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High Sec Hauling/Mining Kills - TY CCP for No Protection

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#641 - 2014-08-31 10:05:23 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Good heavens no.

This game needs *less* NPC handholding, not more.


Read my post again and turn off the grrr carebears grrr this time. It is LESS hand-holding than CONCORD as it must be manually triggered.


And?

I mean, unless you are proposing that CONCORD itself be removed to make way for your module, you are still adding even more hand holding to the game, and even more safety to highsec.

And both of those are things that must be avoided at any cost.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#642 - 2014-08-31 10:08:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Cancel Align NOW
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

Use conditions: system security must be above 0.5. Player security status must be above 0.0.
Trigger condition: someone has locked the player, has opened fire on him and has triggered a criminal flag on himself.
Trigger: manual activation.
Environmental effects: 99.9% resists to player. Any player who earns a criminal flag after attacking the player is 100% scrambled. Effects last for 10 seconds.
NPC spawn (RT-1 seconds after activation, where RT = CONCORD response time): FoF mines. One mine is spawned for each agressor and inflicts 150,000 alpha damage on it. The subsequent CONCORD spawn will wipe any survivors.


First:
Why should a single pilot have an item that requires no effort whatsoever to use which gives them a guaranteed win against an organized group of 10+ pilots specifically kitted out to beat them? (being at your keyboard isn't "effort" it's "playing the game")

Second:
Gimme an alt (or 5) in a newb ship and I'll be abusing the hell out of this.

Even ignoring the hilarious abuse guaranteed to come from your ridiculous magic invulnerability button, it's entirely unnecessary.



Please, tell me how would you abuse the idea, I may have overlooked something. Question


I log in with x number of alts and position them on a pipe gate, I use alt 1 (in an imparior) to attack alt 2 in a tornado. Alt 2 now has a gank machine with 99% resists ready to hit anything it can alpha until concord arrive.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#643 - 2014-08-31 10:12:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Also This vv
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Use conditions: system security must be above 0.5. Player security status must be above 0.0.
Trigger condition: someone has locked the player, has opened fire on him and has triggered a criminal flag on himself.
Trigger: manual activation.
Environmental effects: 99.9% resists to player. Any player who earns a criminal flag after attacking the player is 100% scrambled. Effects last for 10 seconds.
NPC spawn (RT-1 seconds after activation, where RT = CONCORD response time): FoF mines. One mine is spawned for each agressor and inflicts 150,000 alpha damage on it. The subsequent CONCORD spawn will wipe any survivors.

I think that adresses all your questions. It's a single use defensive device whose effect is to protect the victim (but only in hisec and only if the agressors are perfoming an ilegal attack) and then pins and destroys any agressor until CONCORD comes and finishes the job.

Obviously, a second gang could still finish the victim even with CONCORD present, but then nobody is 100% safe in New Eden...

Special case: the victim is alphaed. That doesn't matter, as the pod still can trigger the response and avenge his loss, then warp out before the 99.9% resists fade. Technically, that would lead to the gankers being killmailed by a pod, which would be a sort of a hilarious honor badge for everyone involved. Lol

(Lore mumbojumbo: sleeping response teams would be stationed around each planet/moon and would be "microcynoed" in by a "ground station" responding to the same lore system that sends in CONCORD)

(Coding of the feature: the foundation woud be the CONCORD code with additional exceptions, but all effects are already ingame. Art assets would imply the mines themselves as the rest of the system would not be displayed)

Is flat out Heresy to the Gods of H.T.F.U and a care bare will be executed for it.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#644 - 2014-08-31 10:19:02 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

Use conditions: system security must be above 0.5. Player security status must be above 0.0.
Trigger condition: someone has locked the player, has opened fire on him and has triggered a criminal flag on himself.
Trigger: manual activation.
Environmental effects: 99.9% resists to player. Any player who earns a criminal flag after attacking the player is 100% scrambled. Effects last for 10 seconds.
NPC spawn (RT-1 seconds after activation, where RT = CONCORD response time): FoF mines. One mine is spawned for each agressor and inflicts 150,000 alpha damage on it. The subsequent CONCORD spawn will wipe any survivors.


