These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

High Sec Hauling/Mining Kills - TY CCP for No Protection

First post First post
Author
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#541 - 2014-08-30 21:46:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
RubyPorto wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:

let's put it another way. there are two hypothetical players. the first chooses to embrace all the tools provided them by the game. let's call this player the absurdly courageous space hero, paragon of virtue and morality, ruler of all those in optimal range, or ACSHPVMRATOR for short

actually i'll just end the post here because i'm tired. let's just assume i finished the hypothetical and it was fantastic. if someone can modify the title of the courageous space hero so that it ends with -RAPTOR that'd be badass thanks


absurdly courageous space hero, paragon of virtue and morality, ruler of all those players traveling in optimal range

ACSHPVMRAPTOR

this is excellent as it can now be pronounced properly as ack-sh'p-voom-RAPTOR which is every bit as badass as predicted

Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
virm pasuul wrote:


Would you spend all your play time escorting someone day after day so you can ECM boost him when he needs it, maybe once in six months?

If the answer is "yes", CCP should hire you, you're the kind of sucker they're looking for when they ask players to bring friends to each and every non-PvP activity.


are you saying you're not as committed to expending as much effort on not getting ganked as a murder of ack-sh'p-voom-RAPTORs are prepared to expend to gank you
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#542 - 2014-08-30 21:47:26 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
virm pasuul wrote:
Falcon you are my new hero :)
Thank you for restoring my faith in CCP.

One argument that I never see the care bears never address is this:

It takes a lot of gankers to pull off the larger ganks. That means coordinating quite a few pilots to work together.
Why don't gank targets bring along an ECM friend or two to disrupt the ganks? One mediocre ECM pilot e.g. a Griffin pilot cancels out two ganker pilots. You only have to get half as many - realistically 1/3 or less - ECM friends working together to completely negate the gank. And the gankers still loose their ships.

If you are going to use resource comparisons as an argument that ganking is unbalanced you have to consider the number of people and pilots involved on each side of the gank. Any comparison this ignores this aspect is without foundation and in my opinion ( deliberately ) intellectually dishonest.


Would you spend all your play time escorting someone day after day so you can ECM boost him when he needs it, maybe once in six months?

If the answer is "yes", CCP should hire you, you're the kind of sucker they're looking for when they ask players to bring friends to each and every non-PvP activity.


Translation: "Can't be arsed, CCP please fix the game to defend carebears from something that might happen once in 6 months"

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#543 - 2014-08-30 21:49:35 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:


are you saying you're not as commited to expending as much effort on not getting ganked as a murder of ack-sh'p-voom-RAPTORs are prepared to expend to gank you


That's exactly what he's saying, which is par for the course for the kinds of folks we're talking about. The idea of playing a game is absurd to them, they honestly expect the developer to hand them an unfair advantage.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#544 - 2014-08-30 21:49:43 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Would you spend all your play time escorting someone day after day so you can ECM boost him when he needs it, maybe once in six months?

If the answer is "yes", CCP should hire you, you're the kind of sucker they're looking for when they ask players to bring friends to each and every non-PvP activity.


Hi Indah, not sure about your overall views but I'm responding just to your post here.

What you are describing is a known limitation to the amount of fun you can have as an escort, or a gank sabotager (note my clever use of avoiding a tired buzz word).


However, if there is the occasional shipment where the cargo is absurdly valuable, I think it makes sense to have a friend along to help you. I think webbing or scouting is a better investment than ECM or Logi.. but there are many strategies.

Also, "maybe once in six months" is an acceptable fail rate as a player in an MMO isn't it? We should all be so lucky to die ingloriously just twice a year..

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Paranoid Loyd
#545 - 2014-08-30 21:49:52 UTC
Heh, admits how exceedingly rare it is, yet still wants fix. Roll

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#546 - 2014-08-30 22:00:56 UTC
well you know... because of the children. And stuff. Did I mention children?
Do it for the bears goddammit! They need to afk in peace, not pieces.
It's absolutely absurd that they should have to put forth the rediculous amounts of effort needed to provide the necessary security to allow them to safely autopilot to their various destinations without fear of GREIFERS coming to RUIN thier enjoyment of the game they would be playing if they were'nt so busy watching netflix or any of the various other video channels that are far more important than watching to make sure their cargo arrives intact!
Anyone interfering with the timely and profitable delivery of their AFK cargo is obviously a basement dwelling sociopath who exists solely to ruin the game for their fellow players, and is in on the vast conspiracy to kill EVE due to AFK players unsubscribing. EVE IS DYING, PLZ HALP.

