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High Sec Hauling/Mining Kills - TY CCP for No Protection

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#721 - 2014-08-31 16:31:07 UTC
Demonfist wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Demonfist wrote:
yes, and if after DT every day entire corridors of concord were spawned we'd have free reign to peacefully transport things for the whole day.
That's exactly why it doesn't happen (nor would it actually work that way).

so give us a choice of not changing that. because it could start happening. :]
You have access to the exact same tools as everybody else, it's your own fault if you can't find the toolbox.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#722 - 2014-08-31 16:31:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Demonfist wrote:
when eve has 30,000 people online? yes. yes it does.
No. Come up with a better argument because that one is just idiotic.

Oh and
Quote:
so give us a choice of not changing that. because it could start happening.
…you already have a choice.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#723 - 2014-08-31 16:33:12 UTC
Demonfist wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Demonfist wrote:

because not every player of eve is a member of a 20,000 member alliance that can pull support out of it's rectum at a moments notice?


Because you need 20,000 people to have 2-3 logi support youRoll

when eve has 30,000 people online? yes. yes it does.


You just want to be a victim all your life don't you?
Demonfist
New Eden Capsuleer College
Higher Education
#724 - 2014-08-31 16:33:24 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Demonfist wrote:
having people willing to join is.
So that was a pretty nonsensical red herring then, and we're back at the original question: they attacked you with a fleet, so why is it so bad to have a fleet of your own for protection?

it's not bad. we can have a game where nothing moves without a fleet of escorts. supply will start to dry up, prices will skyrocket and eventually even the gankers will start to cry. my point is is that really the eve we want to have?

eBil Tycoon > we're more like megacapitalistic psychotic space cowboys with raging epeens and 3% real girls.
Demonfist
New Eden Capsuleer College
Higher Education
#725 - 2014-08-31 16:34:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Demonfist wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Demonfist wrote:

because not every player of eve is a member of a 20,000 member alliance that can pull support out of it's rectum at a moments notice?


Because you need 20,000 people to have 2-3 logi support youRoll

when eve has 30,000 people online? yes. yes it does.


You just want to be a victim all your life don't you?

no. only up to the point i break and go frank castle on them.

eBil Tycoon > we're more like megacapitalistic psychotic space cowboys with raging epeens and 3% real girls.
Dave Stark
#726 - 2014-08-31 16:34:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Demonfist wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Demonfist wrote:

that might work if they hadn't shown a willingness to throw more than 2 dozen ships at targets at a time. the question is is that really what we want eve to evolve into? every freighter needing logi escorts to trump waves of gankers? is that the image you want new players to see around them daily? retention rates would be abysmal, even compared to how horrific they already are.


They attacked you with a fleet, so why is it so bad to have a fleet of your own for protection?

because not every player of eve is a member of a 20,000 member alliance that can pull support out of it's rectum at a moments notice?


and?
you're not playing a single player game. just because they're not part of your alliance doesn't mean you can't be in a fleet with them.

these excuses are getting flimsier and flimsier.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#727 - 2014-08-31 16:35:25 UTC
Demonfist wrote:
it's not bad.
Good. So everything is pretty much as it should be then.

Quote:
supply will start to dry up, prices will skyrocket and eventually even the gankers will start to cry.
Why would any of that happen?

Quote:
my point is is that really the eve we want to have?
It would be a lot more balanced, that's for sure so yes, why not?
Demonfist
New Eden Capsuleer College
Higher Education
#728 - 2014-08-31 16:38:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Demonfist
Tippia wrote:
Demonfist wrote:
it's not bad.
Good. So everything is pretty much as it should be then.