First:
Why should a single pilot have an item that requires no effort whatsoever to use which gives them a guaranteed win against an organized group of 10+ pilots specifically kitted out to beat them? (being at your keyboard isn't "effort" it's "playing the game")

Second:
Gimme an alt (or 5) in a newb ship and I'll be abusing the hell out of this.

Even ignoring the hilarious abuse guaranteed to come from your ridiculous magic invulnerability button, it's entirely unnecessary.



Please, tell me how would you abuse the idea, I may have overlooked something. Question


By using it to make my ship invulnerable in any number of situations where invulnerability is useful.

Now, go ahead and answer my question:
Why should a single pilot have an item that requires no effort whatsoever to use which gives them a guaranteed win against an organized group of 10+ pilots specifically kitted out to beat them? (being at your keyboard isn't "effort" it's "playing the game")

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#645 - 2014-08-31 10:21:19 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:

Why should a single pilot have an item that requires no effort whatsoever to use which gives them a guaranteed win against an organized group of 10+ pilots specifically kitted out to beat them? (being at your keyboard isn't "effort" it's "playing the game")


I got five million that says the answer will be either "because new players!" or some form of "you shouldn't force people to PvP if they don't want to".

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Dave Stark
#646 - 2014-08-31 10:22:00 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Good heavens no.

This game needs *less* NPC handholding, not more.


Read my post again and turn off the grrr carebears grrr this time. It is LESS hand-holding than CONCORD as it must be manually triggered.


your idea just promotes botting.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#647 - 2014-08-31 10:31:44 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

Use conditions: system security must be above 0.5. Player security status must be above 0.0.
Trigger condition: someone has locked the player, has opened fire on him and has triggered a criminal flag on himself.
Trigger: manual activation.
Environmental effects: 99.9% resists to player. Any player who earns a criminal flag after attacking the player is 100% scrambled. Effects last for 10 seconds.
NPC spawn (RT-1 seconds after activation, where RT = CONCORD response time): FoF mines. One mine is spawned for each agressor and inflicts 150,000 alpha damage on it. The subsequent CONCORD spawn will wipe any survivors.


First:
Why should a single pilot have an item that requires no effort whatsoever to use which gives them a guaranteed win against an organized group of 10+ pilots specifically kitted out to beat them? (being at your keyboard isn't "effort" it's "playing the game")

Second:
Gimme an alt (or 5) in a newb ship and I'll be abusing the hell out of this.

Even ignoring the hilarious abuse guaranteed to come from your ridiculous magic invulnerability button, it's entirely unnecessary.



Please, tell me how would you abuse the idea, I may have overlooked something. Question


I log in with x number of alts and position them on a pipe gate, I use alt 1 (in an imparior) to attack alt 2 in a tornado. Alt 2 now has a gank machine with 99% resists ready to hit anything it can alpha until concord arrive.


Safeguard to loophole 1: sequence is averted and effects are cancelled if the target gains a criminal flag.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#648 - 2014-08-31 10:33:10 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:

dear lord. i thought you were going to suggest an npc that does the work of players, which is bad enough. but this is ridiculous.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#649 - 2014-08-31 10:35:22 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
And again our two favorite nullsec supporters appear on the scene to troll and derail any thread that might suggest some kind of reasonable and fair level of protection for players in highsec.


your argument was beaten several times, and you had the opportunity to exit gracefully. that opportunity has expired. learn from this in the future.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#650 - 2014-08-31 10:39:33 UTC
It is amazing the amount of time people put into trying to get ganking nerfed over actually taking a minute to fit a tank and getting a friend to help them out.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#651 - 2014-08-31 10:46:16 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

Use conditions: system security must be above 0.5. Player security status must be above 0.0.
Trigger condition: someone has locked the player, has opened fire on him and has triggered a criminal flag on himself.
Trigger: manual activation.
Environmental effects: 99.9% resists to player. Any player who earns a criminal flag after attacking the player is 100% scrambled. Effects last for 10 seconds.
NPC spawn (RT-1 seconds after activation, where RT = CONCORD response time): FoF mines. One mine is spawned for each agressor and inflicts 150,000 alpha damage on it. The subsequent CONCORD spawn will wipe any survivors.