There, did I do that right? Do we need another take?

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

virm pasuul
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#547 - 2014-08-30 22:04:25 UTC
I think you nailed it first go.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#548 - 2014-08-30 22:05:31 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Would you spend all your play time escorting someone day after day so you can ECM boost him when he needs it, maybe once in six months?

If it's as common as the whiners consistently fail to demonstrate, then it should definitely be worth-while. After all, it's no different than spending time sitting in a station or at a safe in space, waiting for hours for your scout to find a good target that is headed your way.

But if it's as rare as once in six months that you even get any kind of reason to perhaps do something, then there's simply nothing that even remotely resembles something that, after a bottle of booze and after having lost your glasses on your way to (what you hoped were) the toilet, might be confused with a problem-lookalike.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#549 - 2014-08-30 22:07:22 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
well you know... because of the children. And stuff. Did I mention children?
Do it for the bears goddammit! They need to afk in peace, not pieces.
It's absolutely absurd that they should have to put forth the rediculous amounts of effort needed to provide the necessary security to allow them to safely autopilot to their various destinations without fear of GREIFERS coming to RUIN thier enjoyment of the game they would be playing if they were'nt so busy watching netflix or any of the various other video channels that are far more important than watching to make sure their cargo arrives intact!
Anyone interfering with the timely and profitable delivery of their AFK cargo is obviously a basement dwelling sociopath who exists solely to ruin the game for their fellow players, and is in on the vast conspiracy to kill EVE due to AFK players unsubscribing. EVE IS DYING, PLZ HALP.

There, did I do that right? Do we need another take?
This is why the forum needs sarcasm tags/font. Some poor deluded carebear is going to take this seriously.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Lugh Crow-Slave
#550 - 2014-08-30 22:11:34 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
well you know... because of the children. And stuff. Did I mention children?
Do it for the bears goddammit! They need to afk in peace, not pieces.
It's absolutely absurd that they should have to put forth the rediculous amounts of effort needed to provide the necessary security to allow them to safely autopilot to their various destinations without fear of GREIFERS coming to RUIN thier enjoyment of the game they would be playing if they were'nt so busy watching netflix or any of the various other video channels that are far more important than watching to make sure their cargo arrives intact!
Anyone interfering with the timely and profitable delivery of their AFK cargo is obviously a basement dwelling sociopath who exists solely to ruin the game for their fellow players, and is in on the vast conspiracy to kill EVE due to AFK players unsubscribing. EVE IS DYING, PLZ HALP.

There, did I do that right? Do we need another take?
This is why the forum needs sarcasm tags/font. Some poor deluded carebear is going to take this seriously.


They still would anyway they seem to have trouble seeing things from any other view point
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#551 - 2014-08-30 22:28:03 UTC
I'd be sorry if it weren't for the fact that reason doesn't work. Calm instruction doesn't work. Sympathetic nods and suggestions of how to not have it happen again doesn't work. Devs coming in and stating flat out that their approach doesn't work, doesn't work. Some people you simply cannot reach, no matter how hard you try.
Eventually you stop trying and become the bittervet that they all claim to be the root of the problem. No longer can you reach them en masse, so now your only recourse is to try to reach them individually.
Through violence.
Strangely enough this seems to work more in game than it does on the forums, as anonymous forum alt #523155 cannot experience the sudden loss of their battlecruiser, nor can they comprehend the means they could have employed to prevent the sudden loss of 60-150 odd million in ship and modules, whereas random bear #125459 can, especially once it's been spelled out to them.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#552 - 2014-08-30 22:36:35 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Would you spend all your play time escorting someone day after day so you can ECM boost him when he needs it, maybe once in six months?

If the answer is "yes", CCP should hire you, you're the kind of sucker they're looking for when they ask players to bring friends to each and every non-PvP activity.


Hi Indah, not sure about your overall views but I'm responding just to your post here.

What you are describing is a known limitation to the amount of fun you can have as an escort, or a gank sabotager (note my clever use of avoiding a tired buzz word).


However, if there is the occasional shipment where the cargo is absurdly valuable, I think it makes sense to have a friend along to help you. I think webbing or scouting is a better investment than ECM or Logi.. but there are many strategies.

Also, "maybe once in six months" is an acceptable fail rate as a player in an MMO isn't it? We should all be so lucky to die ingloriously just twice a year..


