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Prototype: Dojos

First post First post First post
Author
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#361 - 2014-09-25 17:10:17 UTC
Bamboozlement wrote:


Cloaked people in safes aren't subject to anything, are you new or something?


cloaked people in space can't shoot guns. They can in 'Dojospace'.

Ais Hellia
The Deliberate Forces
HYDRA RELOADED
#362 - 2014-09-25 17:11:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Ais Hellia
Sydon Audeles wrote:

Dojo doesn't do anything about implants either, and someone found to have boundary violated could be easily DQ'd after verifying with CREST if you didn't notice during the fight.


Well it should be able to check implants maybe putting implants inside too and then you will have them in your cargo at the arena and your current implants if there are any destroyed at the moment of teleportation
And the team clean sweeping the opponent 100-0 should be disqualified if 1 of their frigate pilots violated the boundary? really?
that's why you need full set of tools at least on sisi to have fights run smoothly and in decent time spans
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#363 - 2014-09-25 17:15:45 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

All we ask is to be allowed to backstab you.


Yeah, go and reinforce the dojo, or have 10 catalysts ready as i land on the dojo and attempt to enter it. Or join the dojo corp, rise to position of power, then steal the frigates out of the dojo.



Quote:
Fights need to be un-screw-with-able. We strongly feel that if what’s supposed to be a “fair” match given a set of predetermined rules is thrown off course by outside influence, it invalidates the whole premise.


This is the part we are not happy about. This should never happen in EVE.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#364 - 2014-09-25 17:16:28 UTC
While respecting both sides of the debate, I have to point out a few things.

Putting what is essentially a training room on the live server is NOT inherently a bad thing... nor is it a "Un-EVE" thing. It is simply another tool.

The only clear mistake is this concept (quite forgivable as it is a rough prototype) is pitching it as combat taking place in a secure dead space area.

If instead it was pitched as an "In game combat simulator" where a "virtual battle" was taking place there wouldn't be quite the huge wave of concern right now. To make this seem correct the two pilots who enter into actual combat in this manner should disappear from local.

That way, for all intents and purposes, the pilots involved are in a "simulator pod" somewhere.... like an arcade in space... and are essentially considered out of normal bounds much like anyone else who is docked.

It's a subtle change of mindset, but there it is.

The advantages to having a combat simulator/training room on the live server are immense, and the only folk that will likely use it will be folks either training noobs.... or noobs themselves trying out combat for the first time.

Now if you are simply giving it a thumbs down because you don't want the population of combat experienced pilots to go up... well... that fairly lame my friend.

If you dislike this because it challenges the stark, harsh, consequence filled nature of EVE... seriously... relax. You're not going to find people abandoning their normal activities in EVE to take part in an endless series of 5 minute matches. Big smile And even if some did devote themselves to this, they aren't the pilots you'd find in space making a contribution to the game anyway. They'd be the pilots that never leave the noob systems (or undock period), so you've lost nothing.

If you think about it, it's fairly silly that something similar hasn't been part of EVE since the beginning... as it only makes sense to have a method available (on the live server) where you can try out different fits and tactics in a combat situation that isn't constantly prone to outside interference. It simply doesn't make good sense to NOT do this.

So just think of this as a training/combat simulator on board that station, an arcade within a game if you will. Eventually your sphincter will return to normal. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#365 - 2014-09-25 17:17:27 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Bamboozlement wrote:


Thanks, I was using your logic.


Again you use that word while demonstrating a lack of it.


Uh, you are not very smart, since I'm in a good mood I'll explain slowly;

- You asked for something stupid like being able to gank a dojo, while the point of the dojo is to have fair and controlled fight

- I asked for something stupid like being able to get the API of a character in game while the point of having an API is to only give it to people (you think) you can trust.

I can go even slower if it's still hard for you to understand.

Domanique Altares wrote:
Bamboozlement wrote:
logic.


There you go using that word again.

One day you'll figure out what it means, and you'll probably stop posting.


And instead of proving me wrong you post this? When I call you out on something I also explain why you are wrong, I don't just spout my opinion.

