These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

High Sec Hauling/Mining Kills - TY CCP for No Protection

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#661 - 2014-08-31 11:11:09 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Because he paid a price for that privilege. I was thinking of some 500 million ISK per shot. Maybe less, maybe more. That could be debated.

But, to your question: Why should someone lose his ship just because he's been outnumbered? Specially since he can be outnumbered by someone whose only effort was to buy ISBoxer and pay several accounts to CCP, which is very literally a way to pay for win.


You honestly think a fleet shouldn't be able to kill one semi afk guy with no tank or situational awareness?


If he can press the button before being dead, then he was not semi-afk nor lacked situational awareness... and if the fleet can't kill a guy semi-afk and no idea of what's going on before he can hit the button, well... how's that the guy's fault?

But i will reverse your special case question: why should someone die after tanking to 100% of his ship capability, stay 100% aware and YET be outnumbered by a guy with a ISBOxer?


Because the other ganker put in more planning and effort than the "victim".

Your plan would screw up a lot of fleets doing other activities just so little Jimmy can run around with an I win mod. Hell I used to pvp in haulers, I have tanked small fleets with them and driven them off grid. What you want is a fail safe I win mod that will 100% protect you from entire fleets. No, you can have that overpowered monstrosity.


If you want to catch litle jimmy, wardec him first. That will render the button useless as you will not get a criminal flag for attacking him. And who knows -maybe at 500 million a pop, neutral jimmy just may prefer to lose his ship and let CONCORD deal with you for free, authomatically and completely fail-safely.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#662 - 2014-08-31 11:14:35 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


If you want to catch litle jimmy, wardec him first.

Oh hey this guy has 300 mil in an untanked frigate, I'll pirate this ship. *clicks wardec, you have 24 hours to wait* Oh wait he docked 23 hours and 59 minutes before I could engage...
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

That will render the button useless as you will not get a criminal flag for attacking him. And who knows -maybe at 500 million a pop, neutral jimmy just may prefer to lose his ship and let CONCORD deal with you for free, authomatically and completely fail-safely.


You just killed the entire pirate profession and made NPC hauling 100% safe. You broke EVE badly.
Dave Stark
#663 - 2014-08-31 11:15:35 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


If you want to catch litle jimmy, wardec him first.

Oh hey this guy has 300 mil in an untanked frigate, I'll pirate this ship. *clicks wardec, you have 24 hours to wait* Oh wait he docked 23 hours and 59 minutes before I could engage...


wrong. you failed to wardec little jimmy because he's in the NPC corp.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#664 - 2014-08-31 11:18:51 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#665 - 2014-08-31 11:20:33 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
But i will reverse your special case question: why should someone die after tanking to 100% of his ship capability, stay 100% aware and YET be outnumbered by a guy with a ISBOxer?
I'll bite.

Firstly because one ship is always going to be outnumbered by more than one ship, regardless of the mechanism of providing those numbers; it's the pretty much the definition of the word Roll
outnumber (ˌaʊtˈnʌmbə)
vb
1. (tr) to exceed in number

Secondly because nothing, except getting blapped by Concord for certain offences in highsec, is 100% guaranteed in Eve, including safety. Nor should it be.

If you want guaranteed safety, you're playing the wrong game.


If you read carefully, and understood what I wrote, you will notice how the system I proposed just doubles that of CONCORD, but with even less power.

It is not authomatic; it will not oneshot some ships; it will not destroy pods; it costs a lot of money to use; and it will not be of use in any situation where the agressors would not die to CONCORD just one second later.

The only advantage is that the resist guarantees the survival of the prey if he can press the button fast enough. Yet it's not a "I win" button, rather a "I survive" button.

And yet a second gank fleet could alpha the victim even with CONCORD around... Blink
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#666 - 2014-08-31 11:21:04 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

If you want to catch litle jimmy, wardec him first.


No.

Not just no, but **** no. You do not get to just eliminate other methods of PvP, to leave the single most ineffective one remaining.