[quote]supply will start to dry up, prices will skyrocket and eventually even the gankers will start to cry.
Why would any of that happen?
you don't understand how supply and demand works, obviously. so here i'll explain it. when it takes more effort for people to start transporting stuff, less people will. when less people do, less stuff is available. when less stuff is available, the price goes up, because there aren't less people wanting it. if you want to force people to bring support fleets to make the economy work that's fine and dandy, just don't ***** about paying the price for your own mess later.

the next time PLEXes go up another 100million, factor in the cost associated with ganking making that happen. merchants aren't going to eat the cost of that freighter you just sank, they're going to pass it along to you the consumer.

eBil Tycoon > we're more like megacapitalistic psychotic space cowboys with raging epeens and 3% real girls.
Dave Stark
#729 - 2014-08-31 16:41:28 UTC
Demonfist wrote:
you don't understand how supply and demand works, obviously. so here i'll explain it. when it takes more effort for people to start transporting stuff, less people will. when less people do, less stuff is available. when less stuff is available, the price goes up, because there aren't less people wanting it. if you want to force people to bring support fleets to make the economy work that's fine and dandy, just don't ***** about paying the price for your own mess later.


that might be true, if people had to transport a minimum of like 5bn isk of stuff per trip and were always profitable to gank.

unfortunately, that isn't the case and your argument falls flat on it's face.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#730 - 2014-08-31 16:42:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Demonfist wrote:
you don't understand how supply and demand works, obviously.
You have no argument, obviously, since you have to use fallacies to fill in the gaps in order to try (and fail) to stay in the conversation.

Quote:
when it takes more effort for people to start transporting stuff, less people will. when less people do, less stuff is available. when less stuff is available, the price goes up
…so more people start doing it, so supply goes up and prices go back down again. So if you're going to accuse people of not understanding something, make sure you've actually thought through what the effects are that you are desperately hoping for.

And of course, that's all assuming that you need more effort to transport stuff, and that less stuff would be transported, which is based on… oh… pretty much nothing as well.

Quote:
if you want to force people to bring support fleets
…which no-one is doing.
Demonfist
New Eden Capsuleer College
Higher Education
#731 - 2014-08-31 16:42:58 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Demonfist wrote:
you don't understand how supply and demand works, obviously. so here i'll explain it. when it takes more effort for people to start transporting stuff, less people will. when less people do, less stuff is available. when less stuff is available, the price goes up, because there aren't less people wanting it. if you want to force people to bring support fleets to make the economy work that's fine and dandy, just don't ***** about paying the price for your own mess later.


that might be true, if people had to transport a minimum of like 5bn isk of stuff per trip and were always profitable to gank.

unfortunately, that isn't the case and your argument falls flat on it's face.

using junk 10 mil isk ships to take down a freighter is never unprofitable. see above post about costs being passed along.

eBil Tycoon > we're more like megacapitalistic psychotic space cowboys with raging epeens and 3% real girls.
Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#732 - 2014-08-31 16:43:23 UTC
Tippia wrote:
stuff

Good morning, Tippia how are you?

Bacon makes us stronger
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#733 - 2014-08-31 16:44:00 UTC
Demonfist wrote:
using junk 10 mil isk ships to take down a freighter is never unprofitable.
Incorrect.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#734 - 2014-08-31 16:46:28 UTC
Demonfist wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Demonfist wrote:
it's not bad.
Good. So everything is pretty much as it should be then.

[quote]supply will start to dry up, prices will skyrocket and eventually even the gankers will start to cry.
Why would any of that happen?
you don't understand how supply and demand works, obviously. so here i'll explain it. when it takes more effort for people to start transporting stuff, less people will. when less people do, less stuff is available. when less stuff is available, the price goes up, because there aren't less people wanting it. if you want to force people to bring support fleets to make the economy work that's fine and dandy, just don't ***** about paying the price for your own mess later.

the next time PLEXes go up another 100million, factor in the cost associated with ganking making that happen. merchants aren't going to eat the cost of that freighter you just sank, they're going to pass it along to you the consumer.