First:
Why should a single pilot have an item that requires no effort whatsoever to use which gives them a guaranteed win against an organized group of 10+ pilots specifically kitted out to beat them? (being at your keyboard isn't "effort" it's "playing the game")

Second:
Gimme an alt (or 5) in a newb ship and I'll be abusing the hell out of this.

Even ignoring the hilarious abuse guaranteed to come from your ridiculous magic invulnerability button, it's entirely unnecessary.



Please, tell me how would you abuse the idea, I may have overlooked something. Question


By using it to make my ship invulnerable in any number of situations where invulnerability is useful.

Now, go ahead and answer my question:
Why should a single pilot have an item that requires no effort whatsoever to use which gives them a guaranteed win against an organized group of 10+ pilots specifically kitted out to beat them? (being at your keyboard isn't "effort" it's "playing the game")


Because he paid a price for that privilege. I was thinking of some 500 million ISK per shot. Maybe less, maybe more. That could be debated.

But, to your question: Why should someone lose his ship just because he's been outnumbered? Specially since he can be outnumbered by someone whose only effort was to buy ISBoxer and pay several accounts to CCP, which is very literally a way to pay for win.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#652 - 2014-08-31 10:49:06 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Because he paid a price for that privilege. I was thinking of some 500 million ISK per shot. Maybe less, maybe more. That could be debated.

But, to your question: Why should someone lose his ship just because he's been outnumbered? Specially since he can be outnumbered by someone whose only effort was to buy ISBoxer and pay several accounts to CCP, which is very literally a way to pay for win.


You honestly think a fleet shouldn't be able to kill one semi afk guy with no tank or situational awareness?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#653 - 2014-08-31 10:52:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

Use conditions: system security must be above 0.5. Player security status must be above 0.0.
Trigger condition: someone has locked the player, has opened fire on him and has triggered a criminal flag on himself.
Trigger: manual activation.
Environmental effects: 99.9% resists to player. Any player who earns a criminal flag after attacking the player is 100% scrambled. Effects last for 10 seconds.
NPC spawn (RT-1 seconds after activation, where RT = CONCORD response time): FoF mines. One mine is spawned for each agressor and inflicts 150,000 alpha damage on it. The subsequent CONCORD spawn will wipe any survivors.


First:
Why should a single pilot have an item that requires no effort whatsoever to use which gives them a guaranteed win against an organized group of 10+ pilots specifically kitted out to beat them? (being at your keyboard isn't "effort" it's "playing the game")

Second:
Gimme an alt (or 5) in a newb ship and I'll be abusing the hell out of this.

Even ignoring the hilarious abuse guaranteed to come from your ridiculous magic invulnerability button, it's entirely unnecessary.



Please, tell me how would you abuse the idea, I may have overlooked something. Question


I log in with x number of alts and position them on a pipe gate, I use alt 1 (in an imparior) to attack alt 2 in a tornado. Alt 2 now has a gank machine with 99% resists ready to hit anything it can alpha until concord arrive.


Safeguard to loophole 1: sequence is averted and effects are cancelled if the target gains a criminal flag.
You do know that you can blap people without gaining a criminal flag right?

Your idea is terrible, exploitable, brings no value to the game and falls under the auspices of Malcanis' law.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Dave Stark
#654 - 2014-08-31 10:53:16 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Why should someone lose his ship just because he's been outnumbered?


this takes stupidity to a whole new level.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#655 - 2014-08-31 10:57:53 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Because he paid a price for that privilege. I was thinking of some 500 million ISK per shot. Maybe less, maybe more. That could be debated.

But, to your question: Why should someone lose his ship just because he's been outnumbered? Specially since he can be outnumbered by someone whose only effort was to buy ISBoxer and pay several accounts to CCP, which is very literally a way to pay for win.