God, the entitlement is sickening.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#667 - 2014-08-31 11:25:50 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
It is not authomatic;
Spoken like a true bot-aspirant; the world breaks down into the black and white of afk and not, and anything which requires the immense burden of actually being at the keyboard represents the highest mastery of internet spaceships.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Luukje
The Vendetta Mercenaries
Vendetta Mercenary Group
#668 - 2014-08-31 11:27:15 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Not sure if you have been following, but I suggested that gank victims get 60 seconds of immunity from bumping so they can fly off.


In other words, I can render my Freighter perfectly safe by shooting it with a noobship.

Why should someone shooting you make you suddenly incorporeal?

Again, Bumping is not a crime in New Eden. Remember, this is a legal system where vigilante retribution is legal, mass murder of non-capsuleers is either ignored or encouraged, etc.


Not sure what "safe" means - the invulnerability would start once CONCORD arrives, at which point your ship is supposed to be "safe." (note that you could still be shot).

And the fact that bumping is not in general a crime does not mean that when bumping is used to achieve the exact same effect as warp scrambling (which is, and everyone agrees should be a crime), that it should not be treated as a crime.



bumping =/= scrambling.
YOUR inability to play the game makes you see it as such, but believe me there are TONS of ways to prevent you getting in that spot in the first place, and if you do get bumped, there are still numerous ways to get urself safe, though these require you to think logically and use ur brain; something allot of the carebears refuse to do as they want handholding levels of safety. seriously, go play my little pony adventures if you really want to make high sec into the handholding place you want it to be. CCP are very clear; youre never 100% safe, however if you use the tools you've been given you could be pretty damn safe to the level where ganking wouldnt be all that viable. its the lazy/bad/dumb people we thrive on, not the ones with a brain.
Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
#669 - 2014-08-31 11:27:44 UTC
Wow guys. Not only did you all take the bait, you also gulped down the line, the fishing pole, and half of the boat.

This is a perfect example of trolling at it's finest. Good job Indahmawar Fazmarai. 12/10.

Big smile



They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake.

**This IS my main so STFU.
Dave Stark
#670 - 2014-08-31 11:28:54 UTC
Belt Scout wrote:
Wow guys. Not only did you all take the bait, you also gulped down the line, the fishing pole, and half of the boat.

This is a perfect example of trolling at it's finest. Good job Indahmawar Fazmarai. 12/10.

Big smile





the problem is, you have to take the bait lest CCP actually start considering some of these delusions.
Pepper Swift
Perkone
Caldari State
#671 - 2014-08-31 11:29:30 UTC
Why are we still discusion this tropic

What I need most.. is a day between Saturday and Sunday...

If life gives you melons, you might be dyslexic
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#672 - 2014-08-31 11:30:38 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Belt Scout wrote:
Wow guys. Not only did you all take the bait, you also gulped down the line, the fishing pole, and half of the boat.

This is a perfect example of trolling at it's finest. Good job Indahmawar Fazmarai. 12/10.

Big smile





the problem is, you have to take the bait lest CCP actually start considering some of these delusions.


Not only that, but when you have "trolled" so well that people can't tell the difference between the trolling and the genuine shitposting, who are actually trolling?

Never go full ******.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#673 - 2014-08-31 11:31:55 UTC
Pepper Swift wrote:
Why are we still discusion this tropic


I know right? Anti suicide ganking agitators are like a cancer of EVE.Lol
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#674 - 2014-08-31 11:32:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


If you read carefully, and understood what I wrote, you will notice how the system I proposed just doubles that of CONCORD, but with even less power.

It is not authomatic; it will not oneshot some ships; it will not destroy pods; it costs a lot of money to use; and it will not be of use in any situation where the agressors would not die to CONCORD just one second later.

The only advantage is that the resist guarantees the survival of the prey if he can press the button fast enough. Yet it's not a "I win" button, rather a "I survive" button.

And yet a second gank fleet could alpha the victim even with CONCORD around... Blink

I read what you wrote, I understood it too. At a basic level it's press button, pay money, receive a temporary Polaris resist profile, which is basically ISK tanking.
No, just no.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Nitchiu
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#675 - 2014-08-31 11:33:15 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


The only advantage is that the resist guarantees the survival of the prey if he can press the button fast enough. Yet it's not a "I win" button, rather a "I survive" button.

And yet a second gank fleet could alpha the victim even with CONCORD around... Blink



In Eve I survive is the definition of I win.