See, I don't know how often happen ganks.

The point is that defending another player would be very boring when he wasn't attacked, which as far as i know, it's the most usual occurence ingame. Most of the time most of the players are not ganked, hence the "once in six months" reference.

One of my pet concepts is that players should be allowed to use NPC for tasks whose opportunity cost is too high for a human player. Say, bringing NPC anti-gank right when you need it, for a price that compensates the loss inflicted on gankers. Would you spend a 500 millon one-shot NPC anti-gank to laugh at a flight of ganknados? Would you gank if you knew that X is known for using NPC anti-ganks? (These are rhetorical questions, btw)

Anyway, this is just a stupid debate since the start. CCP doesn't wants a game different than it is now. And if they could make a better game, they would be making it. Blink
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#553 - 2014-08-30 22:46:30 UTC
Defending another player IS very boring if you're not certain they are likely to be attacked. Scouting out a route and checking to see how dangerous it is via the various tools available is much easier. Bringing NPC's into the equation isn't really part of CCP's style, nor is it in line with how the game generally runs. Players defend against players, and more often than not that defense doesn't occur in the form of guns or ewar, it happens in the form of awareness and information gathering. It's MUCH easier to survive a trap that you never step foot into it than to try to plunge headfirst into one that you know is there. Let someone else try to tank the lawnmower, while you skirt around it and get to your destination. A scout is more useful than ewar and logi when it comes to this... just knowing where the trap is gives you a major advantage when it comes to not being violenced by it.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#554 - 2014-08-30 22:48:40 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
The point is that defending another player would be very boring when he wasn't attacked, which as far as i know, it's the most usual occurence ingame. Most of the time most of the players are not ganked, hence the "once in six months" reference.


People in EVE do huge amounts of boring things if the reward is high enough. Believe me, I ran a Jump Freighter service.

If HS haulers are unwilling to do this, either they believe that the reward isn't high enough (i.e. ganking is too rare to be bothered), or they're stupid. Especially since it only takes 1 friend or alt to keep you safe from any sized gank fleet.

Anyway, if nobody attempts to gank you because you're protected, OP ******* Successful.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#555 - 2014-08-30 22:55:15 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
[If HS haulers are unwilling to do this, either they believe that the reward isn't high enough (i.e. ganking is too rare to be bothered), or they're stupid. Especially since it only takes 1 friend or alt to keep you safe from any sized gank fleet.
They've also got the option of 3rd party haulers, set the collateral right and it's a win (isk wise) regardless of whether or not the load actually gets to its destination.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#556 - 2014-08-30 22:56:16 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Defending another player IS very boring if you're not certain they are likely to be attacked. Scouting out a route and checking to see how dangerous it is via the various tools available is much easier. Bringing NPC's into the equation isn't really part of CCP's style, nor is it in line with how the game generally runs. Players defend against players, and more often than not that defense doesn't occur in the form of guns or ewar, it happens in the form of awareness and information gathering. It's MUCH easier to survive a trap that you never step foot into it than to try to plunge headfirst into one that you know is there. Let someone else try to tank the lawnmower, while you skirt around it and get to your destination. A scout is more useful than ewar and logi when it comes to this... just knowing where the trap is gives you a major advantage when it comes to not being violenced by it.


This post brought to you by the Redundancy division of the department of redundancy, subsection in charge of things redundant. IE, bring a friend. Have him peek to see what is in next room. Don't die to things you don't have to encounter.

That is all, carry on. I'mma go to bed now, and my alcohol stream has too much blood in it.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Anal Canal
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#557 - 2014-08-30 23:48:44 UTC
Stay docked if you don't want to loose it.

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#558 - 2014-08-31 00:11:07 UTC
This thread reminds me of just how important a service gankers provide to the community.

Without gankers, we'd never have had this 28 pages of utter hilarity.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Capt Starfox
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#559 - 2014-08-31 00:47:47 UTC
I shot a hauler once, it was great. I started another account and brought in an IRL friend all because of that one hauler. That little guy helped Eve live.

Obligatory: Carebears don't know what F10 is? Seems legit.

Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet

Karl Jerr
Herzack Unit
#560 - 2014-08-31 01:12:53 UTC
Dying in high sec in a spacecraft designed to haul stuff into low/null sec cloaked isn't a gamesystem fail but a user one.
High sec isn't 100% safety, people in these forums say it often over time to understand this fact.
We are all responsible of our own mistakes in this game, it's even the part of the fun this game provide.