Plex have nothing to do with ganking.
Demonfist
New Eden Capsuleer College
Higher Education
#735 - 2014-08-31 16:46:37 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Demonfist wrote:
using junk 10 mil isk ships to take down a freighter is never unprofitable.
Incorrect.

you're costing someone else 700million at a cost to yourself of 10million. are you really not that bright or simply a troll?

eBil Tycoon > we're more like megacapitalistic psychotic space cowboys with raging epeens and 3% real girls.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#736 - 2014-08-31 16:47:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Demonfist wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Demonfist wrote:
you don't understand how supply and demand works, obviously. so here i'll explain it. when it takes more effort for people to start transporting stuff, less people will. when less people do, less stuff is available. when less stuff is available, the price goes up, because there aren't less people wanting it. if you want to force people to bring support fleets to make the economy work that's fine and dandy, just don't ***** about paying the price for your own mess later.


that might be true, if people had to transport a minimum of like 5bn isk of stuff per trip and were always profitable to gank.

unfortunately, that isn't the case and your argument falls flat on it's face.

using junk 10 mil isk ships to take down a freighter is never unprofitable. see above post about costs being passed along.
You're wrong, you're forgetting to take the loot fairy into account, and she is an evil female dog.

If none of the expensive stuff drops the gankers are in the red iskwise, the only green is on their killboard. The only profit in this scenario is indirect, and only if the gankers manage to sell a replacement ship to their victim.

Quote:
you're costing someone else 700million at a cost to yourself of 10million. are you really not that bright or simply a troll?
Except in the case of a freighter it's not one 10M isk ship, it's in the tens if you're using T2 Catalysts. If you're using Talos' or 'Nados the cost ramps up even further.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Demonfist
New Eden Capsuleer College
Higher Education
#737 - 2014-08-31 16:47:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Demonfist wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Demonfist wrote:
it's not bad.
Good. So everything is pretty much as it should be then.

[quote]supply will start to dry up, prices will skyrocket and eventually even the gankers will start to cry.
Why would any of that happen?
you don't understand how supply and demand works, obviously. so here i'll explain it. when it takes more effort for people to start transporting stuff, less people will. when less people do, less stuff is available. when less stuff is available, the price goes up, because there aren't less people wanting it. if you want to force people to bring support fleets to make the economy work that's fine and dandy, just don't ***** about paying the price for your own mess later.

the next time PLEXes go up another 100million, factor in the cost associated with ganking making that happen. merchants aren't going to eat the cost of that freighter you just sank, they're going to pass it along to you the consumer.


Plex have nothing to do with ganking.

PLEX are the yardstick of the eve economy. when ganking takes a toll it's price will shift.

eBil Tycoon > we're more like megacapitalistic psychotic space cowboys with raging epeens and 3% real girls.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#738 - 2014-08-31 16:47:54 UTC
Demonfist wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Demonfist wrote:
using junk 10 mil isk ships to take down a freighter is never unprofitable.
Incorrect.

you're costing someone else 700million at a cost to yourself of 10million. are you really not that bright or simply a troll?


Show me a freighter that only took 10 mil to bring down.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#739 - 2014-08-31 16:48:41 UTC
Demonfist wrote:

PLEX are the yardstick of the eve economy. when ganking takes a toll it's price will shift.


No it wont. PLEX demand has nothing to do with ganking at all.
Demonfist
New Eden Capsuleer College
Higher Education
#740 - 2014-08-31 16:48:49 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Demonfist wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Demonfist wrote:
you don't understand how supply and demand works, obviously. so here i'll explain it. when it takes more effort for people to start transporting stuff, less people will. when less people do, less stuff is available. when less stuff is available, the price goes up, because there aren't less people wanting it. if you want to force people to bring support fleets to make the economy work that's fine and dandy, just don't ***** about paying the price for your own mess later.


that might be true, if people had to transport a minimum of like 5bn isk of stuff per trip and were always profitable to gank.

unfortunately, that isn't the case and your argument falls flat on it's face.

using junk 10 mil isk ships to take down a freighter is never unprofitable. see above post about costs being passed along.
You're wrong, you're forgetting to take the loot fairy into account, and she is an evil female dog.

If none of the expensive stuff drops the gankers are in the red iskwise, the only green is on their killboard. The only profit in this scenario is indirect, and only if the gankers manage to sell a replacement ship to their victim.


this assumes that you need to take any of the contents of the ship in order for killing it to be worthwhile, which isn't how things are in eve. costing the other person is also a motivation.

eBil Tycoon > we're more like megacapitalistic psychotic space cowboys with raging epeens and 3% real girls.