Now here's a couple of scenarios where your idea fails.

1.) I have wardecced a corp. I get an alt to attack me getting the I win button then proceed to kill my war target in a completly unpreventable way.

2.) I shoot myself with an alt. Press button steal someone's can or loot someone's wreck from a gank. I am invulnerable to those who would try to stop me.

And yes you could find solutions to those issues but you would cause more and more and make the game even more confusing for those poor newbies who can't figure out how to put a tank on a freighter.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#676 - 2014-08-31 11:33:33 UTC
Belt Scout wrote:
Wow guys. Not only did you all take the bait, you also gulped down the line, the fishing pole, and half of the boat.

This is a perfect example of trolling at it's finest. Good job Indahmawar Fazmarai. 12/10.

Big smile





We have learned that you must beat down every bad idea, no matter how stupid, lest CCP take it seriously.
Luukje
The Vendetta Mercenaries
Vendetta Mercenary Group
#677 - 2014-08-31 11:35:46 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
But i will reverse your special case question: why should someone die after tanking to 100% of his ship capability, stay 100% aware and YET be outnumbered by a guy with a ISBOxer?
I'll bite.

Firstly because one ship is always going to be outnumbered by more than one ship, regardless of the mechanism of providing those numbers; it's the pretty much the definition of the word Roll
outnumber (ˌaʊtˈnʌmbə)
vb
1. (tr) to exceed in number

Secondly because nothing, except getting blapped by Concord for certain offences in highsec, is 100% guaranteed in Eve, including safety. Nor should it be.

If you want guaranteed safety, you're playing the wrong game.


If you read carefully, and understood what I wrote, you will notice how the system I proposed just doubles that of CONCORD, but with even less power.

It is not authomatic; it will not oneshot some ships; it will not destroy pods; it costs a lot of money to use; and it will not be of use in any situation where the agressors would not die to CONCORD just one second later.

The only advantage is that the resist guarantees the survival of the prey if he can press the button fast enough. Yet it's not a "I win" button, rather a "I survive" button.

And yet a second gank fleet could alpha the victim even with CONCORD around... Blink



seriously, someone who lets himself get bumped deserves to be ******* shot into pieces. youre wanting an i-win button for people who are shite at the game. STAPH IT YOU FOOL.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#678 - 2014-08-31 11:36:14 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


If you want to catch litle jimmy, wardec him first.

Oh hey this guy has 300 mil in an untanked frigate, I'll pirate this ship. *clicks wardec, you have 24 hours to wait* Oh wait he docked 23 hours and 59 minutes before I could engage...
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

That will render the button useless as you will not get a criminal flag for attacking him. And who knows -maybe at 500 million a pop, neutral jimmy just may prefer to lose his ship and let CONCORD deal with you for free, authomatically and completely fail-safely.


You just killed the entire pirate profession and made NPC hauling 100% safe. You broke EVE badly.


Why? The only difference with CONCORD is that the victim may actually survive the first attack. A second fleet still can alpha him right under the noses of CONCORD.

And then, back to where this whole discussion started:

Complete and unavoidable waste of your effort caused by the action of the adversary should be a possibility both for agressors and defenders. So far, only the defenders take that chance. As I said above, that's OK with CCP and they will not do anything to change the game, so you all can rest assured that I am just wasting my time and effort.
Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
#679 - 2014-08-31 11:40:57 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Belt Scout wrote:
Wow guys. Not only did you all take the bait, you also gulped down the line, the fishing pole, and half of the boat.

This is a perfect example of trolling at it's finest. Good job Indahmawar Fazmarai. 12/10.

Big smile





We have learned that you must beat down every bad idea, no matter how stupid, lest CCP take it seriously.


Yeah, you're def right about this. Our game gets broken for all the wrong reasons when these things slip under the radar.

.

They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake.

**This IS my main so STFU.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#680 - 2014-08-31 11:56:55 UTC
Belt Scout wrote:
Wow guys. Not only did you all take the bait, you also gulped down the line, the fishing pole, and half of the boat.

This is a perfect example of trolling at it's finest. Good job Indahmawar Fazmarai. 12/10.

Big smile

nope. genuine carebear.