played them), I have in pretty much every non-MMOG I've played. Starting people off in those easier modes is also a hilariously terrible way to try to get them into the harder ones.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#420 - 2014-09-25 17:57:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
baltec1 wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:


I really think you'll find a large number of non CareBorgs using them as well, just for different reasons. They'd actually be pretty handy for certain things.


Thats the fear. Why go hunting for solo pvp when you can push a button to get it?

Well, because there is no tangible reward for it in an arena... and you are also limited to the ships and fittings the arena offers you... and the fact that there is a boundary to deal with... and you can't use tactical warp in/warp outs.

There are a large number of reasons why people that actually are looking for PVP will only use the arenas for certain things, as a test bed and perhaps as a training arena for new pilots.

It will always lack the depth, variety, and reward of actual PVP... they are simply a convenient way to do certain (limited) things.

Don't get me wrong, I quite see what you are worried about. But I think it would be fairly simple to avoid those potential pitfalls.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.