You honestly think a fleet shouldn't be able to kill one semi afk guy with no tank or situational awareness?


If he can press the button before being dead, then he was not semi-afk nor lacked situational awareness... and if the fleet can't kill a guy semi-afk and no idea of what's going on before he can hit the button, well... how's that the guy's fault?

But i will reverse your special case question: why should someone die after tanking to 100% of his ship capability, stay 100% aware and YET be outnumbered by a guy with a ISBOxer?
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#656 - 2014-08-31 11:01:46 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Because he paid a price for that privilege. I was thinking of some 500 million ISK per shot. Maybe less, maybe more. That could be debated.

But, to your question: Why should someone lose his ship just because he's been outnumbered? Specially since he can be outnumbered by someone whose only effort was to buy ISBoxer and pay several accounts to CCP, which is very literally a way to pay for win.


You honestly think a fleet shouldn't be able to kill one semi afk guy with no tank or situational awareness?


If he can press the button before being dead, then he was not semi-afk nor lacked situational awareness... and if the fleet can't kill a guy semi-afk and no idea of what's going on before he can hit the button, well... how's that the guy's fault?

But i will reverse your special case question: why should someone die after tanking to 100% of his ship capability, stay 100% aware and YET be outnumbered by a guy with a ISBOxer?

Are you drunk?

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#657 - 2014-08-31 11:03:22 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Because he paid a price for that privilege. I was thinking of some 500 million ISK per shot. Maybe less, maybe more. That could be debated.

But, to your question: Why should someone lose his ship just because he's been outnumbered? Specially since he can be outnumbered by someone whose only effort was to buy ISBoxer and pay several accounts to CCP, which is very literally a way to pay for win.


You honestly think a fleet shouldn't be able to kill one semi afk guy with no tank or situational awareness?


If he can press the button before being dead, then he was not semi-afk nor lacked situational awareness... and if the fleet can't kill a guy semi-afk and no idea of what's going on before he can hit the button, well... how's that the guy's fault?

But i will reverse your special case question: why should someone die after tanking to 100% of his ship capability, stay 100% aware and YET be outnumbered by a guy with a ISBOxer?


Because the other ganker put in more planning and effort than the "victim".

Your plan would screw up a lot of fleets doing other activities just so little Jimmy can run around with an I win mod. Hell I used to pvp in haulers, I have tanked small fleets with them and driven them off grid. What you want is a fail safe I win mod that will 100% protect you from entire fleets. No, you cant have that overpowered monstrosity.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#658 - 2014-08-31 11:03:31 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Why should someone lose his ship just because he's been outnumbered?


this takes stupidity to a whole new level.


OK, you called me stupid, YOU WIN! Blink

(Now answer, why should outnumbering be a failproof tactic?)
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#659 - 2014-08-31 11:04:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
But i will reverse your special case question: why should someone die after tanking to 100% of his ship capability, stay 100% aware and YET be outnumbered by a guy with a ISBOxer?
I'll bite.

Firstly because one ship is always going to be outnumbered by more than one ship, regardless of the mechanism of providing those numbers; it's the pretty much the definition of the word Roll
outnumber (ˌaʊtˈnʌmbə)
vb
1. (tr) to exceed in number

Secondly because nothing, except getting blapped by Concord for certain offences in highsec, is 100% guaranteed in Eve, including safety. Nor should it be.

If you want guaranteed safety, you're playing the wrong game.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Dave Stark
#660 - 2014-08-31 11:10:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Why should someone lose his ship just because he's been outnumbered?


this takes stupidity to a whole new level.


OK, you called me stupid, YOU WIN! Blink

(Now answer, why should outnumbering be a failproof tactic?)


actually, I didn't call you stupid.

if, all other things being equal, the n+1 force can't beat 1 man, that means nobody will ever lose their ship.
now, take one second to consider the implication of no ships ever being lost in eve from this point on.
please tell me you see why your point is monumentally terrible?