Stick to facts and arguments, if you can of course, I'm a professional internet argue-master. Cool

I have a Ph.D

Ais Hellia
The Deliberate Forces
HYDRA RELOADED
#366 - 2014-09-25 17:17:59 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Bamboozlement wrote:


Cloaked people in safes aren't subject to anything, are you new or something?


cloaked people in space can't shoot guns. They can in 'Dojospace'.



they can only shoot things that can shoot them back

cloak is a single person instance - deal with it
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#367 - 2014-09-25 17:19:44 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Bamboozlement wrote:


Cloaked people in safes aren't subject to anything, are you new or something?


cloaked people in space can't shoot guns. They can in 'Dojospace'.



My point is, your idea of people can be ganked everywhere is wrong.

Remember this is a sandbox there is no good way to play, as shown by the "blue donut" in null sec. Bear

I have a Ph.D

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#368 - 2014-09-25 17:20:18 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

All we ask is to be allowed to backstab you.


Yeah, go and reinforce the dojo, or have 10 catalysts ready as i land on the dojo and attempt to enter it. Or join the dojo corp, rise to position of power, then steal the frigates out of the dojo.



Quote:
Fights need to be un-screw-with-able. We strongly feel that if what’s supposed to be a “fair” match given a set of predetermined rules is thrown off course by outside influence, it invalidates the whole premise.


This is the part we are not happy about. This should never happen in EVE.

Baltec1, respect, but the popularity of the tournaments we all enjoy says otherwise. We enjoy those on a very regular basis, and the same logic that necessitates their isolationist nature holds true for this situation as well.

Competition and training in 5 minute matches isn't going to harm the harsh nature of EVE in the slightest... other than to perhaps raise the general quality of pilot you meet in combat.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#369 - 2014-09-25 17:21:28 UTC
Bamboozlement wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Bamboozlement wrote:


Thanks, I was using your logic.


Again you use that word while demonstrating a lack of it.


Uh, you are not very smart, since I'm in a good mood I'll explain slowly;

- You asked for something stupid like being able to gank a dojo, while the point of the dojo is to have fair and controlled fight

- I asked for something stupid like being able to get the API of a character in game while the point of having an API is to only give it to people (you think) you can trust.

I can go even slower if it's still hard for you to understand.



You still don't grasp that this game is one in which while you are undocked and in space shooting at another ship you are open to attack from other ships. This idea flies in the face of this core aspect of the game and reduces options that I want to take.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#370 - 2014-09-25 17:21:50 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

All we ask is to be allowed to backstab you.


Yeah, go and reinforce the dojo, or have 10 catalysts ready as i land on the dojo and attempt to enter it. Or join the dojo corp, rise to position of power, then steal the frigates out of the dojo.



Quote:
Fights need to be un-screw-with-able. We strongly feel that if what’s supposed to be a “fair” match given a set of predetermined rules is thrown off course by outside influence, it invalidates the whole premise.


This is the part we are not happy about. This should never happen in EVE.


Exactly.

NO ship in space on TQ should be "un-screw-with-able", not even the one I'm sitting in that I did 10 hours of incursions to afford (*pats Machariel like a favorite pet*).

The core concept of EVE means something (to people who actually care about EVE). You don't screw that up in even minor ways because people are too lazy to scan out a wormhole to find an empty system to screw around in unmolested.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#371 - 2014-09-25 17:22:07 UTC
Bamboozlement wrote:


Stick to facts and arguments,


It's a fact that you don't know what logic is. You keep posting all the proof I need to back my arguments with every reply.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#372 - 2014-09-25 17:23:33 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Ranger 1 wrote:

Baltec1, respect, but the popularity of the tournaments we all enjoy says otherwise. We enjoy those on a very regular basis, and the same logic that necessitates their isolationist nature holds true for this situation as well.

Competition and training in 5 minute matches isn't going to harm the harsh nature of EVE in the slightest... other than to perhaps raise the general quality of pilot you meet in combat.


Gotta disagree. I can take the tool as something cool and handy for running your own competitions but I cannot back something that will effectively instance you from the rest of EVE and stop people from messing with you. Thats before we go into all of the ways we can abuse this thing.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#373 - 2014-09-25 17:24:34 UTC
Ais Hellia wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Bamboozlement wrote:


Cloaked people in safes aren't subject to anything, are you new or something?


cloaked people in space can't shoot guns. They can in 'Dojospace'.



they can only shoot things that can shoot them back

cloak is a single person instance - deal with it

that's the dumbest thing iv read today by a large margin
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#374 - 2014-09-25 17:24:39 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

You still don't grasp that this game is one in which while you are undocked and in space shooting at another ship you are open to attack from other ships. This idea flies in the face of this core aspect of the game and reduces options that I want to take.


And then stuff like AT, NEO and solo pvp videos happened, and people liked it.

Bad POS management is a core aspect of the game, I won't cry when CCP fix it.

Deal with it and HTFU.

I have a Ph.D

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#375 - 2014-09-25 17:24:51 UTC
Bamboozlement wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Bamboozlement wrote:


Cloaked people in safes aren't subject to anything, are you new or something?


cloaked people in space can't shoot guns. They can in 'Dojospace'.



My point is, your idea of people can be ganked everywhere is wrong.

Remember this is a sandbox there is no good way to play, as shown by the "blue donut" in null sec. Bear


allow me to rephrase then. Everyone who can have a physical affect on someone else in space on tranquility should be subject to the underlying LAW of EVE Online space flight ie "a ship in space can never be safe from unwanted pvp".

The same reason why Tech3s become scannable is the reason why these "unscannable deadspace pockets" should not exist.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#376 - 2014-09-25 17:26:38 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
If instead it was pitched as an "In game combat simulator" where a "virtual battle" was taking place there wouldn't be quite the huge wave of concern right now. To make this seem correct the two pilots who enter into actual combat in this manner should disappear from local.
No, it should involve actual ships being destroyed, at least that way my industrial activities will be unaffected, maybe even boosted if lots of people engage in Dota-in-space.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment

Ruric Thyase
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#377 - 2014-09-25 17:27:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Bamboozlement wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Bamboozlement wrote:


Thanks, I was using your logic.


Again you use that word while demonstrating a lack of it.


Uh, you are not very smart, since I'm in a good mood I'll explain slowly;

- You asked for something stupid like being able to gank a dojo, while the point of the dojo is to have fair and controlled fight

- I asked for something stupid like being able to get the API of a character in game while the point of having an API is to only give it to people (you think) you can trust.

I can go even slower if it's still hard for you to understand.



You still don't grasp that this game is one in which while you are undocked and in space shooting at another ship you are open to attack from other ships. This idea flies in the face of this core aspect of the game and reduces options that I want to take.



Bold added by me.

This is why I can't give much credibility to your posts. That and you and bamboozle have been fairly rude to one another.

If you can have YOUR unfair fights, why can I have MY fair fights. Whose entitlement do we have to bow to? Why can't we have both?
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#378 - 2014-09-25 17:27:54 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Bamboozlement wrote:


Stick to facts and arguments,


It's a fact that you don't know what logic is. You keep posting all the proof I need to back my arguments with every reply.


Again, instead of "highlighting" why I'm presumably wrong you keep posting your opinion on how I'm wrong because you said so.

I wonder why PBear

I have a Ph.D

Ruric Thyase
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#379 - 2014-09-25 17:28:41 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Bamboozlement wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Bamboozlement wrote:


Cloaked people in safes aren't subject to anything, are you new or something?


cloaked people in space can't shoot guns. They can in 'Dojospace'.



My point is, your idea of people can be ganked everywhere is wrong.

Remember this is a sandbox there is no good way to play, as shown by the "blue donut" in null sec. Bear


allow me to rephrase then. Everyone who can have a physical affect on someone else in space on tranquility should be subject to the underlying LAW of EVE Online space flight ie "a ship in space can never be safe from unwanted pvp".

The same reason why Tech3s become scannable is the reason why these "unscannable deadspace pockets" should not exist.



Please provide source of this LAW
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#380 - 2014-09-25 17:30:21 UTC
Ruric Thyase wrote:



If you can have YOUR unfair fights, why can I have MY fair fights. Whose entitlement do we have to bow to? Why can't we have both?


We do have both right now. You can run 1v1s and I can backstab you and vice versa. This removes my option to backstab you (and adds a bunch of underhand uses a few of which I pointed out)